RE: Expectations of a Mistress....

RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (Full Version)

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BeatMeDaily -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/24/2007 3:26:53 PM)
MissEnchantress, in a social setting as that and with his submission Your expectations are fine, it's the submissiveness that's out of line here i'd say. Maybe he was looking for a power play to shock the crowd or himself even. Social graces are falling behind now a days, maybe it's a lesson W/we should all take in. Your manners were perfect here, even in Your reprimand.

porthuronsub -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/24/2007 3:27:14 PM)
exactly, well said

mp072004 -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/24/2007 4:38:02 PM)
Agreed, kink does not trump good manners. [Well, mostly--when actively scening, different manners can apply, just as intercourse results in a revision of manners.] If a person is standing blocking an empty seat, it's perfectly all right to ask him or her whether he or she wants the seat, and if he or she says "No," then you may take it. This is polite and assertive. It is less than courteous--though not horribly rude--to block a seat by standing in its way. Dog in the manger and all that. But this instance exemplifies a larger issue. I am partly in agreement with TammyJo--there seems a mismatch of expectations here. People are obliged to ask for what they want--dominants, submissives, slaves, and everyone else--and not only make requests, gain agreement from the people who will obey those requests. MissEnchantress, it's not clear to me whether you had previously asked your slave to attend you and show extra courtesies, beyond good manners. If you'd like your slave to attend on you, you should express, at least generally and preferably specifically, exactly how you want him to do that. It is certainly rude to attend on someone without his or her permission, and perhaps this is the rule your slave was following. If you've asked him to attend you and he has agreed, and he remains insufficiently attentive and courteous, then you can quite legitimately complain. Monica

subrob1967 -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/24/2007 4:52:20 PM)
I'd say he wasn't much of a "slave" if he didn't put all of your needs above his, even in a nilla setting. It seems to me he was using the nilla setting to disregard his place in the relationship.

bflosub -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/26/2007 9:19:24 AM)
as the subject of this discussion, and having only found out yesterday that i was being vilified in this forum, i felt i should rebut this posting. this is done with permission from Mistress is unedited by Her, and, i believe, a slightly more objective point of view: Mistress and i were at a low-protocol function with vanilla friends. it should be noted that we were at our hosts' home for a dinner party where every couple brings a dish to pass... (as a proper slave, i cooked the dish for the last event like this, and i had picked up the booze and groceries for this one.) with the exception of the situation mentioned, i believe i was fairly attentive, and, while having a good time, and had guessed wrongly as to why Mistress wasn't enjoying Herself. i was sitting because i was engaged in conversation with one of our friends -- and Mistress was standing because She had been cooking. i had had no idea that She had finished because She was still standing in the same place, only facing us and our hostess. i want to note that i know about manners, and i consider myself a gentleman. i'm not some sort of cad who doesn't hold open doors for ladies. this was not some sort of power-play, i always open the door for Her entering/exiting the car, and i never sit before She is seated by myself or the matre'de when we go out to dinner. the difference between those situations and this is that i was given a reasonable expectation that She was planning to sit; all Mistress had to do was interrupt during a pause in the conversation, or even make a gesture with Her hand or a nod of Her head and i'd have gotten up for Her to sit. i don't think anybody would consider that action on Her part "rude". *a sub is not* a mind-reader*, and i've only been serving Her for a few months. a Domme doesn't* need a man to validate Her right to sit by inviting Her to do so. in fact, no woman does, and expecting him to do so in this situation sounds to me a little too much like the problem a boy encounters with the proverbial girl in high school who expects her boyfriend to instantaneously treat her the way her father treats her mother -- without the years of training it took her mother to make him that way. (see pilot episode of "Roseanne"). it is my humble opinion that having Her expectations be attended to by simply staring at me was not very Dominatrixy. having more information, does every Domme out there still want to leave me swinging in the breeze?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/26/2007 9:35:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bflosub having more information, does every Domme out there still want to leave me swinging in the breeze? I think most of us said that this was mainly an issue of miscommunication and lack of understood expectations. In that particular circumstance, I still would have asked if my partner was ok and if they wanted to sit down. It has nothing to do with Ds, nothing to do with gender (I'm female, he's male), and simple to do with wanting those around me to be comfortable and relaxed. That's just how I am. The part that is the key here, for me, is your suggestion that it's somehow "not dominatrixy" to not make a fuss when someone else is doing something considered inappropriate. Not making a fuss is pretty much EXACTLY how a person should act in a social situation when there's a miscommunication issue- again, not a Ds thing, not a gender thing, just a social manners thing. You're defensive over this, which is naturally understandable, but it doesn't help your cause at all. You weren't less than a good sub and she wasn't less than a good dom- you simply lacked some communication that night and now you know to work on it for the future.

