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love and repect - 2/27/2007 5:10:41 AM

GoddessGreed

Posts: 93
Joined: 12/27/2006
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If you read any 'relationship rescue' books, listen to any marriage counsellers etc etc, they all say, you wont get love or respect from a man, if you allow yourself to be controlled. Itd be interesting to hear both dom and sub views on this...

_____________________________

you have only ONE advantage over me, you can kiss my ass and i cant!!

Post #: 1

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 5:12:45 AM

GoddessGreed

Posts: 93
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline

ooops it seems i cant spell respect lol

_____________________________

you have only ONE advantage over me, you can kiss my ass and i cant!!

(in reply to GoddessGreed)

Post #: 2

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 5:16:44 AM

BDSM05478

Posts: 417
Joined: 10/27/2006
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Those "relationship books" are geared towards vanillas so they do not apply to this dynamic where the idea of control is involved and encouraged.

_____________________________

"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart" U.E. McGill

"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present." - Marcus Aurelius

(in reply to GoddessGreed)

Post #: 3

RE: love and respect - 2/27/2007 5:18:03 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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That is a mainstream fantasy that has little to do with reality. That's about a bunch of don't fuck until the third date kind of hogwash...In fact, I would think it very difficult if respect could be defined agreeably between the sexes.

Ron

anybody can get repect, not many get respect.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to GoddessGreed)

Post #: 4

RE: love and respect - 2/27/2007 5:23:19 AM

GoddessGreed

Posts: 93
Joined: 12/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

. That's about a bunch of don't fuck until the third date kind of hogwash...
Ron

Im usually planning marriage by the 3rd date!!!

_____________________________

you have only ONE advantage over me, you can kiss my ass and i cant!!

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 5

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 5:36:57 AM

StellaByStarlite

Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline

Hello. =)

I think this style of thinking stems from two things. One is the "old-school" feminism that swept America 30 or so years ago. The other factor is our cultural values. America has a history of emphasizing independence, individualism, carving our own place in the world. It makes sense given our past as colonists.

All that is perfectly well and good as far as building a society goes, but translating that to personal relationships is tricky. In the more healthy vanilla relationships I've observed or experienced, control flows back and forth between both parties.

Cheers,
Stella

(in reply to GoddessGreed)

Post #: 6

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 5:48:56 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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'Tis different.

Allowing yourself to be controlled in a relationship where you don't wish to be, in ways and situations where you don't wish to be, and are unhappy and uncomfortable...........isn't the same as choosing to be, knowing the extent and being content, overall, with it.

One is like giving up, the other is, perhaps, giving in.

agirl

< Message edited by agirl -- 2/27/2007 5:52:09 AM >

(in reply to GoddessGreed)

Post #: 7

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 6:33:55 AM

junecleaver

Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
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People worth respecting are the people who live up to their promises. If I promised to obey, then it serves to reason I would get his respect by honoring that agreement.

I think in the 'vanilla world' or whatever you want to call it that holds some truth. But it definitely doesn't in my relationship.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 8

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 6:52:01 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

This is popcorn regular world psychological logic 101 depends on the view type of thing.

In other words if a person is being controlled they have issues and the person doing the controlling has issues so therefore it is not a good and healthy relationship and love and respect are missing. The person who is being controlled is probably not happy and the controller is probably looking for something that is missing in themselves and is dealing with it poorly, couples in the wrong place mentally. Two people getting together that may or may not already be doomed in the love and respect area in human relations.

In our world the two people have mutually consented and understand the dynamic of the relationship that they both searched out and looked for. No one is forcing their issues on another and the other to weak to defend themselves. This does not mean that what I wrote above does not happen in this life as we are not exempt from human fallacy but just that control is not a pure indication of lack of love and respect.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to junecleaver)

Post #: 9

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 6:57:53 AM

Mustardseed

Posts: 291
Joined: 5/27/2006
From: Seattle, WA
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Hrm. When I read relationship books, I simply adjust certain terms to fit my relationship dynamic. I'll recommend Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay to pretty much anyone trying to figure out what to do with an issueful relationship just because it's so customizable and user friendly. I will qualify that the author is a stickler on one point, though -- she has minimal tolerance for physical abuse in a relationship and recommends leaving if one's partner has seriously hurt the reader more than once. Okay, I mentally add "unconsentually," ala the Lesbian Sex Mafia's BDSM is NOT Abuse pamphlet.

