Self Involved

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Quivver -> Self Involved (3/7/2007 3:17:44 AM)
AzzMasters thought in "Pondering "Real" vs. "Fake" got me curious. He stated "most people are pretty self involved." I cant say for sure that self involvement isnt a bad thing but then again there are extremes. So, my questions are these. where in your life and or relationship or search do you feel you are self involved? how have others self involvement effected you ? and for the Subs, do you feel you are lower on self involvement and why? I'm asking to reflect and will add my 2 cents when I get back home..... Thanks!

gypsygrl -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 3:43:04 AM)
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by self-involved, but I'll give it a spin. When I read the question, I giggled because I am so ridiculously self-involved and I can't really think of an area of my life where I'm not self-involved. I'm very much aware of the intricate details of how things affect me and I affect them and will talk about that endlessly with even a little bit of encouragement. I don't think its necessarily a bad thing, and I much prefer to interact with people equally self-involved because I think it makes them more interesting and I feel I can get to know them on their terms rather than me piecing together bits of information gleaned at great effort which carries with it a high potential for projection. I don't think identifying as a submissive means that I should be less self absorbed, if thats what you're asking. In fact, I think I have a certain duty to be really aware of how interactions are affecting me and be able to communicate that 'cause its the only way a Dominant can know what's going on inside my head which is really important information. That information can, of course, be used for good or evil, and every bit of self-disclosure increases the potential power of the Dominant in so far as he or she can use it in the interests of control, so that kind of self disclosure is a risky endeavor but its also the 'stuff' of power exchange. I do have strong tendencies in the direction of magical thinking/ paranoia, so I have to be careful to remind myself that not everything's about me. And thank god for that cause it'd be a real scary world if it was.

thetammyjo -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 6:48:01 AM)
Let me repeat to all of you what I told one of students yesterday who complained that a significant other was requiring time that should be spent on school work. If you don't take care of yourself, who will? Anyone else in my life may disappear tomorrow through accident or illness or their choice or mine. No one else can realistically be responsible for me other than me. There is a huge difference between taking care of yourself, having a self-interest, and being uninterested or unaware or uncaring of others. You need to find a balance. To continue by taking it back to my student, a D- average in classes at midterms is not a balance, it's academic suicide. Start taking more interest in your self.

KatyLied -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 6:55:04 AM)
Yes, I am self-involved, and happily so. Isn't that a normal state of being? I'm involved with many things, mainly myself. [8D] I don't depend on anyone to take care of me and I prefer to solve my own problems. Although it would be nice to find a compatible person to give some authority to, I've learned that I can do fine without it.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 7:21:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Quivver where in your life and or relationship or search do you feel you are self involved? Everywhere. It is MY LIFE. quote: how have others self involvement effected you ? Yes. quote: and for the Subs, do you feel you are lower on self involvement and why? Nope, I learned a long time ago that I need to make myself top priority. I also learned that it's completely possible to put myself AND other things/people as top priority simultaneously.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 7:54:48 AM)
I'm going to answer a bit differently than those who already did. Self involved - what IS that? Me-centric? No, I am not me-centric. I focus on my Master and it is my focus on him which has brought me to a place of taking care of myself...for him. I did not take care of myself very well prior to him taking ownership of me. I am Master-involved, and everything else flows from there...quite nicely too, I might add.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 7:58:53 AM)
Life is about "my stuff". This is true for every individual...and it's supposed to be that way. If it wasn't, we'd have a hive mentality. However, being Self-centered and being self-centered are two different things. Self-centered is realizing that our spiritual journey through life is all about our experiences percieved from our perspective. We work, or at least attempt to work, to improve our Selves and influence others in such a way as to enrich their lives. Being self-centered is living at the expense of others, deliberately. This is an abusive trait and isn't healthy. There's a fine line between the two because we often enrich other people's lives by being a negative influence. It's the intent behind our actions that define them. Master Fire

behindmirrors -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 8:01:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Quivver where in your life and or relationship or search do you feel you are self involved? I second LuckyAlbatross here- everywhere, because it is my existence, my life, and my job to determine how to live it. quote: how have others self involvement effected you ? I prefer other self-involved people. Each individual seeks to meet their own needs through their own means, or through consentual trade, which fulfills both- and I don't believe in self-sacrifice for another in the sense of compromising who I am and what my needs are in order to fulfill the end of another- I expect something in return, a trade agreement, where both individual needs are met. quote: and for the Subs, do you feel you are lower on self involvement and why? No. I have stated before that I am selfish in my slavery and submission. I am doing this in the situation of a mutual trade, for myself on my own terms and himself on his own terms, where both of us are fulfilled by what the other brings to the relationship, but we each stand alone in our own right as well. I would not be happy if I didn't pay mind to my self any my own needs and capacity for happiness- and neither would my Dom. We each pay attention to ourselves, and then bring to the relationship what we can trade and provide with and for each other. In this, it becomes mutually satisfying to be with each other, as two individuals with unique strengths and weaknesses that the other helps with through trade. Just my opinion, of course. behindmirrors.

