RE: Submit to Dominate (Full Version)

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VeryMercurial -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/18/2007 7:02:27 AM)

As many before me have stated, everyone is not hard wired to be a submissive.
If you can't do it, you simply can't do it.  Many Dominants could never play the
role of a submissive in a D/s relationship.



blmtrsne -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/18/2007 4:07:39 PM)

I really don't see what the connection is between being a sub first and then be a better domminant unless...I've been raised by a stern father, and revolted against it. It might have formed my character.



thetammyjo -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/18/2007 4:11:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I am waiting for the thread, "does a submissive have to be a dominant to learn how to submit" thread[:D]


This is something I've wondered too.

Why is it that often the top role person is told they must experience the other side but the bottom role person is not told to do the same thing?

I actually don't believe there is one way that everyone needs to do or learn things -- each person learns differently and each person will process things differently -- but for some reason there seems to be a big need in some folks to find the rules or the way or the universal.



losttreasure -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/18/2007 4:40:01 PM)

The idea that a good dominant learns by first submitting seems very wrong to me... on a couple of levels. 

Foremost because it suggests that domination and submission are merely roles that we play.  While I wouldn't go so far as to adopt the "slave heart" school of thought on submission, I do know that submissiveness is a significant part of my personality... not just something I do.  I don't feel that a dominant simply mimicking the behavior of a submissive is going to learn much of anything beyond the surface aspects, and even then, only if they are truly open to it.

Which brings me to the other rather large issue I have with this idea.  This is going to sound very narrow-minded, but I'm not sure I could submit to a man that I know once submitted to someone else.  I realize that we all submit in life to varying degrees... whether submitting to an employer or to the law of the land.  But just knowing that he once willingly allowed himself to be dominated by another in this fashion... well, I would see it as a chink in his armor.  A weakness. 

I'm just not confident I would be able to have the same level of respect or develop the same trust in him as I would were he to not experience the submissive role.  I'm don't know if it's because I would always wonder if his dominance was simply learned role, or if I would somehow see it as having less confidence in his natural dominant abilities.

At any rate, I am very thankful that FirmHandKY does not subscribe to this belief.



MadRabbit -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/18/2007 5:22:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Why is it that often the top role person is told they must experience the other side but the bottom role person is not told to do the same thing?



In my understanding of the ideology behind it, a dominant submits to a more experienced dominant so they can learn how to submit and then teach the craft to their potential submissives. Its the traditional role that the dominant is the teacher in the relationship. Its a leather concept that isnt too popular in the mainstream BDSM world. Submissives dont need to be dominants to learn how to submit because the dominants are supposed to teach them, but the dominants submit to other experienced dominants to learn how to teach.

Some people swear to me this is the only way to do it and other people swear to me that is completely the wrong way to do it. Like everything else in BDSM/Leather, its whatever works for you.



DiurnalVampire -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/18/2007 5:27:32 PM)

Personally, I have never had the desire or inclination to submit.  Nor have I ever met someone I believe could truly give myself to. I dont think I am a better or worse dominant for not having a submissive side.  Ive always done wiat came naturally with whichever partner I was with.  I dont feel like I am missing out on understanding the sub psyche.
No one ever made a comment about living life as a man to make a better wife so I dont see why spending time as a sub would make me a better Domme.

Just my opinion.
DV



MistressYlwa -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/18/2007 10:46:16 PM)

Has been interesting reading everyones responses. While the post I quoted does not express my opinion, I thought it was worth exploring. My submission was my first exposure to the lifestyle, so did not have anyone to help me explore my desires, other than the dominant that I was with. So it was not something I found, but was something I was lead to. I met my mentor after that relationship ended. And I will be eternally grateful to her, both for her teaching and support.
 
I thing the person who made the original post was thinking along the same lines as MadRabbit, though they were not as clear as he was. Thanks, MadRabbit



topcat -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/19/2007 4:35:51 AM)

M. Ylwa-
 
It seems to me that answers to this question always flounder on the shoals of definition. Many seem to see 'submission' as an internal state, and it is understandable that for many, it is just that.
 
When I first made the scene in the mid- eigthies, my entry was via serving an experianced dominant (Major Thom S.)as a sort of valet/snapman/caddy, and on a few occasions, bottoming to him, in a more or less instructional mode, and was usually followed by my repeating the lesson as top. In some instances, Major Thom would invite another top to demonstate the technique on either me or himself.
 
I can't really call that submission- it never 'clicked' for me internally, I never went to that place that some subbmissives go, but I can't class it as strictly bottoming (in the classic sense) either.
 
There were some valuable lessons for me, that I likely would not have gotten without it, and for me, overall, it was an important part of shaping me as the man I am today.
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence



MadamTee -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/20/2007 1:31:12 PM)

Dears ...
I know that everyone has their opinion on this but I will say that even though I know that I was "born" a dominant woman and successfully handled submissives prior to ... the time that I spent at the feet of an elderly Sen-sei in Japan not only shaped My future ideas and beliefs, but that of My hubby as well {He is also dominant in nature}.
 
Was it necessary for Me to be a Domme and to handle submissives - no!  Is it valuable to do so?  If the dominant to whom you submit yourself is one highly skilled and respected, it is priceless!!



ravenairsprite -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/20/2007 2:03:45 PM)

quote:

I realize that we all submit in life to varying degrees... whether submitting to an employer or to the law of the land.


Precisely! Why would A Dom/me, Master/Mistress need to submit to another Dom/me, Master/Mistress in order to learn? It is not necassarily necassary. You get a taste of those experiences just through every day life. Now don't get me wrong for some Dom/mes, Master/Mistresses the learning from someone else route is better. However there are some who just naturally have a Dominant streak and get a tiny inkling of understanding through vanilla world experiences.

I hope I made sense there. Sometimes the way I'm thinking and the words I say don't always quite match up.



MadRabbit -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/20/2007 3:23:35 PM)

You make perfect sense.

You can learn a lot about power exchange by doing a little thinking and examining of power and authority in the vanilla world. I wrote a few essays on the nature of power before I got heavily into BDSM. Dominace and submission isnt merely something that applies to BDSM by a long shot. You can learn more from philosophy books on power, responsibility, influence, etc then you ever will from the BDSM books out there.



Aine -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/20/2007 3:31:00 PM)

BOO!

hehehe

To the op:

Anyone who says anything is definite (other than themselves...because we all know that they can live in their own little worlds) is greatly mistaken.

One does not have to sub to understand a sub, or to be a better Dominant.  And on that note, if so many people think so, how come I never hear one damned thing about a sub "having to" Dom/me in order to understand a Dom/me?

Bullhonkey to me.  Do it if it floats ya boat, don't if it don't.  Simple. (to me at least lol)



PsyVamp -> RE: Submit to Dominate (2/20/2007 4:28:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine

BOO!

hehehe

To the op:

Anyone who says anything is definite (other than themselves...because we all know that they can live in their own little worlds) is greatly mistaken.

One does not have to sub to understand a sub, or to be a better Dominant.  And on that note, if so many people think so, how come I never hear one damned thing about a sub "having to" Dom/me in order to understand a Dom/me?

Bullhonkey to me.  Do it if it floats ya boat, don't if it don't.  Simple. (to me at least lol)



I agree here.  If I were to sub, it wouldn't mean that I understand anything except my own mind.  It would not help me as a dominant to another person because they would be a separate entity with their own feelings/desires/motivations.

Mistress Psy



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