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Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against her... - 3/9/2007 3:44:45 PM   
LadyEllen


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There is a new website for the support of Susan Stanton, the City Manager in Largo, Florida who is being dismissed because she disclosed that she was transsexual and preparing for transition. The URL is http://www.SaveStan ton.com Please visit the site and show your support. The Largo City Commission needs to hear that bigotry and intolerance is an affront to diversity.
Thank you,

(forwarded from)
Julie Marin, Founder
Transgender Community of Police & Sheriffs (TCOPS)
www.TCOPS.org

Mods - not sure where to put this post for best effect re exposure! Hope OK here.

Thanks

E

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/9/2007 3:54:36 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

There is a new website for the support of Susan Stanton, the City Manager in Largo, Florida who is being dismissed because she disclosed that she was transsexual and preparing for transition. The URL is http://www.SaveStan ton.com Please visit the site and show your support. The Largo City Commission needs to hear that bigotry and intolerance is an affront to diversity.
Thank you,

(forwarded from)
Julie Marin, Founder
Transgender Community of Police & Sheriffs (TCOPS)
www.TCOPS.org

Mods - not sure where to put this post for best effect re exposure! Hope OK here.

Thanks

E


Lady Ellen, from what little I've heard on the news about this it has nothing to do with "bigotry".
It has everything to do with the fact that the Taxpayers in Florida don't want to have to shell out a half million dollars or whatever it costs in medical payments for one of those cock-chopping operations.
I don't think this guy should be fired because he wants one of those operations.
But, I don't think that Taxpayers should be put in the position of having to pay for that operation either.
It's not a good use of Taxpayer dollars.
Now, if this guy would just claim to be an illegal alien.....

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/9/2007 4:14:03 PM   
RosaB


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The daily news reports that have been aired here, in the local Florida areas, stated that Stanton was being fired because of the disclosure of her sexual status and upcoming, transitional, operation, not about who was paying.  They were also claiming that Stanton's announcement, and operation, will have an affect on Stanton's ability to continue to manage the city effectivly.   If they are now saying its due in part to medical cost, well, that's a new slant of late.  

Regardless, Florida is a bit ass backwards in much of its thinking.


< Message edited by RosaB -- 3/9/2007 4:42:14 PM >

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/9/2007 4:19:25 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Lady Ellen, from what little I've heard on the news about this it has nothing to do with "bigotry".
It has everything to do with the fact that the Taxpayers in Florida don't want to have to shell out a half million dollars or whatever it costs in medical payments for one of those cock-chopping operations.

I'm not sure if what you're sharing with us is simply ignorance or abject stupidity, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt until more conclusive evidence is in. 

Who is going to pay for Stanton's sugery has nothing to do with the reasons why people want her gone.  Most transsexuals pay for the surgery out of their own pocket and it costs nowhere even remotely near "a half million dollars."  Anyone who claims the financial aspect of the situation is the reason they object to her keeping that job is either woefully ignorant or lying out of their ass.

Why people want her gone has everything to do with ignorance, fear, stupidity and bigotry.   

~stef

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/9/2007 4:33:04 PM   
FukinTroll


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What she said.

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/9/2007 4:54:02 PM   
SumterDom


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Good point RosaB
From what I hear, medical costs such as these are not covered by insurance and must be covered by the one seeking the operation. When I first heard of this case I had to do some thinking on it. If becoming a woman isn't going to effect the, apparnetly, fine job this person has done for the past 14 years as the city manager then where's the beef? Is the other side of that coin saying a woman can't effectively do the job of City Manager?
Not only that, but he will be required to be in role 24/7 for at least a year before the operation will be done. At least that's usually a requirement. They have to live the life. Who knows what may happen during that year? Maybe he'll decide "being" a woman isn't what he thought it would be or what he really wants.
Florida being ass backwards? Say it isn't so. We did have that problem with hanging chads didn't we?

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/9/2007 5:01:57 PM   
sophia37


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I just went to the site, took action and emailed my support for the commioner who supports Mr. Stanton. I am a sibling of a transgendered person. 

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/9/2007 6:08:51 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Lady Ellen, from what little I've heard on the news about this it has nothing to do with "bigotry".
It has everything to do with the fact that the Taxpayers in Florida don't want to have to shell out a half million dollars or whatever it costs in medical payments for one of those cock-chopping operations.

