RE: Run Fred Run

RE: Run Fred Run (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/12/2007 9:39:44 AM)
I am not for taking away guns, to say I am totally against gun control would be a bit of a stretch. I do not think the mentally ill nor criminals should own them, but I am not against gun ownership even though I choose not to own one myself. It is not a hot button issue for me though either. I do not base my vote on it

Sinergy -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/12/2007 9:46:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 It not an absolute position among Liberals but you would be the first I have met. Sorry if you took it that way. I suggest you get out more. I have severe reservations against a government disarming the population. They give up their weapons, I will support making the citizenry give up theirs. I dont own a gun for my own reasons, but I do agree that gun control means using both hands. Sinergy

Sinergy -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/12/2007 9:54:56 AM)
Getting the thread back on topic, sternhand4, I suggest you pick up and read "American Theocracy," as well as some of the sources listed in the bibliography. Southern Democrats are an interesting group of people. As you are demanding sources, perhaps you would be willing to provide your source material stating that the Democratic Party abandoned what is now termed the Religious Right. From what I recall, the Democratic Party supported abortion, segregation, social welfare policies, etc., and the religious elements in this country left the party when they could not convince the party to swing their way and oppose those things. Technically, packing up one's Monopoly board in a snit and going home because everybody else wont play by one's rules is not synonymous with "being abandoned" by the people one is playing with. There was an article (in my dock bag) in Rolling Stone an issue or so ago which cited quotes for the religious right leaders making the statement that they would stay home and refuse to vote if the Republicans did not tow their line. According to American Theocracy, 40% of the Republican party are fundamentalist millenarians of various flavors. As I pointed out, do the math about what happens when 40% of their party refuses to vote next election. Sinergy

Vendaval -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/12/2007 9:59:43 AM)
Gun control is not my main issue either. I do think that background checks and proving you know how to safely use a firearm are good ideas. Guns are easily stolen, bought, traded and exchanged amongst the criminals. The police cannot be everywhere at once. If a person wishes to protect their family, home and place of business, then I advise taking one of the many training courses available at shooting ranges and learning the basic techniques and safety procedures. quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx I know many liberals who feel that gun control means using both hands. thompson

Sternhand4 -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/12/2007 11:01:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Getting the thread back on topic, sternhand4, I suggest you pick up and read "American Theocracy," as well as some of the sources listed in the bibliography. Southern Democrats are an interesting group of people. As you are demanding sources, perhaps you would be willing to provide your source material stating that the Democratic Party abandoned what is now termed the Religious Right. The dems abandoned religion ( this is not an absolute position ) for the most part. Or its percieved that way... The root of the Democratic Party's religious woes may not lie solely in the fact that they have been spurned by religious conservatives. Contributing to the Party's electoral misfortunes may be that even moderate citizens and voters view the Democrats as being unfriendly toward religion. The Democrats may have had a problem in recent elections, in other words, not just because their policy prescriptions were rejected by conservative Christians but also because a large portion of the electorate who may be sympathetic to Democratic positions was nevertheless turned off by a perceived hostility on the part of the Party toward religion, which most Americans see as a positive force with an important public role to fill. With a lot more info at. http://pewforum.org/docs/index.php?DocID=148 From what I recall, the Democratic Party supported abortion, segregation, social welfare policies, etc., and the religious elements in this country left the party when they could not convince the party to swing their way and oppose those things. Technically, packing up one's Monopoly board in a snit and going home because everybody else wont play by one's rules is not synonymous with "being abandoned" by the people one is playing with. There was an article (in my dock bag) in Rolling Stone an issue or so ago which cited quotes for the religious right leaders making the statement that they would stay home and refuse to vote if the Republicans did not tow their line. According to American Theocracy, 40% of the Republican party are fundamentalist millenarians of various flavors. As I pointed out, do the math about what happens when 40% of their party refuses to vote next election. I seriously doubt they will stay home with a potential supreme ct appointment in the balance. Sinergy

juliaoceania -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/12/2007 12:32:55 PM)
quote: The dems abandoned religion ( this is not an absolute position ) for the most part. Or its percieved that way... The Democratic South went Republican because of a couple of issues, one of which was racism. The Civil Rights Movement caused Dixiecrats to leave the party because Northern Democrats supported the Civil Rights Movement. I learned this in college but I thought I would back it up with a link http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3880/is_200304/ai_n9172996

