quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

Personally, I'd prefer for Israel to nuke Palestine, Syria and Iran and improve the scenery over there.

TM

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

When Iran calls for the elimination of Israel, they mean the GOVERNMENT, and as a Jew, I agree that the mideast will NEVER get it's shit together with the current government.

ALL RELIGIOUS GOVERNMENTS ARE BAD. Secularism rules.

Jewish, Islamic, or Christian. ALL Religious Governments are bad.

100% accurate. "Wiping off the face of the map" is an English idiom which has no equivalent in Farsi. The speech was deliberately misrepresented. Farsi experts have translated the speech to be "this regime must be removed from the pages of time".

There is heated debate within the British Jewish community at the moment. Some very prominent Jews (actors, politicians, comedians etc) have formed a group of British Jews opposing the actions of the Israeli government and advocating civil rights for Palestinians. By all accounts, the Jewish community is split down the middle.

Edited for spelling

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ORIGINAL: Archer

If they openly admitted to supplying them then maybe one could make a small case if you ignore the fact that one is supplying a government and the other is supplying insergents.

But that is not the case Iran is supplying the insergents covertly, we supply Isreal overtly. Nobody is fooled by us supplying Isreal they can adjust their policy towards us as they see fit. However the accusation that Iran is supplying the insergents is a big ? for many Arab and Muslim countries, who not knowing are unwilling to adjust their policy towards Iran because they are being covert in their supplying of the insergents.

That is the difference in a nutshell.

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ORIGINAL: Rumtiger
Just out of curiosity, and dont pile on me for asking this because it really is a sincere inquiry.
Whats the deal with the anti-Israeli sentiment on these boards? Is there something I should know about?

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ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger


Both excellent posts. William Arkin exposed this {the falsehoods regarding the speech} a while back and was taken to the cleaners for it by Neocon ideologues. The American people believe in this whole false ''decisive ideological struggle '' paradigm because someone wearing a three-thousand suit from one of corporate media networks told them so over and over and over. They just about had it beat into them.

- R

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


UR, the problem with the West?.....delusions of ethnic superiority making Europeans, Americans etc ripe for tried and tested propaganda lines. There are shedloads of speeches which have been deliberately misrepresented and the misrepresentation has subsequently been discredited. The problem is, most don't realise this because you have to hunt 'round the internet for these things.

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ORIGINAL: Archer

Nope not one bit because I believe youintentionally missed the point.
So I'll put it on 5 or 6 font

OPENLY

If they were openly selling or providing them and all was above board I would have no rational leg to stand on.
But they are supplying them covertly, and denying it.

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ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

If a country or the people of a country supplies money or hardwear to kill the civilians and servicemen of your country does that mean you need to shoot and bomb them......... bugger, I'm a Brit in America and they (the Americans) financed and equiped the Provisionals .............. ..................

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Archer:
Insurgent...is that not the term that the nazi's applied to the Free French and the Polish Government in Exile.  Nope, it's  not.  that was the term for the fighters on the   ground in Poland and France. 
These fighters on the ground were fighting for the free french and the polish govt in exile.  I would have thought that would have been pretty obvious.


Can the case not be made that the insurgents in Iraq are in actuality the government we illegally attacked and overthrew.  Perhaps, It could, but it has not been yet.  And it would be incredibly simplistic, there are many different factions fighting for different Goals. 
I would have thought their unifying purpose was to evict the invaders  and their puppet government from their country.

As such, is not the real or imagined arms sales to them an internationally recognized provenance?  IF it was, yes.  But that is not the case
 
????????????????????
 

When Russia and China supplied arms to Viet Nam did the U.S. rattle its sabre and threaten to attack them?  Yes, we did, it was part of the Cold war. 

The cold war started before our involvement in Viet Nam and we never had the balls to try to attack Russia or China as the current administrations is threatning Iran. 
We expressed our displeasure but we never threatened to attack them if they did not stop.



When the U.S. government  supplied arms and troops to overthrow the legally constituted government of Nicaragua was that not a violation of the U.N. charter of which we are a signator and garantor ?  The Contras did not overthrow the Gov of nicaragua, the contras demanded elections, which the Sandinistas lost.  So much for your insitance on letting the locals decide. 

You gotta learn to read english luckydog...I did not say that they were successful in overthrowing the Sandinistas.
Chamorro,  who defeated Ortega in the 1990 election was a Sandinista.


IF it was a violation the UN should have acted. 
The U.S, prevented that.
But the point I was making was that we signed a treaty to do one thing and did the opposite.


Then of course there is the contiuing illegal presence of the U.S. in Cuba.   How is that illegal?
The U.S. has not paid rent in over 20 years.
Then of course there is the question of the legality of the Platt ammendment.
 
 

It all seem more than a bit disingenious.   yes it does
 
It is nice of you to agree.
thompson
 

thompson
LuckyDog

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Iran supplying arms to Iraqui insurgents has upset the US govnt.
What about US  arms supplies to Israel. ?
Is that different ? Only arskin !

Bush is beginning to sound like an echo.

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ORIGINAL: Archer

Wow you make a statement of differences and suddenly you have bought into the whole story.
I made that statement of what the differences are that I see in the situation.
Man this is the worlds worst place for people putting words and ideas not in the original post/ reply into someone elses mouth.

#1 I specificly set asside the idea of insergents vs governments as not central to my statement, but it somehow gets thrust back as if it were.

#2 then the fact that I see a difference is suddenly evidence that I've bought the story as total truth.

Get a grip and actually read what's there people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Wow you make a statement of differences and suddenly you have bought into the whole story.
I made that statement of what the differences are that I see in the situation.
Man this is the worlds worst place for people putting words and ideas not in the original post/ reply into someone elses mouth.

#1 I specificly set asside the idea of insergents vs governments as not central to my statement, but it somehow gets thrust back as if it were.

#2 then the fact that I see a difference is suddenly evidence that I've bought the story as total truth.

Get a grip and actually read what's there people.

quote:


They would also deny it if they weren't supplying them covertly, eh?

And what with all the credibility the US *doesn't have anymore*, who *really* believes what "Unnamed Sources" have to say anymore?

We just don't BELIEVE what George has to say anymore, so if there's *EVIDENCE* he got to show it, WITH people willing to GO TO PRISON if they're lying.