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/26/2007 1:36:26 PM)
quote: IMO kinky trappings NEVER trump good manners. Absolutely spot on. However not knowing both sides of the story it's hard to say whether it was inattentiveness or simply miscommunication. Personally I state clearly that I expect anyone I am to consider to be a gentleman, I've even gone so far as giving lessons in exactly the type of gentlemanly behavior I expect in any given situation if they are unaware of such things to begin with. edited because I posted at th same time as bflosub...in this instance I would go with miscommunication of expected behavior. No fault on either party. Simply a need to communicate further in any following situations.

lonlyrossInNeed -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/26/2007 3:00:47 PM)
I agree and i also agree

MistressDiane -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/26/2007 3:13:42 PM)
I still say it's a lack of manners. If you saw her standing there it's only polite to excuse yourself from the conversation momentarily and simply ask her if she would like a seat. At that point she could have accepted or declined. As LA said it had nothing to do with anything really but manners.

fortifiedsqual -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/26/2007 4:07:20 PM)
Even aside from the seat situation, what did this person think he was doing when he told You that You should have ordered him to seat You? Topping from the bottom is he?

MissEnchantress -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/27/2007 8:39:24 AM)
Thank you for your wonderful replies... I've some of my own I will be posting. Had a few internet issues.

MissEnchantress -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/27/2007 8:42:33 AM)
I was very angry. On the flip side I wasnt 100% sure I was in the right. (One of the reasons I thought to post here) I have several types of dyslexia (hence the horrific mis-spellings) one of which causes Me to mis-cue in social situations (one of the reasons I love the communication of the lifestyle). I took some time to think about it. Then we had a discussion about it - which still continues. The original discussion devolved into an arguement. Ah humanness. My next steps will be specific instructions and training. I also have him reading a book on communication. I really abhore his back talking... However I dont think anyone has expected him to use his words in a polite and tactful manner. I have met his mother and she has a similar communication style. I know what it is like to be at a disadvantage in the social arena... So I think I may be a bit more patient then others. It took Me years of tutoring to even realize I was insulting people inadvertantly. Then several more years for Me to speak at all at social events. Now I Do pretty well. But it is a hard road he you have no one to help you. quote: ORIGINAL: mam Your slave was rude to you and then insulted you. I am curious, what was your reaction? mam

MissEnchantress -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/27/2007 8:43:56 AM)
While I told him that in general I wanted him to act like a gentilman I did not remind him for that night. I did not think I had to tell him what to do. He has always opened doors for Me and pulled out My seat at the restaurant. Given those habits I did not realize that 'pay attention to my Mistress and when she has been standing for some time offer the seat that I am blocking' was not in repitoire. When we discussed this he wants to know how long he should set his watch for to know how long he has to wait before he should offer the seat. I do not think he is being sammy I think he honestly cant tell.

MissEnchantress -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/27/2007 8:51:42 AM)
I do agree there is a mix match of expectations and some miss communications. Working on those....

porthuronsub -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/27/2007 8:53:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissEnchantress When we discussed this he wants to know how long he should set his watch for to know how long he has to wait before he should offer the seat. I do not think he is being sammy I think he honestly cant tell. That sounds pretty sarcastic to me.

MarieEge -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/27/2007 8:54:07 AM)
He is obviously not well trained. One expects that with new slaves, sometimes the Mistress needs to train her slave how to be a gentleman, just as those who do old guard and high protocol have to teach the ins and outs of that.

Hime -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/27/2007 11:39:15 AM)
It's apparent that "you knew at the time" that you wanted the sub to offer his seat to you. As his Dominant and teacher, I feel that it is your obligation to "address any infractions at the moment you take notice of them". Then, readdress the issue later to reinforce the lesson and to ensure that you both agree to what is expected from that point on. ~ xoxo

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/27/2007 11:42:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hime It's apparent that "you knew at the time" that you wanted the sub to offer his seat to you. As his Dominant and teacher, I feel that it is your obligation to "address any infractions at the moment you take notice of them". Then, readdress the issue later to reinforce the lesson and to ensure that you both agree to what is expected from that point on. ~ xoxo Social occasions do not always lend themselves to addressing infractions immediately and in fact might be quite rude to do so.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/27/2007 12:58:28 PM)
Personally I would of expected him to save me a seat. and if he didn't then he could get up while I take the seat. It's far more considerate in my mind, to make sure there is a seat to come sit in once I do come to the table.

Hime -> RE: Expectations of a Mistress.... (2/27/2007 2:05:33 PM)
I can only speak for myself.... Given the circumstances and informal atmosphere (a potluck at a Friends home), I would have politely inducted myself into the conversion, asked for the seat, and gestured to my sub to sit on the floor snuggly against me, as we all engaged in conversation. That would have taken care of the issue and, after the party I would have gone into detail of what would be expected of him in the future. As for addressing infractions in a public setting....it all comes down to "tact". ~ xoxo

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