when are you no longer a submissive? (Full Version)

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taintedgypsy -> when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 11:01:59 AM)

I find peace sitting at His feet, pleasure in serving Him a cup of tea, joy and comfort in the circle of His arms, and terrible pain at the loss of His collar. Yet I have questioned His decisions, argued with His direction and ceased to trust in Him to a degree that has driven Him to distraction and bought about this sad turn of events.

12 months ago I moved across the country and left all my friends, family and daughter to be closer to Him. I took on a job about 2 hours away from him, a stressful demanding job with long hours. I work so many hours that I have made no friends here, and they are all men that I work with and they go home to their wives and children and do not socialize with me. I spend most of my time alone in an old quarry site, or alone at home. I am exhausted both physically and mentally, and feel that life has been out of control for some time now. Exhaustion and loneliness during the week and then desperate neediness on the week end have turned our lives into a nightmare.

So much change and growth that I no longer even recognize the woman in the mirror and I am not sure I like her either. There were a couple of unfortunate instances where punishment went horribly wrong and triggered some nasty things from my past and left a mass of distrust behind that neither of us has been able to fix.

I am stronger and surer of myself than I have ever been, yet I have lost so much. He has tried to direct, tried to pull me back on track, but for months I have fought Him at every turn. Why do I fight against what I want and need? Why do I question what has been carefully thought out and fashioned for my best interest? Why can I not put things behind me and trust in Him the way I did before all of this?

Is it possible to change so dramatically in just one year? Have I lost my submissive heart and if so what the hell am I now, but miserable, distraught and lost.

I have handed in my notice at work, and plan on going back to my family and friends for a couple of weeks. I will take sanctuary at my best friend’s orchard and try and find some peace to think things through and reflect on all that has happened.

Have other submissives lost their way and found the right path again?
Are there other submissives that have lost trust but managed to rebuild that which was torn apart?
Are their others who have managed to pull themselves back and regain their place at His feet?
Is it possible that I am not submissive? That this whole journey has been for nothing?



MagiksSlave -> RE: when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 11:11:02 AM)

Hon you left everything you knew and loved to be with this man... There are things that arent within our controll and it is unfortunate but maby he wasnt the right one after all.. In my opinion you are doing to right thing for yourself by going back to friends and family to a place that is safe to you.. you really cant expect to make the changes you had to make and remain the same person. Giveing up so much you may not have been getting enough in return to make the change worth makeing.. It sounds from what you said that even after the move you werent seeing him very much and that some of the things he was doing was causeing you emotional distress.. Even all the happyness haveing a Master can bring it may not be enough if everything you have to do to get said Master makes you so un happy.. I do hope I made somce sence.

Magik's slave



ownedgirlie -> RE: when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 11:37:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy

Have other submissives lost their way and found the right path again?
Are there other submissives that have lost trust but managed to rebuild that which was torn apart?
Are their others who have managed to pull themselves back and regain their place at His feet?
Is it possible that I am not submissive? That this whole journey has been for nothing?


I had asked myself these very questions at one point.  The conclusion I came to, with the help of a friend who understood her own slavery and helped me see mine, is this:

I am most at home when I am a slave to him, as I understand slave to mean.  When I behave in a way that is disobedient, then I am not being his slave, and I am lost.  When I make demands of him, I am not being his slave.  When I project my expectations as to how he is to live and run me, I am not being his slave.  When I resent him and distrust that his decisions are for the greater good, even if they hurt me at the time, I am not being his slave.

And yet I need to be his slave.

Recognizing this - my need to be who I am - helped me overcome all the doubts, the angst, the worry that I felt.  If I am to be true to myself, then I must be his slave and that means accepting all that comes with being enslaved to this particular man, even if I don't think I like all of it.  That means accepting his infallibility, and that his decisions will not be the right ones 100% of the time.  I'd say he has about a 5% error rate.  The other 95% of the time, he is spot on, and has brought me to where I need to be inside myself.  Knowing this, and knowing that where I feel most at home is with him, I must accept that 5%, and I must not fight against it when it occurs; rather trust that he is always doing what he feels is best at the time.

People are going to tell you what to do - some will say leave, some will say stay and deal with it, and most will say talk it out.  I can only advise to look into yourself, and ask yourself what it means to be true to yourself.  You will find your answers within.

