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RE: Mastering...... Controlling - 3/11/2007 10:33:14 AM   
crouchingtigress


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quote:

I would rather master any day what say all of you


oh heck yeah.....your post has a similar theme as mine, it is interesting that controlling is so much less desirable and yet that it is the one that takes so much more work.

mastering takes a lot of work in the beginning, but it does not need to be micro managed to be consistantly maintained.

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RE: Mastering...... Controlling - 3/11/2007 4:00:38 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Interesting perspectives- what about the reality that a slave can become a master at many things?  Most especially a master at being a slave for their master?

And what about the notion of dominants needing to control themselves?  We all can lay testament to doms who lack this trait in certain areas.

Mastering and controlling are life concepts to me, not Ds concepts.

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RE: Mastering...... Controlling - 3/11/2007 4:37:12 PM   
crouchingtigress


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yes LA that was my point too....i dont write as well as most of you all.....i really should give up trying.

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RE: Mastering...... Controling - 3/11/2007 4:56:48 PM   
MadRabbit


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Control to me is about 90% illusion and 10% real. The 10% consists myself, my behavior, and my actions. This is all I can really control. The 90% consists of everything else. I cant control the weather. I cant control the fact that my car's transmission will deteriorate and eventually break down. I certainly cant control other people. Other people control themselves and they make decisions for themselves. If they aren't willing to follow my will and want to resist me, ultimately, there is very little I can do. I can threaten them with a gun, but even then...free choice is still there. Follow my will or die. The gun provided influence, but not control.

The context for my definition of mastering is a D/S relationship so in this case, I am talking about mastering other people rather mastering a toy. So in that case, my ideal of mastering is "the ability to exert influence over people without the use of force". In clearer terms, mastering other people is about getting them to WANT to follow my will, rather than forcing them to follow my will.

Once, a teacher type told me to go out and try and get people to take their shoes off without the use of money. This exercise taught me a lot about control, influence and mastery. The decision to take off their shoes always rested in the hands of the people wearing the shoes. It was in their control, not mine. It was up to me to influence them to decide to take their shoes off.

Another definition of mastering is "mastering one's self" or self mastery. To me, this is when you gain control over all of that 10% that is actually in your control. I cant control the weather, but I can bring an umbrella. I cant stop my transmission from going bad, but I can make sure I have the resources to repair or replace it. The more control a person has over what they can control, the more they are able to influence their environments rather than be influenced by them. Example : "You cant make me angry with your insults because I wont allow you to influence me into becoming angry."

Of course, these are just ideals and people are far from perfect. I know I am not close to having complete control over myself. But, none the less, just my perspective.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 3/11/2007 4:58:24 PM >


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RE: Mastering...... Controling - 3/11/2007 5:07:22 PM   
MasterFireMaam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

In the context of  D/s relationship how do you see the terms Mastering and Controling.   How do you see these two terms? Are they the same?  Are they different?




For me, there are different. Controling is dictating how a person lives their life. They do what you tell them. Mastering is giving guidance, but allowing them to choose their own path. The former is mental, the later is spiritual. However, most Ms relationships I know of have degrees of both.

Master Fire


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RE: Mastering...... Controling - 3/11/2007 5:45:56 PM   
szobras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

In the context of  D/s relationship how do you see the terms Mastering and Controling.   How do you see these two terms? Are they the same?  Are they different?




For me, there are different. Controling is dictating how a person lives their life. They do what you tell them. Mastering is giving guidance, but allowing them to choose their own path. The former is mental, the later is spiritual. However, most Ms relationships I know of have degrees of both.

Master Fire


I agree with this, and would add that I think controlling to be the attempt to designate a behavior and a desired result, at times by corrective means. Thus without the effort of continued control, the desired result will likely change again. What I see as more "rigid", and one directional. Mastering I feel is also more of a two directional exchange, and I think at times the first is in part a vehicle of learning to the other.
I do also agree with "LA" that I find these to be life concepts, and not specific to Ds.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
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