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Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 9:41:42 PM   
MistressYlwa


Posts: 263
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline 		Was reading a blog on another site, which brought up this discussion. The statement made was:
 
"In order to be a good dominant, you must first submit to someone else. Only then can you understand submission and your role as a dominant".
 
I took a bit of offense, though not sure why. I was a slave before taking my place as a dominant female. But was only a slave due to circumstance, not consent. I was a bad slave, of course. Argumentative, rebellious, antagonistic. With the help of my mentor, I was able to "come out" as a dominant and I have never looked back.
 
However, back to the topic, I do understand slavery and know what I demand of my slaves. I do feel that my knowledge has made me a better dominant to my slaves. However, I don't think it has made me any better a dominant, than any of the other dominants I know, personally. I have met any number of dominants, over the last 30 yrs, that seem to understand their slaves just as well as I do and less than a handful have served another. Yet, perhaps, others have a different opinion and I would be happy to consider any or all.
 
I am asking this question, with the understanding that the dominants responding, new and established, are well versed and trained/training in their areas of fetish. I would like to know how submissives feel about this, as well, in relation to the one who might, in time, dominate them.
 
So my question is - Is submission a better foundation for a dominant, or is having a dominant nature and acting on it better for a dominant.
 
One of my favorite quotes expresses my personal opinion on this.

"When making a decision of minor importance, I have always found it advantageous to consider all the pros and cons. In vital matters, however, such as the choice of a mate or a profession, the decision should come from the unconscious, from somewhere within ourselves. In the important decisions of personal life, we should be governed, I think, by the deep inner needs of our nature."
--Sigmund Freud

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 9:42:54 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_811560/mpage_2/key_implement/tm.htm#811799
Should a dominant be subjected to the same implements that he subjects his submissive to?

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 9:43:41 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline 		Would... say... 17 years of slavery, abuse, neglect and torture count?

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 9:46:29 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I always enjoy this topic and can see validity in this point, so my answer is probably yes.
But as someone who was born a Dominant woman from the womb to the tomb, I will not
be able to experience life as a submissive.
So you always have a variety of camps of thought.
I have nightmares about being a submissive and my blood pressure goes up, so it is not a
real possiblity for me.

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 9:55:06 PM   
MistressYlwa


Posts: 263
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline 		LA,

I do appreciate the link. But I was not talking about S/m, specifically. I was speaking in terms of D/s. More towards the areas of service and emotions, rather than scenes.

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You see what power is - holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them! - Amy Tan

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 9:58:17 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Ylwa- yes and those issues are explicitly discussed as well within the 80+ posts.

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 10:04:23 PM   
freakgoddess


Posts: 48
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline 		i'm never going to submit to anybody, and i don't care what submissives think about it.

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 10:07:27 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline 		What if I said pretty please?

*bats eyelashes and other cute stuff*

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 10:15:57 PM   
freakgoddess


Posts: 48
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 10:18:11 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I am waiting for the thread, "does a submissive have to be a dominant to learn how to submit" thread

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 10:18:34 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline 		I think I am wearing her down. Six or seven thousand more posts and I might have her.

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 10:20:31 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freakgoddess

i'm never going to submit to anybody, and i don't care what submissives think about it.
\

Hell yes, thats what I am talkin bout.

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To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 10:43:53 PM   
MissDiscipline


Posts: 117
Joined: 10/1/2006
From: Domme Beach Calif
Status: offline 		 Surely you jest?  

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 11:25:21 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		To me this analogy is as futile as saying you hafta have a gay experience to appreciate being hetero (or vice versa).
 
Thing is, I'm simply not wired to be gay and nor am I wired to submit.  I've had enough general experiences over a 50 year lifetime to know I don't react well to those trying to assert themselves at me, never mind actually trying to control me!  Blood has even been spilt....
 
Submission is definitely not a better foundation to THIS Dominant - I don't have the "tools" for it....
 
Focus.

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 11:28:03 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I am waiting for the thread, "does a submissive have to be a dominant to learn how to submit" thread


amen!  