toservez -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 8:21:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo Let me repeat to all of you what I told one of students yesterday who complained that a significant other was requiring time that should be spent on school work. If you don't take care of yourself, who will? Anyone else in my life may disappear tomorrow through accident or illness or their choice or mine. No one else can realistically be responsible for me other than me. There is a huge difference between taking care of yourself, having a self-interest, and being uninterested or unaware or uncaring of others. You need to find a balance. To continue by taking it back to my student, a D- average in classes at midterms is not a balance, it's academic suicide. Start taking more interest in your self. I think this might be a semantic/definition thing. Every one is self involved. For the most part it can be good as knowing yourself and understanding your actions is good for a person. I like what TammyJo wrote in this regard very much and cannot write it better. I think though what the OP might be referring to is self obsessed. Where a person concentrates on themselves so much that other people are treated as an afterthought not by intention but because the time spent on one self takes up so much time and thought that other people in the person’s life get put on the back burner. My former Master had this problem. He was not remotely a bad man and was definitely not a selfish man but he got so lost within himself that it looked like he took other people for granted and felt he was more important then them which was not the case at all. I also have seen this with submissive people where sometimes we can concentrate so much on doing something that makes us feel a certain way and even do it under the thought it is for our other and lose site that what pleases are other is up to them and not us.

gandalf0297 -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 9:37:36 AM)
The fact of the matter is we.As brings in general.Are all self centered. Be that good bad or indifferant. We do what we do bescuse it makes us feel good. Everything we do, if you break it down to the basics. Get's back to the me thing.

azzmaster -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 10:51:53 AM)
when i said self involved it was not a statement about healthy caring for self. In society now as a whole, because of the decline of the nuclear family and many communities being quite transitory, the individual has become ore narcissistic than in times gone by, and people have disfficulty accepting others differences and opinions, generally jumping to conclusions and making assumptions before gettin to know a person, or in the case of angry or passive agressive individuals looking for some flaw to pounce on and put the other person down of course everyones world view is by its nature subjective and we must take care of ourselves... but in trusting family life and society there is also trust that we will have our needs met and some concern about if ur neighbor is gettin enought to eat

CreativeDominant -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 12:26:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Quivver AzzMasters thought in "Pondering "Real" vs. "Fake" got me curious. He stated "most people are pretty self involved." I cant say for sure that self involvement isnt a bad thing but then again there are extremes. So, my questions are these. where in your life and or relationship or search do you feel you are self involved? how have others self involvement effected you ? and for the Subs, do you feel you are lower on self involvement and why? I'm asking to reflect and will add my 2 cents when I get back home.... . Thanks! I sm looking at this question in the same way toservez and azzmaster are...that self-involvement is a more selfish thing than self-awareness. Went to Answers.com: self-involvement noun Concern only for oneself: egocentricity, egocentrism, egoism, egomania, self-absorption, self-centeredness, selfishness. See self/other[/end indent] Then, there is this from Merrian-Webster: Main Entry: self–involvement Pronunciation: \-ˈvälv-mənt, -ˈvȯlv-\ Function: noun Date: 1971 : self-absorption self-absorption Main Entry: self–ab·sorp·tion [image]http://209.161.33.50/images/audio.gif[/image] Pronunciation: \-ˈsȯrp-shən, -ˈzȯrp-\ Function: noun Date: 1835 : preoccupation with oneself I think I try to be self-aware more than self-involved. Everyone has a certain amount of self-involvement; there are such things as survival of self that are totally self-involved. There are those times when we put something we are interested in over what someone else is interested in or wants. The problem comes in when people spend too much time concentrating on what they want and going out and getting what they want WITHOUT consideration of what others want or expecting them to put their wants and needs second to yours at all times. It has affected differing relationships...my marriage for one. My last D/s relationship, for another. In my marriage, both of us were guilty of pulling into ourselves until we could only see what we ourselves wanted and not what the other wanted and needed. In my D/s relationship, her wants and needs and her sense that they could only be satisfied by my either doing it her way completely or by her doing it her way completely and alone was the only good answer.