A dominant who does not take my boundaries and limits into consideration does not, in my opinion, respect me. If it's a memory issue, then they should have enough concern for me to brush up on their Mustardseed facts before each play session. Repeated broken promises and other lies are, to me, the cornerstone of a loveless relationship.

Negotiation is about control: it's difficult to engage in power exchange if the submissive party doesn't have any to hand over, or if the person I'm negotiating with doesn't understand that it's an exchange. The fact that I've allowed a dominant control over me -- rather than just let them bully me into it -- is one of the adjustments that I carry into relationship books.

(in reply to junecleaver)

Post #: 10

RE: love and respect - 2/27/2007 7:06:41 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

you wont get love or respect from a man, if you allow yourself to be controlled.

My knee jerk reaction to this was to say that most of these books were probably written by 'femanazies' or weak male apologists; however considering human nature for what it is I can see where this can occur.

Just look around on this website. Do you really believe that all the self professed subs, or doms for that matter, have dominant or submissive desires? At best most want a new experience. Most are here to get laid; having no concept or desire for a M/s or D/s relationship.

Abuse is what happens when a submissive personality emotionally commits to a dominant foreployer. The possibility of it happening is great. A one sided D/s relationship is no different than one sided love. In love its hopeless and emotionally painful. In D/s it is just as hopeless and you add physical pain to the emotions. The opportunity to control and abuse a person who in their nature submits is huge. Sometimes the abuse is the only attention given and it interpreted as an example of "love".

Is love and respect possible within this dynamic? Well, there is no one in this world I respect more than beth, and it would be impossible to love anyone more deeply. This was accomplished because beth came to me as much as a strong woman as she was a submissive woman. she experienced abuse first hand and knew to avoid it. her submissive desires aside, she went about her search aggressively and intelligently. she took responsibility for herself right up to the moment that she surrendered to me. she didn't surrender to me until I had earned that level of trust; not by contrived "tests" but by living life together and observing how I interacted not only with her, but others in my life.

she didn't come to a website seeking "love or respect". Like most of us, she came seeking the same sensations. But she was open to the concept of love. Whoever she encountered she required respect. she has respect for herself and always has. she went through the process of knowing herself and drew upon that knowledge to intelligently analyze the opportunities that came her way.

I was fortunate to be one of the "opportunities" four years ago as of March 1st. The "love and respect" is mutual.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 2/27/2007 7:07:55 AM >

(in reply to GoddessGreed)

Post #: 11

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 7:08:53 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessGreed
If you read any 'relationship rescue' books, listen to any marriage counsellers etc etc, they all say, you wont get love or respect from a man, if you allow yourself to be controlled. Itd be interesting to hear both dom and sub views on this...

Because the people who need rescuing are the ones who lack control of anything, don't know how to stand up for themselves and how to build respect for themselves and their own lives.

Even in Ms, slaves are useless in relationships if they are not mature and responsible adults. It takes strong people to make strong relationships.

And it's not about control- it's about authority.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to GoddessGreed)

Post #: 12

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 7:15:31 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

it depends on whether or not you seek out a loving and respectful man to control you. there are assholes everywhere; dominants are no exception. but that doesn't mean all dominants are assholes. :)

(in reply to GoddessGreed)

Post #: 13

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 7:24:37 AM

myobedience

Posts: 472
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mustardseed

A dominant who does not take my boundaries and limits into consideration does not, in my opinion, respect me. If it's a memory issue, ***** then they should have enough concern for me to brush up on their Mustardseed facts before each play session. **** Repeated broken promises and other lies are, to me, the cornerstone of a loveless relationship.

Sir wrote
"Limits by no means need to be strictly sexual. I was referring to such, but I see no reason that they need to be." i 100% agree. i think we all tend to think limits and boundaries are for sexual related issues, but how many times do we read a sub profile that says "I am NOT a doormat, buy one at Menards."We should all have boundaries and limits on what is expected behaviour from our "other" other than just the sexual ones.