Maybe your peace will be found outside of submitting.  Maybe your peace will be found in understanding what your submission is and accepting it.  Only you will know these answers.  I do wish you well with this.



taintedgypsy -> RE: when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 11:59:36 AM)

thanks ownedgirlie,

I feel that some time of peace among the trees of the orchard where I have always felt safe and secure will give me the space to examine the me inside and find out where I am ... I also hope that getting away from this job will help heal some of the outer concerns ... 3:30am starts and days that don't finish till 5pm or 7pm are just destroying me, maybe 20 yrs ago but I have done the hard yards and I am just worn out and really not up to this sort of grueling hours anymore. The work is very manual alot of the time and that is not helping at all ... Then I slipped on a ladder on the side of a tanker and tore my shoulder, I kept working and it healed so slowly, I was in so much pain for so long and it had its repercussions and how do you play when your sub is walking a line at the edge of her limits day after day at work. It was a mistake to stay at this job so long ... in retrospect I should have left months ago but hell it is easy to have 20/20 vision looking back lol



ownedgirlie -> RE: when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 12:01:40 PM)

I am seeing in your last post here that perhaps the job is what is causing your anxiety, and not your submission.  So the question is, what will you do about it, and have you spoken to your Master of this and sought his counsel?



wyldsubmissive -> RE: when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 12:03:36 PM)

Sweetheart, I know almost exactly where you stand.

I moved from South Dakota to Ohio after getting into a physical altercation with my father. I moved in with the man I called my Master and acknowledged as my Dom. I was jobless for 2 months then ended up working in a call center (blech!). Thereafter I took a part time job with my Masters ex-wife (trippy no?). Somewhere into my fifth month with him I realised I no longer acknowledged him as my Dom. I refused punishment and did not submit with my whole heart. It finally came to the point where I sat down, told my Master I was breaking up with him and moving in with one of my co-workers. He was devestated, because he thought me his soulmate. I did not. I have very little social life, and next to no friends. But I do have a Mistress to whom my training collar belongs, and she is a wonderful source of strength to me. Not only that but I'm used to being the odd kid out (military brat).

I do hope that your orchard sabbatical helps you. Just because you question his decisions and fight with him doesn't mean you lose your submissive heart. Just your heart for him. It happens. We are human, and we grow and change.

If you ever want to talk send me a message, I'll be glad to chat with you!



nephandi -> RE: when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 12:05:06 PM)

i would say stress and a bad work situation and lonliness was a problem, not that you stopped to be submissive. But i agree that if you are unhappy, you should do somthing aboute it, and if what you are doing aboute it is moving back home, then that is somthing you need to do, it do not make you not a submissive.



Viridana -> RE: when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 12:26:04 PM)

Yes it is possible to change in so little time. For me it only took six months to lose grasp of what I thougth was "me".  I thought I was one of those 24/7 submissives and I had a fantasy about it for years, since I was a teenager. I met with a dominant and we started a d/s relationship. It was amazing to begin with. Finally living the fantasy. I felt I was connecting with a part of me that had been kept silenced for a long time. But Adam didn't spent a long time in Eden for I soon realized that the fantasy became a bore, and more so.. It became really uncomfortable emotionally. I realized that although I was ready to surrender for a short period of time (and got a real satisfying feeling for it), I really don't want to lose control in general.

You might ask so what? why was it such a turmoil? I had this notion in my head that I have to be one of those mythical creatures often described as "a true submissive".  That is surrender everything on a daily basis. I felt I was disappointing him and myself. That I wasn't being "a good enough person". Coming to the conclusion that maybe I wasn't one of those "true submissives" and maybe I'm only just a play bottom, caused intensive thinking, soul searching and being honest to myself (which is sometimes the hardest thing to do when you so much want to be a certain type of person but realize that you aren't).
And facing the ideal that I made up in my head that being a play bottom is something "worse" or "less" than being a 24/7 submissive.

This route for me only took about six months and I sometimes wish it could have taken more time for it has been an emotional rollercoster for myself.  I don't think I will ever go back to that level of submissiveness because I honestly don't think that was my path to begin with.  Being a play bottom in sessions and bedroom is the fulfillment I want and need and since I came to that conclusion, the rollercoaster has finally slowed down and some sense of peace has filled me.

