Mastering...... Controling (Full Version)

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KnightofMists -> Mastering...... Controling (3/10/2007 6:25:05 PM)

In the context of  D/s relationship how do you see the terms Mastering and Controling.   How do you see these two terms? Are they the same?  Are they different?





WhiplashSmile -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/10/2007 6:43:53 PM)

Anybody can attempt to control themselves, others, situations and the environment around them.   However it's another thing to have Mastered the Art and techniques in doing so.




Devilslilsister -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/10/2007 7:04:53 PM)

i see them as completely seperate terms





hisannabelle -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/10/2007 7:18:27 PM)

i see them as separate. to control something, you simply have to have power over it. to master it, you need to understand it completely. (insert "someone" and appropriate pronouns, but this is applicable to anything.)

in a d/s relationship, many people have masters who choose not to exercise control over every aspect of their lives (like mine), but that doesn't make them any less "masterful."




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/10/2007 7:18:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
In the context of  D/s relationship how do you see the terms Mastering and Controling.   How do you see these two terms? Are they the same?  Are they different?


One could say that "mastering" is "the ability to get almost exactly what you want almost all of the time"

Control is more a direct ability-  someone who has a stroke might not have control over their speech abilities. 

This is why for me, Ms is about authority, not control.  Control is a slippery thing that takes a lot of effort.  The few things we have control over can be taken from ANY of us very quickly, and the other few things take far too much energy to try and exert on an ongoing basis.

I don't want to control my dog peeing all the time, so I train him to tell me when he needs to pee so I can let him out and he can do it where I want.  Neither of us is in control of the peeing, and I can't control the dog ACTUALLY peeing unless I go to a lot of trouble.




happypervert -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/10/2007 8:16:33 PM)

My reaction to this question is that I see controlling as passive (she give me control over her) while mastering is active (what decisions or actions do I make).

That's my view -- someone else may see it exactly the opposite.




Vendaval -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/10/2007 11:27:40 PM)

I think of "mastering" as being more in the context of a D/s
relationship, specific to personal interaction.
 
I think of "controlling" being more of a description of a person's
approach to life in general, whether that be with people, pets,
vehicles, taxes, etc.




littlesarbonn -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/10/2007 11:44:03 PM)

I think they're spelled differently. Other than that, I leave the big questions to those smarter than me.




MasterNdorei -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/11/2007 12:58:25 AM)

For me control is similar to the ability to cause an act of "obedience". It indicates what is being controled has an expected duration time, and does not serve to alter the cause, though an action may be modified.

Mastering is more likened to cause "surrender", which is a deeper, more consistent affect that has more long term qualities. It affects not only the immediate action of the one being mastered, but also the behavior in future events.

Master's dorei




SusanofO -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/11/2007 1:37:58 AM)

KOM - what an interesting question.
This might be too simple, subjective, and possibly romanticized an answer, but -

Controlling - I see as making, or forcing someone, to do something. Having much influential ability isn't really necessary in order to be controlling in this very basic sense (beyond the obvious, such as:" I have a gun and can kill you if you don't do what I say", etc.)

On the other hand, some folks can assume they have emotional control over someone else when they don't. Or someone can assume they are "being controlled" by another person when they're really not (if they look at a situation realistically). But then again, sometimes emotional control over someone else can be very pervasive, and also subtle (whereas having physical control over someone is pretty obvious.) Whether control is "toward a constructive end" or not, depends entirely, IMO, on the situation in question (and also IMO, the goal). 

Mastering is making someone actually want want to do something so much, that you'll only very rarely (if ever) have to "force" them by controlling them with "force". Someone might indeed want to be controlled as a part of being "Mastered", but - the "Masterly" person won't necessarily have to be controlling, to get another person to do what is desired, much of the time, anyway (and IMO, in a D/s context, another has to desire to be "Mastered", at least a little, anyway, for it to happen).

IMO, you might have to know someone fairly well, to truly "Master" them, and having influence is key. Control, IMO, is perhaps sometimes "easier" (especially if usinge a sledgehammer, or dealing w/someone who is more vulnerable, perhaps).

Btw, I think these definitions can work for Doms/Dommes, as well as submissives. The definitions can work in either direction, depending on the dynamic of the two folks involved, and how they are relating to eachother, what their goals are, etc. 

I don't place as much value-judgment on the definitions as it might appear, because I think control obviously and definitely has a distinct place in a D/s relationship, but attempts to wisely use it might not ensue unless someone has Mastered someone (or started to do that), and another person has allowed themself to become more "Mastered". If that makes sense. So, maybe Controlling is a verb, and Mastering is a process? I dunno.

- Susan




gypsygrl -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/11/2007 2:47:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

In the context of  D/s relationship how do you see the terms Mastering and Controling.   How do you see these two terms? Are they the same?  Are they different?