I'm not sure if what you're sharing with us is simply ignorance or abject stupidity, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt until more conclusive evidence is in. 

Who is going to pay for Stanton's sugery has nothing to do with the reasons why people want her gone.  Most transsexuals pay for the surgery out of their own pocket and it costs nowhere even remotely near "a half million dollars."  Anyone who claims the financial aspect of the situation is the reason they object to her keeping that job is either woefully ignorant or lying out of their ass.

Why people want her gone has everything to do with ignorance, fear, stupidity and bigotry.   

~stef

Stef, like I said, we've heard *very little* of this on the news here. I don't know all the details.
Personally, I don't think it's right to fire someone because they want to have a cock -chopping operation like this.
I don't see how it would affect a person's performance in their duties just because they got a cock-chopping and wear makeup and woman's clothing.
If they can do the job more power to them!
And, I have no idea how much those cock- chopping operations cost!
I certainly don't think this guy should be fired from his job just because he wants a cock- chopping operation but I would be concerned about the Taxpayers having to pay as it is considered "elective" surgery.
If he's going to have a cock- chopping operation and *pay* for that cock - chopping operation himself I don't think they have any right to fire him!
So there are two sides to the story!
What if I wanted an operation so that I would have a 16 " dick?
Would it be fair for Taxpapers to pay for my "Addadicktomy?"
I think not.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 3/9/2007 6:11:31 PM >

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/9/2007 6:13:56 PM   
Arpig


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I am utterly at a loss, for the life of me I cannot see how a person's sexual orientation, or gender status, or whatever in any way affects the person's ability to do a job. I think it is ridiculous, but then again, some parts of the U.S. can get pretty bent out of shape about the damnedest things.

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/9/2007 6:22:39 PM   
RWAble


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The only back-ass-ward part of Florida is the non-natives. True Floridians go with the flow. A native born Floridian here. You want back-ass-ward thinking, look at Texas, the land that gave us King George. Or New York, where abortions are almost illegal.
I resent your statement about Florida, so if you don't know about us, don't spout your crap. Just because you live in Tampa, don't make you a Floridian.
quote:

ORIGINAL: RosaB

The daily news reports that have been aired here, in the local Florida areas, stated that Stanton was being fired because of the disclosure of her sexual status and upcoming, transitional, operation, not about who was paying.  They were also claiming that Stanton's announcement, and operation, will have an affect on Stanton's ability to continue to manage the city effectivly.   If they are now saying its due in part to medical cost, well, that's a new slant of late.  

Regardless, Florida is a bit ass backwards in much of its thinking.



< Message edited by RWAble -- 3/9/2007 6:29:08 PM >


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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/9/2007 6:31:16 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

There is a new website for the support of Susan Stanton, the City Manager in Largo, Florida who is being dismissed because she disclosed that she was transsexual and preparing for transition. The URL is http://www.SaveStan ton.com Please visit the site and show your support. The Largo City Commission needs to hear that bigotry and intolerance is an affront to diversity.
Thank you,

(forwarded from)
Julie Marin, Founder
Transgender Community of Police & Sheriffs (TCOPS)
www.TCOPS.org

Mods - not sure where to put this post for best effect re exposure! Hope OK here.

Thanks

E


Lady Ellen, from what little I've heard on the news about this it has nothing to do with "bigotry".
It has everything to do with the fact that the Taxpayers in Florida don't want to have to shell out a half million dollars or whatever it costs in medical payments for one of those cock-chopping operations.
I don't think this guy should be fired because he wants one of those operations.
But, I don't think that Taxpayers should be put in the position of having to pay for that operation either.
It's not a good use of Taxpayer dollars.
Now, if this guy would just claim to be an illegal alien.....

popeye1250:
Once again it appears that you have placed your head where the sun does not shine.  Would you please tell us where you found out that the taxpayers have to pay for this individuals operation.  If it is not true then why do you spout off about things you know nothing about?  If it is true how about a cite as to the source of your information.
thompson

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/9/2007 6:50:52 PM   
RosaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RWAble

The only back-ass-ward part of Florida is the non-natives. True Floridians go with the flow. A native born Floridian here. You want back-ass-ward thinking, look at Texas, the land that gave us King George. Or New York, where abortions are almost illegal.
I resent your statement about Florida, so if you don't know about us, don't spout your crap. Just because you live in Tampa, don't make you a Floridian.
quote:



I agree, living in Tampa, doesn't make me a Floridian. 