I think it's a good thing that you are going through those thoughts. Because sooner or later you will reach a conclusion (you don't reach a descision if you don't think about it) and because of it you will get to know yourself, your needs, wants and fears. Give it time and that idea of yours of going to the orchard is a brilliant one. As I see it, if you don't know yourself enough you can't teach others who you are and what is best for you.



taintedgypsy -> RE: when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 12:33:46 PM)

yes and yes and yes ... but did I do it in a proper manner, I do not think so. I did it with the best of intentions but in reality I was argumentative, tired, lost and blamming Him and the world, scared of where I was and totally confused. I can not fault him in His effort to care for me and guide me but I still fought Him. I ended up with questionable mental health and went into survival mode, getting through one day at a time. I could not see the road ahead and would not listen to His directions when He could see what I could not. It was like going blind and panicing. Now I have no collar and am not sure what remains of Him and I, or if there is a future for us.

Time out is my only recourse, but yes the job was the major factor and I leave it on the 31st of March and I am counting the days ... I can not finish before then, my job is important and it would cause to much problem for the people I work with if I do not train up a replacement properly, and I need to ensure that I am finacially secure enough to take this time off ... but it is only annother 6 weeks lol I will survive.



kyraofMists -> RE: when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 12:57:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy
Have other submissives lost their way and found the right path again?
Are there other submissives that have lost trust but managed to rebuild that which was torn apart?
Are their others who have managed to pull themselves back and regain their place at His feet?
Is it possible that I am not submissive? That this whole journey has been for nothing?


There are many times that I have felt lost in the past two years and somehow I always seem to find my way back to the path he has me traveling.  There was also a point early last summer where trust was damaged and huge uncertainties grew in the wake of that.  It has taken all three of us to get past those moments and keep the relationship together.  I am still working on the issues that lead up to that time, but changing a lifetime of beliefs and thoughts are not easy. 

I have found that changing my focus to the relationship helps get me back on track.  I get so wrapped up in the helplessness that I feel that I stop focusing on being in the relationship.  The relationship is what comes first to us and when I keep that in mind, it is easier to get where he wants me to go.

Knight's kyra

*edited because I hit send before I finished writing...



taintedgypsy -> RE: when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 1:21:48 PM)

I am living in hope that all is not lost and that getting out of this job and taking some time out to reflect on all that has happened in the last 12mths will help put things back into prospective.

How much patience He has and whether He will wait arround for me to sort myself out is yet to be seen ... and the loss of my collar has cut deep.

Only time will tell but I would like to have a second chance and come back here to live closer to him and get a job that will give me time to focus on Us and repairing the damage, renewing our connection ... but again I have torn down the bridges and set fire to all that was between us and am unsure if there is enough left to rebuld from.

As of the past I enjoy your thoughts and appreciate you taking the time to reply.

warm smiles to you and your family may life treat you as well as you treat others



DominaSmartass -> RE: when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 7:48:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy

12 months ago I moved across the country and left all my friends, family and daughter to be closer to Him. I took on a job about 2 hours away from him, a stressful demanding job with long hours. I work so many hours that I have made no friends here, and they are all men that I work with and they go home to their wives and children and do not socialize with me. I spend most of my time alone in an old quarry site, or alone at home. I am exhausted both physically and mentally, and feel that life has been out of control for some time now. Exhaustion and loneliness during the week and then desperate neediness on the week end have turned our lives into a nightmare.


I really feel for you there. While I did not do quite the same thing for the same reasons, I find myself in a similar position...thousands of miles from everyone I care about and with little free time outside the office to take care fo myself. This in itself is a stressful situation, so you added on top of it a new M/s relationship and all that comes with that. Give yourself a break and don't be so hard on yourself. I know you must have thought that when you left home you were doing it for good - that he was THE ONE and you were making the right choice. The truth is that you never know what the future brings and you can't live your life only doing things that are sure bets. Sometimes even the surest bet doesn't pay off - at least not the way you might think at first.

quote:



So much change and growth that I no longer even recognize the woman in the mirror and I am not sure I like her either. There were a couple of unfortunate instances where punishment went horribly wrong and triggered some nasty things from my past and left a mass of distrust behind that neither of us has been able to fix.

I am stronger and surer of myself than I have ever been, yet I have lost so much. He has tried to direct, tried to pull me back on track, but for months I have fought Him at every turn. Why do I fight against what I want and need? Why do I question what has been carefully thought out and fashioned for my best interest? Why can I not put things behind me and trust in Him the way I did before all of this?