I see them as different.  Using the terms in their every day senses, the way they are used in this forum, control is a means  whereas mastery is an end. 

Most the time I see control talked about, its very active and direct and involves immediate interaction between the masterer and his/her subject.  Its the same as micromanaging but doesn't require any complex relation between the two:  Master tells slave to fetch the newspaper. If the slave fetches the newspaper, the Master is said to have control.  The control only extends as far as the Master's orders and is focused on the externalities of behavior

Mastery involves having a command (comprehension and the ability to influence) of a person's unique internal mental/emotional processes such that it is possible to influence not just behavior but how the other feels and reacts to the behavior and environment.








nissa -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/11/2007 4:59:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

My reaction to this question is that I see controlling as passive (she give me control over her) while mastering is active (what decisions or actions do I make).

That's my view -- someone else may see it exactly the opposite.


this is pretty much along how I would view the two terms, though slightly different. I see one as an action and one as a result of that action. If I give up control ( the action ), he is then able to master me ( the result ).




velvetears -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/11/2007 5:38:50 AM)

Controling is when the dom imposes restrictions and requires you to do certain things certain ways.

Mastering is when the dom illicits your submissive nature by his very nature and the submissive then surrenders that control and actively seeks to do that which pleases him.




curiouslyseeking -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/11/2007 5:58:08 AM)

Another interesting point to ponder, KnightofMists.
 
The aforementioned responses have broken down the definitions of the two words, mastering and controlling, with some great explanations.  So, i will not expound on my personal definitions. 
 
In my mind’s eye, I do also view them separately.  I perceive “mastering” to be the umbrella in which the “controlling” may come under.
 
If I may rebound the question just a bit, what were your thoughts when you created this question and for what purpose?
 
Respectfully,
curious




SimplyMichael -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/11/2007 7:29:48 AM)

KOM,

I will wait till you have disclosed your enlightened definitions before I comment.




LaTigresse -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/11/2007 7:50:01 AM)

To be controlling and mastering can be very similar or vastly different, depending on the context and person.

Anyone can be controlling and the word itself has a negative feel for me.

Mastering is a work that has a very different feel. When I think of mastering I think of skill, someone that is very much aware of what they are doing, how they are doing it and comfortable in their ability to do it. A calm, measured, assertive approach is what I envision when I think of mastering.

In the context of D/s I see Mastering as being highly desirable while controlling not so much so. Yet I see many that are controlling but have not exactly mastered the art of being a Master. The big difference in my eyes, a Master is one that inspires a submissive/slave to relinquish control. While those that have not yet mastered, have to demand the control be given.




toservez -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/11/2007 7:52:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

My reaction to this question is that I see controlling as passive (she give me control over her) while mastering is active (what decisions or actions do I make).

That's my view -- someone else may see it exactly the opposite.



I like this quite a bit. I was originally thinking controlling is about managing someone and Mastering is about dominating someone, but what happypervert wrote is much better than that.

Disclaimer, I have no objectivity and I am totally bias against using the term mastering or master defined as some tangible skill level achieved or self pronounced base on self or group standards. Just way over the line of self propaganda and look how my shit does not stink.







crouchingtigress -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/11/2007 9:36:55 AM)

To me, mastering is the persuit of excelence....it can be the persuit of excelence in carpetry, matial arts or even in controling.

Controling does not have the finly honed edge of mastering. Controlling can be done well where it harnesses the power and the vision of leadership, but too, it be done poorly where it can be sloppy, brusque, clumsy, brash, immature, and contemptuous.









unsung -> RE: Mastering...... Controling (3/11/2007 10:05:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
In the context of  D/s relationship how do you see the terms Mastering and Controling.   How do you see these two terms? Are they the same?  Are they different?


In the most generalist logical thought given for comparison I have been able to reach between the 2; I consider Mastering the application of applying the knowledge and experiences gained and understanding the dynamic to manipulate, form, mold or shape it into something that works well with what outcome you deem necessary for a particular result. Control on the other hand is a balancing of temperment (not always to do with the mental state). 

As far as them being the same, no they are not.  Control would be a part of the overall mastering, wether that is mastering of oneself, ones will, or ones skill with a particular implement. etc.  It would be part of the sum of the whole. Control + (insert other characteristics aka Knowledge , Experience, etc) = Mastering.

edit to change a word that works better.




BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Mastering...... Controlling (3/11/2007 10:21:52 AM)

Two different things all together,MOST Any one can control IE police, military,husband or boss,Now to master is a whole wonderful thing.To be controlled has several meaning,The one is am thinking about is to be made to do some thing against your wishes,To be kept confined..To master your self, to master a skill or to become a master of another is much different then controlling..I would rather master any day what say all of you?...OF courses just rhe views of this ol" master....bounty




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