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Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/2/2007 3:51:32 PM

farglebargle

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From: Albany, NY
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http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,468740,00.html

Almost 2000 last year, and rising. Of course it's the normal course of events, and who expected any different with Bush playing Commander in Chief. If going AWOL during wartime from April 72 to October 72 didn't hurt Bush's career any, why not?

Safer to sit in prison that get blown up by some Iraqi IED planted by some Sunnis to get some Shiia...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

Post #: 1

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/2/2007 10:23:56 PM

MzMia

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Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,468740,00.html

Almost 2000 last year, and rising. Of course it's the normal course of events, and who expected any different with Bush playing Commander in Chief. If going AWOL during wartime from April 72 to October 72 didn't hurt Bush's career any, why not?

Safer to sit in prison that get blown up by some Iraqi IED planted by some Sunnis to get some Shiia...

Thanks for sharing fargle, sad situation isn't it? I wonder how many have gone to Canada?

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 2

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 7:11:19 AM

subrob1967

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Joined: 9/13/2004
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It's pretty pathetic that these assholes can't live up to their word, and oath of office.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 3

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 7:17:07 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

If it's good enough for the Commander in Chief isn't it good enough for everyone?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 4

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 10:41:50 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
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Ahh yes, the armed forces.... Great outdoors life, see the World on someone else's dollar etc....

Then, one day, the government expects you to do what they invested a fortune in time and money to train you to do; what they *pay you* to do!

I'm all choked up and teary eyed for those who now think it's "Safer to sit in prison" etc....

Focus.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 5

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 11:57:05 AM

DomKen

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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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My nephew spent almost 14 months at a charming place called Camp Anaconda near Bahgdad.

He was a driver in a transport company. All the vehicles in his company were using improvised armor, sheet metal welded to the bodies, because the armored vehicles that they should have gotten were being used by KBR's truckers instead.

The food was provided by KBR, at an astonishing $80/meal according to my research, which he reported routinely smelled and tasted rotten. KBR has since gotten in trouble with the government on this issue.

When his unit was moved en masse for medical checkups or to go to another base for R&R they were loaded into a flatbed truck with some sheet metal welded to it. KBR personnel and VIP's got transported in something called a Rhino Runner which is described as a fully armored bus.

Further more he reported that KBR employees admitted to receiving salaries in the low 6 figures.

Now what could possibly make a soldier in that environment desert?

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 6

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 12:32:59 PM

meatcleaver

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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Now what could possibly make a soldier in that environment desert?

I've never understood why anyone who is not rolling in money would want to fight and die for their country because wars aren't fought for countries, they are fought for the rich so let the rich fight them is my attitude. Let them eat their own shit and die in their own shit and let ordinary folk get on with their ordinary lives trying to make a go of things.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 7

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 1:21:52 PM

Real0ne

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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fest reply

What does anyone expect? Good ole uncle sam puts his dick in the wringer lol (again).

This is nothing more than a police action to conquer and protect oil, and what, the soldiers are supposed to be stoopid like many of their american bothers and sisters who buy into this terrorist bullshit? People tend to wake up when their asses are on the line, unlike the flag waving armchair pro war gi jo wannabees.

All those who feel this little war is about terrorism why dont you get off your asses and go over and play oil cop? Lets see how long it takes for you to wise up.

Easy to talk smart when its someone else with an ak stuck up his ass getting wasted over nothin more than same political bullshit we went through with nam. only the names have changed. hint: false flag.

i believe in war, served my time, there are justifications for war but not this bullshit.

So how many more need to die before the engmercican imperialists wake up. At least 2000 soldiers per month are getting a first hand education!

Try turning the guns at the terrorists for a change. (they tend to spy on the american people and keep a lot of secrets) you know.....zero disclosure.....the democratic way of life.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 8

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 1:27:04 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Now what could possibly make a soldier in that environment desert?

I've never understood why anyone who is not rolling in money would want to fight and die for their country because wars aren't fought for countries, they are fought for the rich so let the rich fight them is my attitude. Let them eat their own shit and die in their own shit and let ordinary folk get on with their ordinary lives trying to make a go of things.

yep and i posted a list of them too!

and anyone related!

N.M. Rothschild , London
J. Henry Schroder
Alex Brown
Lord Mantagu
Harriman Bros
Lord Airlie
M. M. Warburg
marr. Virginia F. Ryan
Solomon Loeb
Abraham Kuhn
Lehman-Stern, New Orleans
Jacob Schiff/Theresa Loeb
Nina Loeb/Paul Warburg
Mortimer Schiff
James Paul Warburg
Mayer Lehman
Emmanuel Lehman
Herbert Lehman
Irving Lehman
Arthur Lehman
Phillip Lehman
John Schiff/Edith Brevoort Baker
Robert Owen Lehman
Kuhn Loeb
George F. Baker
Thomas Fortune Ryan
James Stillman
Elsie m. William Rockefeller
Isabel m. Percy Rockefeller
William Rockefeller
Bilderbergs
J. P. Morgan
M.T. Pyne
Percy Pyne
J.W. Sterling
H.P. Davison
Mary W. Harriman
Shearman & Sterling
A.D. Jiullard
Jacob Schiff
Thomas F. Ryan
Paul Warburg
Levi P. Morton
J.P. Morgan
George F. Baker
George F. Baker Jr.
Edith Brevoort Baker
James Stillman
Baron Rudolph Von Schroder
Baron Bruno Von Schroder
F. C. Tiarks
marr. Emma Franziska (Hamburg)
Helmut B. Schroder
Allen Dulles
John Foster Dulles
Sullivan & Cromwell
Prentiss Gray
Lord Airlie
G. A. Zabriskie
Emile Francoui
Edgar Richard
Julius H. Barnes
Herbert Hoover
John Lowery Simpson
Baron Kurt Von Schroder
J.H. Stein
Casper Weinberger
George P. Schultz
Avery Rockefeller
Gordon Richardson
David Rockefeller
Eugene Meyer family
Carnegie
Brown Brothers
Maurice F. Granville

they can take point!