Been there, felt that too. One of the primary reasons I don't believe in corporal punishment in D/s relationships (other than the kind that's done for fun.) I'm assuming it's CP you're referring to but correct me if I'm wrong. It IS very hard to rebuild trust after someone betrays it. In my case, trust was never rebuilt and I left him. Your fighting him is probably due to some deeper survival instinct stuff you were feeling even if your head was telling you that you should follow. Sometimes the breech is too large and cannot be overcome. Did he ever admit he was wrong and appologize to you? Would that have made a difference?

If you are stronger and more sure of yourself than you have ever been then no matter what, this year has not been wasted. If it's over between you two then you should focus on yourself and moving on with your life. When I say focus on yourself, I mean it. Don't jump right back into the dating pool and try to find someone to fill that void. Cause there will be a void but you will only get yourself into more trouble if you let yourself be drawn into the next dom that comes along because you feel something's missing without one.

quote:



Is it possible to change so dramatically in just one year? Have I lost my submissive heart and if so what the hell am I now, but miserable, distraught and lost.



It's possible to change dramatically in much less than a year. And people do change, in d/s as much as any other part of life. I'm not saying that there is any hierarchy here but people do evolve and morph from subs to slaves, from slaves to subs, from slaves to doms even. Maybe there isn't any mysterious submissive heart that's been there all along and will be there forever. Maybe he made you feel submissive for that time and now something in you has changed and you may not feel that again or at least now.

quote:


Have other submissives lost their way and found the right path again?
Are there other submissives that have lost trust but managed to rebuild that which was torn apart?
Are their others who have managed to pull themselves back and regain their place at His feet?
Is it possible that I am not submissive? That this whole journey has been for nothing?


I started my journey in the d/s world as a sub, really a slave in mentality even if not in official title. It's who I thought I was at the time, though I had some doubts because other desires began to surface pretty quickly. I'm not sure where the turning point was but somewhere along the line, the man I was calling "sir" started to lose my respect. His behavior was no longer enough to earn my submission. I learned some things about myself and realized that I could and would do a better job of taking care of myself than he was doing taking care of me. I mean this in a physical and emotional sense, not like financial or anything since that wasn't part of it. The more distance I got from him and that relationship, and the more times I tried to put myself in the sub role once more, with other people, the more obvious it became that I could not consider myself a sub any longer. Yes, that was kind of hard and sad. I had only identified as a sub for about a year (my relationship was 8th months long) and it felt odd to let go of that identity, but it hurt much worse to try to keep hanging onto it. So yes, it's possible you are not a submissive but that ABSOLUTELY does NOT mean that this journey has been for nothing. How can you expect to go on a journey if you never leave the place you started? Maybe your destination was not with him after all; maybe your destination was not as a slave after all; but if you were still living the life you were a year ago you would still be that much further from actually finding out where you're supposed to be headed.

I hope my words have helped you (and maybe others reading this.) Don't expect that everything will feel right overnight. Most of all, keep reaching out for help from others cause everything you've been through, there are so many more who have as well.



taintedgypsy -> RE: when are you no longer a submissive? (2/11/2007 10:39:24 PM)

Yes, He is a deep thinking and essentually ethical man with no problem admitting when He is wrong. We have talked and talked about the issues between us, he has made many efforts to try and put to right what has gone wrong; the same as I have. I do not think that CP will ever work with me, just too much baggage from the past, and CP just hits trigger after trigger, I am not sure what He will decide to do about this should we make it through this "rough patch".

My heart tells me that we would have a better chance once the stress of this job is behind me, however my head is on a totally different track of self exploration looking for what is wrong within myself. Only time will reveal the future, I have no magic ball to look into.

In reality this post was good as it has given different outlooks that are not clouded by introspection. I believe that I will not find any diffinitive answers untill I have time to heal and recover from this year and put things into better perspective.

I have missed my family and friends terribly and look forward to a chance to spend quality time with them, phone calls are just not the same. All are very excited that I am going back for a couple of weeks and looks like I shall be very spoilt with home cooked meals and games of scrabble lol.

You are also right in that my comment of "all for nothing' was just a whimper of self pity and unworthy of being typed. If nothing else I walk away from this a better person, with a wealth of memories and experiences both good and bad. If I could go back and change things, yes there are things I would change, but I would still have come and taken the risk. I would not like to spend my life thinking "what if", at least this way if worse should happen, I return home knowing that we both gave it our best. No real regrets.

thanks to you all for your time and imput it has been greatly appreciated

warm smiles



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