Sternhand4 -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/12/2007 2:07:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: The dems abandoned religion ( this is not an absolute position ) for the most part. Or its percieved that way... The Democratic South went Republican because of a couple of issues, one of which was racism Always good to try and paint the republicans as racist.. But at that time as a party we were more in favor of civil rights than the dems Congressional Quarterly reported that, in the House of Representatives, 61% of Democrats (152 for, 96 against) voted for the Civil Rights Act as opposed to 80% of Republicans (138 for, 38 against). In the Senate, 69% of Democrats (46 for, 21 against) voted for the Act while 82% of Republicans did (27 for, 6 against). All southern Democrats voted against the Act. In his remarks upon signing the Civil Rights Act, President Lyndon Johnson praised Republicans for their "overwhelming majority." He did not offer similar praise to his own Democratic Party. Moreover, Senate Minority Leader Everett Dirksen, an Illinois Republican, collaborated with the White House and the Senate leadership of both parties to draft acceptable compromise amendments to end the southern Democrats' filibuster of the Act. It was Dirksen who often took to the Senate floor to declare, "This is an idea whose time has come. It will not be denied." Dirksen's greatest triumph earned him the Leadership Conference of Civil Rights Award, presented by then-NAACP Chairman Roy Wilkins, for his remarkable civil rights leadership. The Civil Rights Movement caused Dixiecrats to leave the party because Northern Democrats supported the Civil Rights Movement. Actually the dems became Dixiecrats and switched back to dems when they lost in 1948. Strom Thurmond became the first to leave the dems in 1964, 16 years later. But the Dixiecrat rebellion mattered mostly because of what it signified _ that Southern white voters and politicians were in no way prepared to accept the gathering revolution in U.S. civil rights laws and that their adherence to segregationist principles outweighed their loyalty to the Democratic Party. True, the South in those days was so solidly Democratic that the Dixiecrats _ including Thurmond _ returned to the party fold after their 1948 revolt. But in 1964, Thurmond became the first sitting Southern senator to switch to the Republican Party. Now, the majority of Southern senators and congressmen are Republicans. http://hnn.us/comments/5876.html I learned this in college but I thought I would back it up with a link http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3880/is_200304/ai_n9172996 Thanks for the link

Sinergy -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/12/2007 3:31:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 The dems abandoned religion ( this is not an absolute position ) for the most part. Or its percieved that way... The perceptions of the religious minority who feel abandoned are interesting, however, they should not be considered proof of extant reality. I can believe the moon is made of green cheese, this does not make it so. Perhaps the religious elements in this country should read more about constitutional law and the constitutionally defined seperation of church and state. Sinergy

juliaoceania -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/12/2007 4:00:57 PM)
I am sorry to burst your bubble, but the South went Republican AFTER the Civil Rights Movement. Now you can provide me with proof otherwise I would gladly consider it, thank you

Real0ne -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/12/2007 4:07:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 It not an absolute position among Liberals but you would be the first I have met. Sorry if you took it that way. I suggest you get out more. I have severe reservations against a government disarming the population. They give up their weapons, I will support making the citizenry give up theirs. I dont own a gun for my own reasons, but I do agree that gun control means using both hands. Sinergy i could care what the gov does with their guns better they leave mine alone. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. ---Thomas Jefferson The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. ---Thomas Jefferson No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. ---Thomas Jefferson It is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad. ---James Madison Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. ---John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962 Why:? Executive Order Number 10900 Meaning: Allows the government to take control over all modes of transportation, highways, and seaports. Executive Order Number 10995 Meaning: Allows the government to seize and control the communication media. Executive Order Number 10997 Meaning: Allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels, and minerals. Executive Order Number 10998 Meaning: Allows the government to take over all food resources and farms. Executive Order Number 11000 Meaning: Allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision. Executive Order Number 11001 Allows the government to take over all health, education, and welfare functions. Executive Order Number 11002 Meaning: Designates the Postmaster General to operate national registration of all persons. Executive Order Number 11003 Meaning: Allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft. Executive Order Number 11004 Meaning: Allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations. Executive Order Number 11005 Meaning: Allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways, and public storage facilities. Executive Order Number 11051 Meaning: Specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis. Executive Order Number 11310 Meaning: Grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President. Executive Order Number 11049 Meaning: Assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period. Executive Order Number 11921 Meaning: Allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and flow of money in the U.S.A. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. VERSION 2: allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis." FEMA's powers were consolidated by President Carter to incorporate the... Hows the saying? my country tis of thee, sweet lanf of LIBERTY! Sigh~~

Sinergy -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/12/2007 5:10:33 PM)
I imagine most of the cited executive orders happened in the current administration, as they seem almost consecutive, but it would be useful to me if you would be nice enough to give dates and administrations for the orders, realone. I love my country, but I fear my government. Sinergy

Real0ne -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/13/2007 8:04:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy I imagine most of the cited executive orders happened in the current administration, as they seem almost consecutive, but it would be useful to me if you would be nice enough to give dates and administrations for the orders, realone. I love my country, but I fear my government. Sinergy with good reason! those were from ole jfk before he became cognizant and started to try and fix things. Any EO that is not superceded by another EO stands to this day as valid. Heres gw's; http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/wbush.html http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/clinton.html http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/bush.html http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/reagan.html all this crap is in the national archives

Sinergy -> RE: Run Fred Run (3/13/2007 12:37:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy They give up their weapons, I will support making the citizenry give up theirs. I suppose in retrospect this is not entirely true. I would be willing to sit down and talk about everybody giving up guns, but I am always dubious of governments and organizations who want to force me to do things for, as they put it, my own good. Want to know what is for my own good, try asking me. Sinergy

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