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/3/2007 1:30:36 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 9

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 1:27:44 PM

caitlyn

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Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

If you volunteer, you are honor bound to see it through.

I don't think we should jail these people. I think they should have good confiscated to pay for all the training and pay they received, and immediately kicked out of the country in whatever direction they choose to go.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 10

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 3:58:53 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

If you volunteer, you are honor bound to see it through.

I don't think we should jail these people. I think they should have good confiscated to pay for all the training and pay they received, and immediately kicked out of the country in whatever direction they choose to go.

I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM) THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD.

So, if the ORDERS are in fact contrary to the Constitution, Regulations, and the UCMJ, then aren't they RIGHT to leave?

So far every court has ducked the issue of making that judgment.

I wonder why? If it IS Lawful, then wouldn't a court affirmation be beneficial?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 11

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 4:13:57 PM

caitlyn

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Private Benjamin doesn't get to make that call. If they can't agree to that, they shouldn't volunteer. Volunteer, and in voluntary, and in nobody is holding a gun to their head and making them join.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 12

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 4:21:56 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

If you volunteer, you are honor bound to see it through.

I don't think we should jail these people. I think they should have good confiscated to pay for all the training and pay they received, and immediately kicked out of the country in whatever direction they choose to go.

Strange how countries belong to the poor in times of conflict.

No state is worth fighting for and wars are very rarely to do with the defence of ones homeland but are usually for corrupt politicians and vested interest groups which seems to be the reason US troops are in Iraq. Correct me if I'm wrong but my bet is most people that join the military do so because of a lack of prospects in the area from which they come but if they are called to fight, expect to defend their homeland and not go on some jolly on the other side of the world for corporate America.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 13

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 5:35:28 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Private Benjamin doesn't get to make that call. If they can't agree to that, they shouldn't volunteer. Volunteer, and in voluntary, and in nobody is holding a gun to their head and making them join.

They're not SLAVES. They are Citizens of a Constitutional Republic, and as such, retain their obligation to not just follow orders, but judge the lawfulness of those orders. Otherwise why charge them with that exact duty in their oath?

We hanged Nazis for "Just Following Orders" to prove the point.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/3/2007 5:36:36 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 14

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 6:08:08 PM

xBullx

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Caitlyn,

Be careful with your defense of the volunteer comments. Now some of our officers come from homes with money, and even some of the enlisted do. But a great many don't, and with our social economy that is becoming more seperated by upper and lower levels, many kids don't have much of a way out of poverty, they don't have a well to do father figure that will pay for a very expensive education, some feel so pushed down by the political rhetoric and crap they see on TV that they only find one option as a chance out unless they're a super athlete. So, no one is holding a gun to their head, but their economic status in this country may be doing just that. Now, I have no statistics that can support that therory other than I have been there and that is what dug me out of the economic glut of the farm depression of the early Eighties. How convenient that was for Reagan when he was going to build a Military. Sure, I only have a conspiracy therory, but chew on that for awhile. Maybe there is a gun to their head, one a girl from your side of the tracks might have not considered. It may be crazy to think that someone planned this crap, but hey, some think Bush planned the planes. Some think FDR new about the Harbor. Some think Elvis lives in my basement. Wait that was the guy that lived there before me.

Living well,

Bull

< Message edited by xBullx -- 3/3/2007 6:11:22 PM >

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 15

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 7:39:40 PM

caitlyn

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Joined: 12/22/2004
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Yeah, I spent the first thirteen years of my life in fucking paradise.

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 16

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 8:30:46 PM

xBullx

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if you say so ............................ a little bit self important to make that post all about you now wasn't it........I was pointing out how there might be a chance that just perhaps societies strife and economic hardship is the gun to the head of our less fortunate youth and you manage to make it all about you.....I guess that is a rather revealing window into the world of Caitlyn.....how disappointing......

< Message edited by xBullx -- 3/3/2007 8:35:14 PM >

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 17

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 8:34:08 PM

subrob1967

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If it's good enough for the Commander in Chief isn't it good enough for everyone?

Love him or hate him, he does have an Honorable Discharge...How about you?

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 18

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 8:55:12 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If it's good enough for the Commander in Chief isn't it good enough for everyone?

Love him or hate him, he does have an Honorable Discharge...How about you?

THAT'S exactly my point. You can easily just lay low for 6 months and STILL get an honorable discharge. There's nothing to be ashamed of anymore.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 19

RE: Der Spiegel: 5 troops/day deserting or AWOL. - 3/3/2007 10:55:25 PM

FangsNfeet

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Still listening to Dan Blather?

As for AWALL, everyone who sighns up knows that quiting is not an option. But if a soldier chooses to pay back all the money invested into him/her by tax dollars and resign there bennifits, then let the person quit. Also, wait for a damn replacement. Just leaving puts more work load on your unit. That's not fair to them and endangers there safety.

Killing and seeing death all the time is not for everyone. In basic training, when do you get to kill someone and realize that you can or can't deal with killing other people? Thinking is one thing and knowing is another. Unfortuantly, boot camp still leaves many with the "I think I can" more than the "I know I can" After all, you can't know untill you really see it and do it.

There should be a procedure other than Levenworth for those who realize they can't handle it. No matter the job, I think a person should always be able to leave as long as you don't bail on your team mates while in the heat of battle.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 20

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