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/17/2007 11:40:25 PM   
BabyNyla


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline
I sometimes think it's important.  Over summer my dom used a cane on me for his first time.  I like it so it's not a big deal, but he was a bit too rough and ended up cutting me pretty bad.  A few days later we were messing around and I hit him with the cane only one time.  He didn't welt or get cut but for the whole day he complained about how bad it had stung and that his skin was a little red.  He hadn't thought that a cane had that much impact.  He is young and still has a lot to learn and I sometimes think it'd be better for him to submit to someone and to learn how certain things feel and what can happen as an end result.  I can teach him since I have 9 years of experience ... but I don't like to have to teach him because then it puts me back in that darn fiesty domme mentality ... which is not good.


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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/18/2007 4:45:31 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Add my amen to the chorus

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/18/2007 4:47:11 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		This probably has its origins with what has become known as "The Old Guard."  Many of these gay groups limited admission to those who were willing to bottom initially.  Stripped of the verbage that surrounded it, I pretty much see it as a con job so the old guys had plenty of young, hot bodies available.

In practice, I've seen a number of excellent dominants who have come this route, but that's offset by a number of absolutely awful ones who followed the same approach.  Generally, the bad ones operated on the "I don't need to ask what you want; I bottomed so I know what a bottom needs."  

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/18/2007 4:52:52 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressYlwa

"In order to be a good dominant, you must first submit to someone else. Only then can you understand submission and your role as a dominant".
 


*rubs the knot on his forehead*

Aww....geez....getting thumped with a Leather Bible really hurts!

Now...in my opinion...

Its an experience that provides information and knowledge and the jist of this topic is the "Well, your way is stupid, my way is the best." logic.

I can learn how to do a double limb bondage techinque by either...

a) reading the book, Erotic Bondage and practicing on myself via the instructions until I master it
b) reading a website on bondage and doing the same as above
c) having someone show me in real time.and then practicing until I master it.

Some people will wear slam their foot in the ground and say "You cannot learn BDSM from a book. You have to have a teacher" Well, I am laughing at them because I did option a) with all my bondage skills. Learning from a mentor type is better than learning from a book if the mentor actually knows what he is doing.

Of course, if I were to try and learn something like needle play from a book, many people (including myself) would call me "stupid".

A dominant can learn to understand submission by...

a) experiencing it first hand
b) talking to submissives about their experiences and using empathy and imagination

Which source of information is better?

Well...personally...if I were to be told to kneel, I would probably tell them to go and fuck themselves so I doubt I would be experiencing real submission.

So I trust my intiellgence, empathy and imagination mixed with all the information I have collected from conversations and IM chats with submissives who actually experience it the way it should be.

Yes, a lot of awesome dominants were submissives

Yes, spending time as a submissive provides more merit for one's self when dealing with other submissives.

But if you cant get into the headspace and the mentality, then its probably not something for you.

However...I think with some self awareness and self growth that one day I could get into the mentality, but it would take a lot of deep respect for someone for me to enter service to them. One day, I hope to give it a shot and hope that wild dog in me doesnt grit its teeth and bite the handlers.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 2/18/2007 4:55:06 AM >

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RE: Submit to Dominate - 2/18/2007 6:55:11 AM   
needdiscipline23


Posts: 106
Joined: 5/14/2005
Status: offline 		I don't see how getting hit with an object tells you what it feels like to be a submissive--it tells you what getting hit with an object feels like.

My Domme did start as a sub...as far as I can tell, this doesn't mean too much about how or whether she understands me...she seems to understand me quite well, b/c she's been topping subs for over 20 years.

I don't think that someone who acts as a submissive for awhile necessarily understands better what it is to be a submissive.

Can they understand what it feels like to have someone else's pleasure be a source of joy? Or what it feels like to enjoy being hit b/c you know it makes someone else happy? Or how the words "good girl" can make you feel like you conquered the world?

I think "tops" of any kind can understand these things, to varying degrees, but I don't think submitting themselves to another really teaches them that....at least, it doesn't necessarily teach them that.

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