gypsygrl -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 4:03:35 PM)
quote: The problem comes in when people spend too much time concentrating on what they want and going out and getting what they want WITHOUT consideration of what others want or expecting them to put their wants and needs second to yours at all times. Working with your dictionary definition, ego-centrism and ego-centricity are cognitive patterns closely related to magical thinking and paranoia which, in my mind, relates directly to back to the tendency to be self-involved. While ego centricity is considered to be a normal stage of cognitive development at least according to mainstream middle class cultural norms, many indivuals, particularly those living in or who grew up in stressful/ chaotic conditions, seem to preserve ego centric patterns in adulthood. Excessively concerned with either material or psychic survival, they have a heightened sense of self and its fragility and are preoccupied with "getting thier needs met" at all costs. Generally, when people are radically insecure, they become preoccupied with their own survival, often at the expense of others. Hense, they become self-involved. Cognitively, I'm not a magical thinker, hense, I can adopt the decentered tone of the psychologically sophisticated as I did in the above paragraph, but emotionally, it all comes back to me. I have to be careful to moderate my emotional excesses with cognitive corrections. quote: when i said self involved it was not a statement about healthy caring for self. In society now as a whole, because of the decline of the nuclear family and many communities being quite transitory, the individual has become ore narcissistic than in times gone by, and people have disfficulty accepting others differences and opinions, generally jumping to conclusions and making assumptions before gettin to know a person, or in the case of angry or passive agressive individuals looking for some flaw to pounce on and put the other person down of course everyones world view is by its nature subjective and we must take care of ourselves... but in trusting family life and society there is also trust that we will have our needs met and some concern about if ur neighbor is gettin enought to eat This is really close to Christopher Lasch's thesis in Culture of Narcissism. Historically, the nuclear family was a very short-lived phenomena that contained the seeds of its own destruction. Because it was never up to the task of providing for emotional security, it promoted a narcissistic self-interest and an insensitivity to the needs of others tendencies which turn back and further undermine the family. Personally (and it does all come back to me lol), I don't think the trust in the family is enough to counter the sorts of insecurities endemic in our society. I think a richer notion of community is necessary.

azzmaster -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 5:41:41 PM)
very very on point and alot more eloquent than my vocabulary... but stable family is a cornerstone of a caring community. its a challenging time and one must not fall victim to it but struggle to do ones best within its confines

Quivver -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 6:00:50 PM)
When I read AzzMasters words this morning my mind went in so many directions although I tended to see it as he's now clarified. Yet in so many circumstance ~blame~ ends up on the shoulders of the one who's taken a back seat, by choice, by omission, or sometimes by perception. Personally I think self involved is a necessary thing for an adult. But to answer my own questions...... "where in your life and or relationship or search do you feel you are self involved?" when green off the Nilla wagon I fell victim to Sub Frenzy. I learned over time to be self involved! in relationships with careers it's been an ability to climb ladders as I push my own limits. as a young adult, to grow wings........ how have others self involvement effected you ? I asked this question mostly due to an Ex who got so self involved I became invisible. Needless to say, he's an Ex now. and for the Subs, do you feel you are lower on self involvement and why? This one I asked because it's such a fine line in my mind. To begin we have to learn to trust ourselves, our perceptions and our limits. We have to hold our ground, stand up and say no quite a bit. Sometimes followed by no thank you. But once in a time tested relationship I think a Sub's self involvement has to alter. And how to slowly let go of some of our self involvement is a painfull process at times while gaining that trust. Course that might be effected by how many times one's ridden that swing set! Great replies, Thank You all!

azzmaster -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 6:10:48 PM)
there is always a good reason people do everything i find. i will just ask this tho... in the context of a successful BDSM relationship if any kind, is it doomed to failure if one is overly involved with self? i think so, even as a dom, tho i may be the one setting rules and saying how things go, at all times i must keep in mind caring about the needs of a sub and being just and fair as well as stern. if i m too self involved it will be hard for me to be nurturing and the sub in fact may get issues about trusting a dom in a subsequent relationship. my personal view od BDSM is that it must be symbiotic to get the true depth of D/s or it is just some people wants to flog each other for a kick

Quivver -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 6:30:41 PM)
AzzMaster .. I think at times through life we swing back and forth on how self involved we are or have to be. Just human nature, of course realizing that's whats going on with someone you interact with is the tough part. I think this is where time plays a huge part. It's in the early stages where when those questions rear their ugly head that we can percieve red flags where there may be none. I admit I've been guilty of that myself. [&o]

azzmaster -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 6:39:33 PM)
thats a valid point, it takes time to forge trusting bonds and no road is ever str8

junecleaver -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 7:31:18 PM)
quote: Being self-centered is living at the expense of others, deliberately. That's possibly the clearest way I've ever heard self-centeredness explained.

MzMia -> RE: Self Involved (3/7/2007 7:36:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: azzmaster when i said self involved it was not a statement about healthy caring for self. In society now as a whole, because of the decline of the nuclear family and many communities being quite transitory, the individual has become ore narcissistic than in times gone by, and people have disfficulty accepting others differences and opinions, generally jumping to conclusions and making assumptions before gettin to know a person, or in the case of angry or passive agressive individuals looking for some flaw to pounce on and put the other person down of course everyones world view is by its nature subjective and we must take care of ourselves... but in trusting family life and society there is also trust that we will have our needs met and some concern about if ur neighbor is gettin enought to eat aha you are well educated as I thought...hummm[;)] I see a lot of that behavior on these boards, ya feeling me?

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