< Message edited by RosaB -- 3/9/2007 6:51:43 PM >

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/9/2007 7:12:15 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
Why people want her gone has everything to do with ignorance, fear, stupidity and bigotry.   
~stef


yeh okeedokee artichokee...

based on what has been said here so far not reading any news articles:

Seems many are over simplifying things here...

First there is no reason to do this while in office.
Next going public while in office is sticking the transition up peoples asses.
Next people vote people into office based on character etc and right or wrong thats not exactly going in with any kind of disclosure.
Next it is saying that the people she would have to work with apparently would be uncomfortable and therefore not in the best interest of smooth a functioning office.
Bait and switch always pisses people off especially in cases where ignorance gets involves.

Like she didnt know going public would have this result. Once she decided to take her personal life to the public forum of rednecks and hillbillies what would you expect?

She will get the same treatment as me bringing a conspiracy to this forum.

As for me i could give a rats ass if the whole world were ruled by trans men or women for that matter. 

It just tends to make people a little unhappy when uncomfortable things get stuck up their asses.

Other than those minor issues i almost agree with you for the first time.  Ignorance is at least bliss for the ignorant.



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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/10/2007 3:25:04 AM   
LadyEllen


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I dont think there is any question of anyone paying for the op, to be honest; going privately to the best surgeons etc wouldnt cost anything like half a million dollars anyway. The normal course of events is that the person pays themself, and going from what I think are the costs, that would be something like;
Facial hair removal USD 9000-00
Hormone treatments - variable dependent on source, but say USD 500-00 year
New wardrobe - often unplanned for expense! say USD 2500-00 for basic
Sex reassignment surgery - USD 9000-00
Breast enlargement (often required) - USD 9000-00
Facial reconstruction (if required) - USD 30,000-00
TOTAL USD 30k, 60k with facial reconstruction.

There is an issue around the transition with respect to co-workers, I'd agree. There is a period of around 6 months where the person is in a kind of limbo, but after that the transition moving forward means that this issue evaporates. Co-workers will of course have a human reaction - be unsure of the new situation, but cooperation assumed then the "new person" continuing in the same way, will prove herself and thus be established.

There is of course also the issue surrounding the necessary time off from work that any transition requires, in order to attend clinical and psychological assessments and eventually in relation to surgery and recovery time. Any employer who would choose to dismiss a hitherto valued employee because the employee requires medical treatment of any other type would not be a popular one I contest. Do they dismiss people who are diagnosed with treatable cancer I wonder?

I think the issue raised as to whether the belief is that a woman cannot do the job is interesting, and if this case were with regard to a genetic female then there would surely be no question raised as to her ability. Since as a male this person has performed the job well for some time, then we must look to others for any belief as to why as a female she could not.

Now, the figure of half a million dollars may have some basis of course, by way of likely minimum compensation following a successful lawsuit against the employer in this case - all of which would have to be paid by the taxpayers. Add to that the cost of the disruption to the service being delivered by this person currently - far greater than the disruption likely to be occasioned by their absence from work for treatments etc, and the adverse publicity, and to me it is clear that it were far better for the employer in this case to retain the services of the employee and work with them.

There is in addition an argument that, with their identity issues resolved, the employee might well prove even more effective in the role. And on top of that, once accepted as female, it is absolutely for sure that she would have to work twice as hard as any male for recognition.

Luckily, this latter is rarely a difficult task.

E

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/10/2007 7:58:57 AM   
LotusSong


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Popeye,
 
This type of surgery is considered "elective", meaning it would not be covered by insurance.

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/10/2007 11:22:03 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Popeye,
 
This type of surgery is considered "elective", meaning it would not be covered by insurance.


Lotus, then what's the problem if this guy is going to pay for the surgery himself?
I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that then.
Again, I don't think it's right for them to fire him just for wanting the surgery.
I don't know if it's "discrimination" per se but it would seem to me that you can't fire someone for wanting a sex-change operation.
That would in my opinion constitute "wrongful termination."
I think he may very well have a good lawsuit on his hands.
The problem I and many others have is like when prisoners sue to get sex change operations and expect Taxpayers to pick up the tab.
That's just plain wrong.

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/10/2007 11:33:13 AM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I am utterly at a loss, for the life of me I cannot see how a person's sexual orientation, or gender status, or whatever in any way affects the person's ability to do a job. I think it is ridiculous, but then again, some parts of the U.S. can get pretty bent out of shape about the damnedest things.