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you is the only Man truly worthy of being called Master.

(in reply to Mustardseed)

Post #: 14

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 8:06:02 AM

GoddessGreed

Posts: 93
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline

Thanks for all the interesting replies :)

_____________________________

you have only ONE advantage over me, you can kiss my ass and i cant!!

(in reply to myobedience)

Post #: 15

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 8:10:21 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

I think these books refer to the "bad" type of control whereas a woman ceases to be a human being and becomes an object of abuse. I mean REAL abuse. Some women like to be controlled and if that floats their boats so be it, definitely not my thing. I am a feminist and I see nothing wrong with the D/s dynamic as long as both people are happy, no one gets hurt in a bad way and most of all its consenual.

I have learnt over the years you have to take what you read/hear with a grain of salt. Take what may apply to you and toss the rest.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to GoddessGreed)

Post #: 16

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 8:11:33 AM

MasterGremlin

Posts: 230
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessGreed

If you read any 'relationship rescue' books, listen to any marriage counsellers etc etc, they all say, you wont get love or respect from a man, if you allow yourself to be controlled. Itd be interesting to hear both dom and sub views on this...

Having been in a "controlling" relationship as described, I agree, but the difference is CONSENT. I never consented to being controlled by him which makes it abuse.
Cordially,
minxy

(in reply to GoddessGreed)

Post #: 17

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 8:55:16 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

I know too many loving and respectful Male Dom/fem sub ( and Male Master/fem slave) relationships to agree with that sentiment. Perhaps the books are saying that the women in the relationships should be mentally and emotionally healthy and not allow their core boundary issues to be crossed. That issue isn't about being controlled or not, that issue is about good mental health.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to GoddessGreed)

Post #: 18

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 9:57:28 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessGreed

If you read any 'relationship rescue' books, listen to any marriage counsellers etc etc, they all say, you wont get love or respect from a man, if you allow yourself to be controlled. Itd be interesting to hear both dom and sub views on this...

Funny, that has not been my experience, but it would depend on what is meant by "control" "love" and "respect"

I think that in the traditional sense of the word there is less respect in D/s relationships than others. I mean it is his way ultimately, he makes the decisions, and many people perceive this as a lack of respect within the relationship. They equate respect with having equal say, being able to make their own decisions based upon their opinions. It is not the same for many doing D/s, is it? I feel respected, but not in the traditional vanilla sense of the word.

The word control gets used in a negative way also. Someone controlling another is perceived as a lack of respect in and of itself. In the vanilla world "controlling" equals "abuse", how can you be controlling loving and respectful at the same time? Of course the simple answer is that some of us consent to this and seek it, and we are not like our vanilla counterpart.

If vanilla friend expressed to me that her man was controlling, disrespectful of her desires, I would equate this with a lack of love for her and think she was being abused if she was unhappy about it. I would assume this was not consensual. I do not think that the words of "experts" can even be applied to power exchange relationships... they are their own animal. That is not to say that abuse and negative controlling does not happen in D/s, but as long as everyone is happy, that is the real key

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to GoddessGreed)

Post #: 19

RE: love and repect - 2/27/2007 2:45:06 PM

bastardandthewen

Posts: 40
Joined: 11/3/2006
Status: offline

I gave up long ago paying attention to what books, movies, tv, and hell, even what my friends and parents told me about love and relationships.

Why? They are not living MY relationship. No one knows me better then me, and so I tossed all advice where it belongs- in the rubbish, and began to listen to what was right for me.

And that is when I found my first balanced and peaceful relationship. I can't reccomend it enough.

I'm a complete control freak; I find it hard to give in to someone else - find it hard to beleive anyone could do things better then I could - egotistical, I know. But I was delighted to find a partner in whom I could trust enough to let go - and even more surprised to find there is a measure of freedom gained in giving control to someone else. It's my only time to "check out" from the stress of everyday life- let go and not think about pressures of work, what have you; just be whatever my partner wants me to be in that moment in time, without thinking.

Love and respect? I'm confident I have both, unconditionally.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 20

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