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Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 2:46:58 AM

Quivver

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With the heated debate over CIAW and being married it appeared the consensus all agrees that it's ~ok~ if it's Poly. Yet what kept nagging at me what how one became Poly to begin with. What I mean is we all grow up in a society that pretty much promotes that Ark thing. I dont remember any 10 year old saying they intended to have multiple partners. So where or should I say how did the mind set of Poly begin?
My assumptions are that many past ~cheaters~ turned Poly for many reasons both good and bad. But as I said, those are just assumptions. Any thoughts?

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 3:38:38 AM

Vendaval

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Poly relationships are very common in other cultures,
for an overview, start with Wikipedia here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory

There is a side bar on the right titled "Close Relationships"
listing subjects from adultery to widowhood.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Quivver)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 4:40:02 AM

Lucius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

With the heated debate over CIAW and being married it appeared the consensus all agrees that it's ~ok~ if it's Poly. Yet what kept nagging at me what how one became Poly to begin with. What I mean is we all grow up in a society that pretty much promotes that Ark thing. I dont remember any 10 year old saying they intended to have multiple partners. So where or should I say how did the mind set of Poly begin?
My assumptions are that many past ~cheaters~ turned Poly for many reasons both good and bad. But as I said, those are just assumptions. Any thoughts?

Trying monogamy and finding it not to work. ("work" could be defined any number of ways, such as making people happy, making logical and ethical sense, etc. Whatever "works" for you.)

Watching other people (parents, friends, etc.) trying monogamy and seeing it not work. Sometimes, seeing it fail to work rather spectacularly.

Thinking about monogamy and not finding any point or sense to it.

Getting enough education to realize that most of the bullshit people say and believe about marriage, families, monogamy, etc. is simply, flatly false. For example, by learning that most (99.9%+ ) species of mammals and birds - even those who pair-bond for life - are not sexually monogamous, or learning that most Human cultures historically haven't been either.

Developing a moral compass - or maybe just a sense of inellectual integrity - and deciding to value truth based relationships over those that rely on deception or delusion.

Reading the Bible beyond that "Ark thing" (By the way, do you know how many of each animal species Noah supposedly brought on board the Ark? If you answer "two" go back and read the book) and realizing that if God really intended for each person to only have sex (or even to only MARRY) just one other person in their lifetime (or even at ONE time) there must be literally a hundred people busily violating that intention whom He could have corrected, some of whom seem to have had conversations with Him on a regular basis.

Reading Ambrose Bierce's definition of marriage, and thinking it through instead of just laughing.

I'm out of time or I could probably list more.

Lucius Alexander

House of the Palindromedary

(in reply to Quivver)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 4:44:25 AM

Vendaval

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Quivver, I would suggest asking this question over in the Poly Forum.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Quivver)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 5:06:07 AM

IrishMist

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What an interesting question Quivver.

quote:

What I mean is we all grow up in a society that pretty much promotes that Ark thing.

Not necessarily one that 'promotes' monogamy, but rather one that never discussed the alternatives.

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 6:35:56 AM

thetammyjo

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I used to pretend to be a bride -- I think lots of little girls in the USA do that. I was probably between the ages of 4 and 7 when I did this.

Whenever I did that, I pretended or thought of a boy or man I liked. It was always a different one and I never considered getting rid of the previous one to make room for the new one. I just held on to them in my imagination where they populated a fairly big house.

For me, poly feels very natural.

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(in reply to Quivver)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 6:48:06 AM

juliaoceania

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I think polygamy has been normal in our past, and is still normal in many cultures. We find in anthropology that certain cultural attributes lead often to different marriage styles. There are some cultures where polyandry is common, and some where polygyny is the norm. Polyandry is having more than one husband, and has been seen in cultures where there is a shortage of land, and because of this one must reduce family size.

Polygyny is having more than one wife, and it is seen when the opposite pattern is needed, and that is maximizing the amount of children that one will have.

Cultures will often hold on to a pattern of relating and mating because they are resistant to change, even when it is no longer a necessity to keep family size small or to maximize it.

