RE: Give or take a little (Full Version)

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SlyStone -> RE: Give or take a little (3/16/2007 8:52:57 PM)


"This was fairly well the thought that I had when I wrote my original reply.

It's the whole 'definition' thing all over again, "



I really didn't want to define it, just let people take it however they chose and react to it. Some people take it to objectively mean easier in terms of comparing the two contrasting roles and others take it to mean easier in terms of their own perspective, given their inherent orientation(s).







"You may be a state trooper, you might be a young Turk,
You may be the head of some big TV network,
You may be rich or poor, you may be blind or lame,
You may be living in another country under another name
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,"

Bob Dylan




SlyStone -> RE: Give or take a little (3/17/2007 9:06:48 AM)

And what do you mean by Turned-on?.... are you suggesting it in a sexual context?

t seems you equate Acts of Dominance and Submission as having an underlying sexual context.  Fact is alot of both are not of any sexual motivation that all.



Actually you don't have a clue what I think and this is a good example of people here jumping to conclusions as opposed to discussing issues.

First you ask a reasonable question and than before it can be answered, in fact in the same post as the questions, you reach your own conclusion and apply your own judgment.

In fact when I say I am turned on by something it could mean I am sexually turned on or intellectually turned on or emotionally turned or all fucking three at the same time depending on a given situation.

The post you quoted was in response to Aileen who said this:


"Plus it turns me on like you wouldn't believe.  I doubt any of that makes any sense."



I assumed she meant sexually as well as intellectually and emotionally but I could be wrong. because, of course, I  applied my own definition. It is impossible not to do so when reading a post or relating to each other in the outside world, we all bring our own definitions and perceptions to the table., it's just easier when talking to someone to ask; what exactly do you mean by that? not that we always do this.

And all we can do is try to understand and withhold judgment until we do. I say withhold judgment because in the end we all make judgments, even those who say they don't, especially those who say they don't. :)

The difference is that you first asked for an explanation and than answered your own question and then applied a judgment, so I guess you were trying understand my  point, you just jumped the gun in your eagerness to get to your own. I am  not saying I have not done the same thing, just pointing it out in this instance.




But you do bring up an interesting point so I ask these questions of anyone who would care to answer:


When you say you are turned on by something, what does that mean?

and

Do you always think of d/s in terms of  an expression of your sexuality?



tulinwl -> RE: Give or take a little (3/17/2007 9:15:38 AM)

I highly desire to submit, but it is much easier for me to control. That is why I do not want to be the top. I don't want to live an easy life - it is boring to me.



Aileen68 -> RE: Give or take a little (3/17/2007 9:18:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

The post you quoted was in response to Aileen who said this:


"Plus it turns me on like you wouldn't believe.  I doubt any of that makes any sense."



I assumed she meant sexually as well as intellectually and emotionally but I could be wrong. because, of course, I  applied my own definition. It is impossible not to do so when reading a post or relating to each other in the outside world, we all bring our own definitions and perceptions to the table., it's just easier when talking to someone to ask; what exactly do you mean by that? not that we always do this.



Yup...meant it sexually.  Emotions, intellect and sexuality are often times intertwined anyway. At least for me.



SlyStone -> RE: Give or take a little (3/17/2007 2:44:36 PM)

Yup...meant it sexually.  



In that case I am sorry to inform you that you may not be real.






This message sponsered by the Society for d/s One-way-ism, better known as OWI.





What are you changing?
Who do you think you're changing?
You can't change things, we're all stuck in our ways
It's like trying to clean the ocean
What do you think you can drain it?
Well it was poison and dry long before you came.

Jenny Lewis



velvetears -> RE: Give or take a little (3/17/2007 4:16:12 PM)

i think what comes easier is what comes more naturally to a person.  This would be a good question for switches since they do both - which they find harder and why.



Aileen68 -> RE: Give or take a little (3/18/2007 4:36:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

Yup...meant it sexually.  

In that case I am sorry to inform you that you may not be real.

This message sponsered by the Society for d/s One-way-ism, better known as OWI.


Damn...I knew I was just too good to be true.