 
My comments to follow are NOT DIRECTED at Arpig but to the general sentiment of this post as it pretty well sums up a majority of the well meant feelings about this subject.
 
No, she would be able to do the job as before, but here is what it's about:  People are no so much "bigoted", ignorant.. etc".  This is something "new" to the public. Transgenderism really starting to get press and coming to the forefront with the definition of gender disphoria.  People understand that.. no problem.  They "got it". OK?
 
Now... don't you think Susan is going to need some time to adjust to her new body and life?  Could you make such a drastic change and just go back to work?  Give EVERYBODY a break for pete's sake.
 
Would ANY of us NOT be more focused on her new appearance than what kind of job performance she would be doing?   You can't change human nature.
 
Here is a very benign example.  If I am running for public office and I have a very distinct lisp and the other candidate doesn't.. What do you think the voter would be focused on?  What I have to say or  my lisp?  
 
Life isn't fair..it just is.  The next time any of you feel entitled to my handicapped parking space because you'll "just be a minute",  consider yourself one of the ignorant, bigoted people you so hate.
 
 

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 3/10/2007 11:40:38 AM >

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/10/2007 11:59:53 AM   
popeye1250


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Lotus, that's funny.
I have a "Disabled American Veterans" sticker on the back of my car and I can park anywhere.
I always park at the far end of the lot when I go shopping for two reasons; one so I don't get  shopping carts bumping into my car, two so anyone who "needs" one of those handicapped spaces can have it.
I get around pretty well.
So, three days ago (5% discount for seniors on wed) I'm walking from the back of the supermarket parking lot and ahead of me this guy pulls into a "Handicapped" space, no stickers, no plate, except for one of those "wheelchair" things that *anyone* can buy at a drugstore hanging off of his rearview mirror and he gets out and he's got to be 400 lbs.
This elderly woman pulls up in her car as I get closer and says to the guy, "Excuse me! You shouldn't be parking in that spot without a handicapped plate!"
The guy looks at her and keeps walking, she puts it in reverse and follows him and starts yelling at him, "I'm going to go in and tell the manager if you don't move that car!"
I'm right next to them now.
The guy says "Fuck you!" to her
The lady yells, "You fat sum bitch I outta put a rope around you and drag your fat ass all around this parking lot!"
I was roaring laughing! Man, I wouldn't want to mess with *that* old lady!
Funny as hell!

P.S. I *LOVE* living in the South!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 3/10/2007 12:10:23 PM >

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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/10/2007 12:15:24 PM   
KatyLied


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quote:

This type of surgery is considered "elective", meaning it would not be covered by insurance.


My understanding of "elective" is that it is surgery that is not of an emergency or urgent nature.  It has nothing to with the health insurance coverage.
There are some types of "elective" surgery that are completely covered by insurance.



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RE: Florida TS Susan Stanton; pls sign petition against... - 3/10/2007 12:18:02 PM   
Sternhand4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Lotus, that's funny.
I have a "Disabled American Veterans" sticker on the back of my car and I can park anywhere.
I always park at the far end of the lot when I go shopping for two reasons; one so I don't get  shopping carts bumping into my car, two so anyone who "needs" one of those handicapped spaces can have it.
I get around pretty well.
So, three days ago (5% discount for seniors on wed) I'm walking from the back of the supermarket parking lot and ahead of me this guy pulls into a "Handicapped" space, no stickers, no plate, except for one of those "wheelchair" things that *anyone* can buy at a drugstore hanging off of his rearview mirror and he gets out and he's got to be 400 lbs.
This elderly woman pulls up in her car as I get closer and says to the guy, "Excuse me! You shouldn't be parking in that spot without a handicapped plate!"
The guy looks at her and keeps walking, she puts it in reverse and follows him and starts yelling at him, "I'm going to go in and tell the manager if you don't move that car!"
I'm right next to them now.
The guy says "Fuck you!" to her
The lady yells, "You fat sum bitch I outta put a rope around you and drag your fat ass all around this parking lot!"
I was roaring laughing! Man, I wouldn't want to mess with *that* old lady!
Funny as hell!

P.S. I *LOVE* living in the South!


Did she end it with " bless your heart?"

Last time I was in Texas, I was told you could say anything mean you wanted as long as you used that phrase...
lol

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