_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Quivver)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 7:27:38 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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I think for most people we are all taught what social relationships we should have. I certainly never wanted monogamy growing up, I just didn't know it was a legitimate option for myself and figured I'd be a nice bohemian.

When we become adults, it really doesn't matter what values we are taught, we're going to do what we feel like doing best for ourselves. It might take a little longer, it might cause more guilt, but if a person wants to have sex or a relationship with someone, they will.

And I think it's pretty obvious at this point that lifelong monogamy is a choice that very few people make for themselves- no matter how much cultural values might try to teach us otherwise.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 7:35:33 AM

juliaoceania

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Monogamy is a choice I would have gladly made for myself. I am only half of the equation though.

I do agree, people have been failing to have fidelity in the most sexually represssive societies. If no one was commiting adultery during Bibical times then they wouldn't have needed to stone people, and some were willing to be stoned to get laid.

But it is interesting to note that just as many people can control themselves if they are motivated to and desire to, some are asexual, some have low sex drives, some people just do not really care about sex... still others are able to take care of these needs within a monogamous relationship.

In knowing people that have cheated, it seems that the thrill of someone new in their lives, the first rush of lust, the anticipation of seeing someone was just as big of a motivator as bumping fuzzies.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 9

RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 7:40:10 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Well it's also a myth to believe that poly = not having to control yourself. Cheating and badness towards a partner is just as possible in an open/poly relationship and it happens quite often. Now why people do THAT is another thread entirely.

IME cheating is almost always a sign of a deeper problem in a relationship, and rarely is the direct cause of the problem itself (though it does add plenty to the pile).

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to juliaoceania)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 8:00:33 AM

Lashra

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I have never seen anything wrong with poly. In fact I've always said (since childhood much to my Mothers dismay) that I wanted two husbands. Who knows? Maybe one day it will happen.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 8:01:11 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

...What I mean is we all grow up in a society that pretty much promotes that Ark thing. I dont remember any 10 year old saying they intended to have multiple partners. So where or should I say how did the mind set of Poly begin?...

this slave has heard at least one that is 15 say it. she was explaining how she had a boyfriend, and intended to have a girlfriend at the same time--that they both knew of it and were all good with it. this slave believes it comes from not being stifled by society's view of a "relationship" and being shown by example that many different relationship styles exist--there are actually parents out there that discuss these things with their wee ones, not in attempt at sex ed., but as an attempt at relationship ed.

quote:

My assumptions are that many past ~cheaters~ turned Poly for many reasons both good and bad. But as I said, those are just assumptions. Any thoughts?

we are friends with a couple who are not into WIITWD, but have intimate and sexual relationships with certain others. they have been married almost 30 years, high-school sweethearts--she said she wasn't into the poly thing but that he made it plain and clear that if she was going to be with him, she would have to accept that he wanted to have sex with other women. "swinging" is how they addressed the issue with regards to their relationship, and they made some ties with folks along the way that they have maintained an intimate relationship with.

(in reply to Quivver)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 8:02:48 AM

hisannabelle

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i've never been a particularly sexual person, really, at least not until my current relationship. i still think i'm probably capable of going months or years without sex and not missing it. so i don't think that poly has to = oversexed, or wanting sex all the time, or anything like that. monogamy, i've found, works just fine for me. what led me down the poly road was the desires of my dominant...and i've found that poly works pretty well, too. i've also managed to see some of the neuroses perpetuated by monogamy, and how exploring poly has helped me deal with those - but at the same time recognizing that polyamory isn't a perfect solution, either. there's lots of things to deal with and overcome, still. i don't personally think that one is better than the other, or that one is less or more emotionally or psychologically healthy or damaging than the other, and i think happy, well-adjusted, sexually, emotionally, and psychologically healthy people belong to both groups.

i should also add that in our case, i have never cheated but was cheated on in a past relationship. i don't know in his case if he has been cheated on, although i know he was party to cheating at least once, a long time ago.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 3/13/2007 8:05:19 AM >

(in reply to Quivver)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 11:26:05 AM

PlayfulOne

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I can't tell you why or how, just that I am. I have tried very hard in the past to be mono but there was always that space that couldn't be filled. My little one and I are both poly and fill completely at home in a triad. That is always an option should we find the right partner but if we never do and it is just the two of us thats fine also. The difference is instead of hiding it and tryng to be "normal" and mono, we accept that part of each other and go one about our lives.

