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Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 7:47:32 PM   
Poetica


Posts: 5
Joined: 12/25/2005
Status: offline 		I've got an idea and it revolves around training submissives in the school of etiquette and formalized knowledge. However, I would like to/need to know if anything currently exists in lifestyle/BDSM-land? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely,

Poetica
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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 8:31:23 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
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Status: offline 		the back of my hand...and a G.E.D.

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 8:32:42 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Please at least have an equally intensive program for dominants.  Lord knows they need it as much.

Frankly if an adult doesn't have manners by the time they become an adult, I don't see the point in wasting energy trying.

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 8:35:13 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
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Status: offline 		The easy button has spoken, and it was good.

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 8:36:00 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		First of ettiquette does not have a single school even in non BDSM venues there are dozens of ettiquette sets.

Ettiquette french derived from having a ticket, meaning your knowledge of manners of the French Court. Which would not mean you also had the same knowledge level for the Russoan Court, or the English Court, or any number of Italian Courts.

Within BDSM you have at least 4 or 5 very different ettiquette sets, Leather (East Coast and West Coast differe some even within Leather) Hetero BDSM groups in the NE US have a very different ettiquette set than those in the SE US, etc.

Most of them though draw from either a military service manual or Emily Post.

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 8:36:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Please at least have an equally intensive program for dominants.  Lord knows they need it as much.

Frankly if an adult doesn't have manners by the time they become an adult, I don't see the point in wasting energy trying.


Because some people have a protocol fetish, and I suppose a highy ritualized education in some form of ettiquette might get some people hot. I just wonder, will there be online courses

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 8:37:10 PM   
wyldsubmissive


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

The easy button has spoken, and it was good.


Shouldn't that be in Ye Olde English?

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 8:39:00 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Any basic book of manners will do. Now if you're talking serving seven course meals, you have to first train the dominant to sit there for three hours while being served a tasting menu.

And what is appropriate manners at a state dinner is inappropiate at a backyard barbecue. Learning specific manners is easy, learning when you use what is the hard part.

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 8:41:21 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline 		Fun fantasy, and could even be (has been) accomplished professionally by dommes running various incarnations of an "academy" that involves this type of slave training.  Though frankly I'd expect that most clientele going through such "training" are doing it mainly to get their fetish jollies. 

I think it would be great fun to have a slave trained in the art of formal waitservice, butler duties, etiquette, etc. Unfortunately in real life it doesn't always work as well as it does in fantasy, and it's the relatively rare D/s couple who has the leisure time for all that.

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 8:42:14 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
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Status: offline 		get a G.E.D.....And don't speak... always chew with your mouth closed.  That is all you need to know.

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 8:53:21 PM   
Poetica


Posts: 5
Joined: 12/25/2005
Status: offline 		Hello A/all,

Part of the reason I requested suggestions and help was to get feedback from the forum members. As such its taking multiple viewpoints into account that I care for specifically.

I would mainly be going off of Amy Vanderbilt's 50th anniversary edition of "[The] Complete Book of Etiquette".

The two sections I found most useful in this idea are "Entertaining with Ease" and "The Art of Communicating". I also wrote a generic list of knowledge (some people honestly don't have these skills).

* Table dining
  -placement of silverware, glasses, plates
  - serving etiquette
  - PROPER dinner conversation
* Basic drink knowledge (I feel it is wise to have a sub or slave know how to pour their Owner a drink after a long day should they request it.)
  - different glasses
  - drink types
  - substitutes for alcoholic drinks
* How to run a bath
  - Ladies, need I say more?
  - How to bathe someone else (this is a very submissive skill, and one that is incredibly intense for both parties)
* Writing letters
  - proper address for certain people
  - use of titles
  - how to end a letter
  - different types of letters

I seek to revive skills that are forgotten or need to be brushed up once more. And yes, LA I would consider doing a course for dominants that would have subtle variants. What they are have yet to be decided though, this is merely a really neat idea.

Online courses would be doable but I believe this is a hands on experience (And not domiguy's "hand" approach either.)