Vendaval -> RE: Give or take a little (3/18/2007 4:40:35 AM)

The answer depends on the psychology of the person(s) involved
and the level of interaction between them.



lateralist1 -> RE: Give or take a little (3/18/2007 6:08:27 AM)

I found this a very interesting debate. It has helped me to rationalise why I want/need a D/s relationship.
I think people are very complicated. They often have more than one motivation for what they do.
I was sexually abused plus I am a woman brought up before the idea of feminism really affected socialisation.
Therefore I have always been sexually and socially submissive to men unless I was absolutely secure in a relationship. Then I become my natural dominant self.
At work I have always been dominant but frustrated by the fact that the people who had authority over me were not as able as I was. Since getting the sack I have been working towards my own business. That way I can have complete control.
Why am I dominant? Quite simply it is the only way I can be sure that my needs are met.
Being in a relationship with someone who cares enough for me to do it my way turns me on. Emotionally, interlectually and sexually because without all three it isn't as good.
When you have spent most of your life being totally abused and walked over by everyone you know the idea is strangely evocative.
So yes I need to be in control, to have someone do it my way, so I can be happy for the first time in my life.
That doesn't mean I won't care about that person if I ever find him. In fact I will love him to bits because he has given me what I need to be happy.
But of course I'm scared of trusting anyone because everyone I have ever trusted in my life has let me down.
Emotional and psychological damage such as that doesn't get healed overnight.
And no I can't and won't submit. I would kill myself first.
Oh and yes as a sadist I get turned on by being given consent to hurt someone.
And no that doesn't mean I want to take out my anger against the individuals who have hurt me on someone else.
Why on earth would I want to do that?
It would make me feel like an absolute heel.




SlyStone -> RE: Give or take a little (3/18/2007 6:26:32 AM)


i think what comes easier is what comes more naturally to a person.  


I think for some people you are correct. If you believe that you are what you are than the alternative is unimaginable and so it is beyond hard, it is impossible to even contemplate.

For other  I don't think it is so much about what comes naturally or what is a persons set orientation, rather I think what comes easier is the path of least resistance. Assuming many of us have both a dominant and a submissive orientation based on the given situation, it is likely that one orientation is easier than the other.  

What is interesting, that I have learned from this thread, is that many do not chose  the easiest path, they chose the harder and more challenging and more engaging path, so for them it is not a matter of what comes easier, but rather what brings them more personal fulfillment.

I like that.




KnightofMists -> RE: Give or take a little (3/18/2007 7:44:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

What is interesting, that I have learned from this thread, is that many do not chose  the easiest path, they chose the harder and more challenging and more engaging path, so for them it is not a matter of what comes easier, but rather what brings them more personal fulfillment.



Personal fulfillment is indeed a strong motivator.  It should be noted that just because it's easier or harder doesn't reflect less or more personal fulfillment.  Fortunate for those that personal fulfilllment is an easier path or is it that fortuate.  Is it to easy maybe?  Would they fail to obtain the fulfillment if the path was alittle harder.  Or... is it not a question of the path being easier or harder... but what is motivates a person to fulfillment.. regardless of easy or harder path.    then again... is it the journey or the destination?  For many they don't find something all that gratifying or fulfilling if it is handed to them on a silver plater.  They want to work at it.. feel themselves exert their energies to achieve some preconcieved goal.   In the end... it is rather complicated in that we all have different cocktail of things that will motivate us.   I think it is so not so much important to understand what is eaiser or harder path in a universal sense but more on a personal sense.  Understanding what personally motivates us... understanding if these motivators are healthy for us.. in that they are motivators to action that lead us towards personal fulfillments, happiness and the like as opposed to away from such things.



SlyStone -> RE: Give or take a little (3/18/2007 8:47:06 PM)

I think it is so not so much important to understand what is eaiser or harder path in a universal sense but more on a personal sense.  Understanding what personally motivates us... understanding if these motivators are healthy for us.. in that they are motivators to action that lead us towards personal fulfillments, happiness and the like as opposed to away from such things.





I agree with this thought.

It appears to me that some people here hold, what to me, is a somewhat romanticized notion of d/s based on the idea that most if not all submissive's are motivated by the need to please and the need to be controlled by a dominant. What often follows is the misguided perception that this is somehow a higher plane of expression of self that one must strive for if one is real.

In fact for many submissive's the act of submission is a means to an end, the end being the sexual release and or emotional fulfillment that results from the act of serving, not necessarily the act itself. Their submission is real, but they are motivated by different needs, which in the end is irrelevant because all motivations are obviated by attainment of the goal.

And coming from  different motivations/needs in no way diminishes the importance  of the act itself, because based on their orientation, in order for the sexual and or emotional fulfillment that they seek to be real and have meaning, their submission must be equally real and meaningful.

One thing is for sure, if we are talking about the expression of ones orientation and attainment of ones needs, than one particular way cannot be any better or more meaningful or more real than the other, only different.



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