Cheating was never an option for me in the past. Too many cheaters try and use, "I'm poly" as an excuse for their bad behavior.

K

< Message edited by PlayfulOne -- 3/13/2007 11:27:36 AM >

(in reply to hisannabelle)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 12:30:57 PM

DoctorDubious

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In my opinion,
the root cause of poly is testosterone
(which boosts libido in both men and women).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone

DD

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 15

RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 1:03:08 PM

mstrjx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorDubious

In my opinion,
the root cause of poly is testosterone
(which boosts libido in both men and women).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone

DD

Um, could you pass me some of that good shit, man?

Because apparently I've never tried any. I had two first dates scheduled for one night in college once, pretty far apart so they wouldn't overlap, and I think that was the last time I've had two women in my life at the same time. I had a hard enough time dealing with the internal pressure that caused me.

Well, there was the threesome, but that's not exactly the same.

To my detriment I have stayed in relationships too long such that it prevented me from being with someone I would have rather been with, but I remained faithful.

Since it's not life-threatening or illegal I guess poly isn't a hard limit for me, but I just don't see it happening.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to DoctorDubious)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 1:14:14 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

With the heated debate over CIAW and being married it appeared the consensus all agrees that it's ~ok~ if it's Poly. Yet what kept nagging at me what how one became Poly to begin with. What I mean is we all grow up in a society that pretty much promotes that Ark thing. I dont remember any 10 year old saying they intended to have multiple partners. So where or should I say how did the mind set of Poly begin?
My assumptions are that many past ~cheaters~ turned Poly for many reasons both good and bad. But as I said, those are just assumptions. Any thoughts?

People aren't naturally monogamist otherwise they would be monogamist, we in the weest, mostly due to Abramic religions and economic reasons have developed a culture that stresses monogamy but monogamy keeps breaking down because we are hardwired to be poly or at least want our cake and eat it.

There have been many psychological studies into human sexuality and many have observed males and females using tactics to cheat on their partners, it appears to be part of human behaviour and not an aberation, opportunity appears to be the most important motivation.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Quivver)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 2:14:17 PM

Quivver

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Great responces so far. ....

Personally I'm fence sitting on the subject, I dont consider either ~wrong~.
The reason I posted here rather then the Poly board was I hoped for more then the admitted Poly household's thoughts on the subject.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to meatcleaver)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 6:08:32 PM

Tristan

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quote:

Reading the Bible beyond that "Ark thing" (By the way, do you know how many of each animal species Noah supposedly brought on board the Ark? If you answer "two" go back and read the book)

If I remember my bible correctly, the good book never said how many animals of each kind Noah took with him. It only said god told him to take two of every kind, seven clean animals of every kind, and two unclean animals of every kind. I don't remember the Good Lord telling Noah how to mathamatically manipulate those numbers.

Tristan

(in reply to Quivver)

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RE: Origins of Poly? - 3/13/2007 6:50:00 PM

MasterGremlin

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Well, I don't know how Poly got started, but it has been around for along time. It is prevelant in the Old Testament and it is well documented in other cultures.
For me, it started early on. I was always one of those who liked two boyfriends at the same time and it was always my best friend who kept telling me "You can't do that". So, when I got older and learned that there were others that felt that way and lived that way I was pretty happy. I just happened to find a Master who also felt that way and W/we are currently dating a submissive who W/we hope, will work into something perminent.

I do have to say though that Poly is not an excuse for cheating. Poly is about honest loving relationships, not going behind someones back and lying to them.

Cordially,
minxy

< Message edited by MasterGremlin -- 3/13/2007 6:54:41 PM >

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 20

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