Please continue responding, as I find this incredibly benefical for myself and my reality. Sincerely,

Poetica

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 8:55:10 PM   
Poetica


Posts: 5
Joined: 12/25/2005
Status: offline 		P.S. I do realise that etiquette didn't actually exist until the Victorian era because people wanted to be "cultured".

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 8:58:20 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Actually etiquette is a French word probably traces back to the Middle Ages with courtly love and all such nonsense, and it predates the  Victorian Era

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 9:00:21 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

P.S. I do realise that etiquette didn't actually exist until the Victorian era because people wanted to be "cultured".


I'm not sure that's true, actually. Ancien regime France seemed to have a fair amount of etiquette, and I think it's long been important (perhaps under different names) in Eastern cultures.

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 9:06:10 PM   
domahpet


Posts: 1505
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Santa Rosa
Status: offline 		domiguy, your definition of ediquette is saddening to me, damn that associates degree!

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 9:23:04 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Poetica

P.S. I do realise that etiquette didn't actually exist until the Victorian era because people wanted to be "cultured".


If you examine any culture from hunter-gatherer primitive to North American industrial, you will find it interwoven with innumerable totems and taboos that serve essentially the same social function regardless of whether they state "you must use only a butter knife to cut butter" or "Elk clan hunters must not eat the liver of their totem animal".   Totems and taboos, otherwise known as etiquette, can be quite radically different in different cultures, but tend to have close parallel structures.  It is difficult to look at the structure of your own society's totems and taboos in an objective way, and most people are convinced that the society they themselves live in does not have any. 

Etiquette can be fun as a play toy.  Pick a culture and amuse yourself by adhering to the rules, or making your subbie do so.  But there is really no such thing as universal etiquette, or rules that have any meaning outside their cultural and historical context.  Our society today looks back at the quaint customs of the Victorian age, hemmed about with social and sexual inhibitions, and considers them quite rigid and complex.  But the social customs we  adhere to in North America today are actually equally complex, though they represent quite a different social meme.  You will find the same to be true of the most primitive hunter-gatherer societies still in existence. 

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/12/2007 9:54:57 PM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		Poetic; A few of us are working on something like that here in Ontario. We will likely use information from the Black Rose society in DC and the web sites bestslavetraining.com and mackenziecross.ca. Like us, you will probably have to use information from a few places that talk about protocol and behaviour. As someone else alluded too...some Doms could use a little/lot of guidance as well. It's a worthwhile endeavour and I wish you good luck with it.


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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/13/2007 2:39:57 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		Back in the stone age when i was a young girl, there were "finishing school" which taught how to enter and exit a car, how to stand, sit, walk, set a formal table, set a buffet, the proper way to answer the phone, when to and not to wear gloves, how to write letters and how to write inviations, etc.When my own daughter was 16 i found a "self-development" class run by a modelling agency which accomplished the same thing.  It was a huge boost of self-confidence for her.

My mother taught me that good manners cost nothing but have tremendous value.  Obviously this had nothing to do with BDSM but i have found that early training to continue to be valuable in this lifestyle.


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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/13/2007 4:30:03 AM   
MaryT


Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline 		It reads like a high school life-skills class to me, but good luck with it.
Bathing someone is not a submissive skill, IMO.  Many doms enjoy it. 

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RE: Etiquette houses for BDSMers? - 2/13/2007 4:42:56 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

If you examine any culture from hunter-gatherer primitive to North American industrial, you will find it interwoven with innumerable totems and taboos that serve essentially the same social function regardless of whether they state "you must use only a butter knife to cut butter" or "Elk clan hunters must not eat the liver of their totem animal".   Totems and taboos, otherwise known as etiquette, can be quite radically different in different cultures, but tend to have close parallel structures.  It is difficult to look at the structure of your own society's totems and taboos in an objective way, and most people are convinced that the society they themselves live in does not have any. 

Etiquette can be fun as a play toy.  Pick a culture and amuse yourself by adhering to the rules, or making your subbie do so. 


Your post is so true and i would mention ancient eastern cultures as well where failure to adhere to certain etiquette could cost you your life.
 
Your suggestion to pick a culture and apply aspects to your own relationship is a wonderful idea! i do that in real life already ! LOL!

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