Big Brother? (Full Version)

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cyberdude611 -> Big Brother? (2/7/2007 10:31:05 PM)

Its amazing how much this government is starting to look like 1984....

Disgusting

http://news.com.com/Senator+to+propose+surveillance+of+illegal+images/2100-1028_3-6156976.html?tag=nefd.lede




LadyEllen -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 1:10:53 AM)

I dont understand? I read the article and it seems to me to be aimed at intercepting/identifying child porn, which to me seems a decent enough motive.

Or are you more concerned about the snooping on what we all get up to online? This happens anyway, whatever anyone might like to believe. Theyre sweeping for Islamic radical stuff all the while, as well as in relation to things like illicit commercial activity, drugs and weapons trading, tax evasion and so on; I'd hope they already do sweeps for child porn too and prosecute as many as possible who are knowingly looking at that stuff.

E




SirKenin -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 1:38:24 AM)

All internet communication is monitored, and always has been.




steviemichael -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 2:37:43 AM)

ok  now what did i miss ?
what exactly happened in 1984.




LadyEllen -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 3:05:43 AM)

in 1984, I got 8 O levels; 2 Cs, 5 Bs and an A

otherwise, nothing of significance occurred.
E




calamitysandra -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 3:23:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

ok  now what did i miss ?
what exactly happened in 1984.



1984 is a novel by George Orwell.
http://www.amazon.com/1984-Signet-Classics-George-Orwell/dp/0451524934/sr=8-1/qid=1170933664/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-4245189-4742852?ie=UTF8&s=books

The OP was refering to the kind of government described in the book.




WyrdRich -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 5:03:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

ok  now what did i miss ?
what exactly happened in 1984.



1984 is a novel by George Orwell.
http://www.amazon.com/1984-Signet-Classics-George-Orwell/dp/0451524934/sr=8-1/qid=1170933664/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-4245189-4742852?ie=UTF8&s=books

The OP was refering to the kind of government described in the book.



      And as soon as you finish reading that one, pick up "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley, and then watch the Terry Gilliam film "Brazil."   You may never sleep well again.




calamitysandra -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 6:26:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

ok  now what did i miss ?
what exactly happened in 1984.



1984 is a novel by George Orwell.
http://www.amazon.com/1984-Signet-Classics-George-Orwell/dp/0451524934/sr=8-1/qid=1170933664/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-4245189-4742852?ie=UTF8&s=books

The OP was refering to the kind of government described in the book.



    And as soon as you finish reading that one, pick up "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley, and then watch the Terry Gilliam film "Brazil."   You may never sleep well again.


I would like to add "Fahrenheit 451" by Ray Bradbury to that list.
http://www.amazon.com/Fahrenheit-451-Ray-Bradbury/dp/0345342968/sr=1-1/qid=1170944663/ref=pd_bbs_1/105-4245189-4742852?ie=UTF8&s=books




steviemichael -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 6:38:04 AM)

i personally am  grateful  that their is many eyes watching over me and the many locations i visit
for one reason i have only one pair eyes.
Also why should anyone be afraid  unless of course you are doing something naughty !




calamitysandra -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 6:42:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

i personally am  grateful  that their is many eyes watching over me and the many locations i visit
for one reason i have only one pair eyes.
Also why should anyone be afraid  unless of course you are doing something naughty !



Maybe because your defenition and the defenition of the "eyes" on what is naughty might vary a good deal?




steviemichael -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 6:52:07 AM)

well to be humble and very modest i never look at anything you might consider "naughty" 




LadyEllen -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 7:02:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

well to be humble and very modest i never look at anything you might consider "naughty" 


It doesnt matter what we consider naughty. What matters is what those in authority think.

Your presence on CM as a UK citizen is already logged somewhere, you can bet; in readiness for the new legislation on "violent pornography" perhaps, since if you are here, there is a chance you might have pictures of bdsm activities somewhere.

E




pahunkboy -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 7:14:19 AM)

1984 is a great book.

orwell- was right on.   BTW- George Orwell is his pen name- his legal name is soemthing else...




drawntothedark -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 7:15:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

well to be humble and very modest i never look at anything you might consider "naughty" 


It doesnt matter what we consider naughty. What matters is what those in authority think.

Your presence on CM as a UK citizen is already logged somewhere, you can bet; in readiness for the new legislation on "violent pornography" perhaps, since if you are here, there is a chance you might have pictures of bdsm activities somewhere.

E


Yes and when the time comes that all of this is considered unsavory by the govermnet, just remember "We have always been at war with Eastasia" ...........or was it Eurasia? I can't remember anymore.




thompsonx -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 7:25:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

in 1984, I got 8 O levels; 2 Cs, 5 Bs and an A

otherwise, nothing of significance occurred.
E


LadyEllen:
I give up....what is an O level?
thompson




cyberdude611 -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 7:29:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I dont understand? I read the article and it seems to me to be aimed at intercepting/identifying child porn, which to me seems a decent enough motive.

Or are you more concerned about the snooping on what we all get up to online? This happens anyway, whatever anyone might like to believe. Theyre sweeping for Islamic radical stuff all the while, as well as in relation to things like illicit commercial activity, drugs and weapons trading, tax evasion and so on; I'd hope they already do sweeps for child porn too and prosecute as many as possible who are knowingly looking at that stuff.

E


The legislation would force ISPs to monitor internet traffic. And report to police any suspicion of what the computers might determine as images of child porn. First off this technology doesnt exist yet. It leaves it up to the ISPs to figure it out. And there is going to be enormous amounts of wrongful prosecution. How are you supposed to program a computer to tell the difference between pictures of a nude 17 year old and a nude 18 year old based only on the individual pixels of the image? Most humans cant tell the difference. Not only this, but even cartoons or anime that appears to be a child nude would have to be flagged and reported and would be illegal. So essentially, even thought there is no victim, you would still be prosecuted for child porn. Plus, this would also take away the state's rights to determine the age of consent. There is some states with the age of consent as low as age 14. Ultimately the legislation is impossible to impliment and it won't work as intended even if it were possible.

The law also does not take into effect accidental downloads or viruses that spread such images. A virus several years ago spread around the internet using Microsoft Outlook. It sent child porn to every person in the user's address book without any knowledge of the user.

Already the government is monitoring for terrorist activity. You email any specific keywords like bomb, assassination, or threats against the government, it is flagged and then analyzed. Over the past year, there has been much controversy over the Bush administration's ability to monitor phone conversations without even a judge's approval. And the reason he says he needs that power? To protect the country and the people from terrorist attacks.

In a fascist society, fear is used as an excuse to expand government powers. And the people don't mind. Because the people care more about the safety and security of their families and themselves than their freedoms. This is how the Nazi party took over Germany so easily, and so fast. And over the past decade, the government and media has done a terrific job of teaching the American people to fear Islam, terrorism, and child preditors. A poll was done last year and it stated that the majority of Americans would not mind if certain rights were taken away from muslims even if they were citizens.
That is how bad this is getting in this nation. If this continues, it wont be a free country much longer. Everything that is happening in this government flies completely in the face of what America's founding fathers preached. And the only excuse conservatives give? "It's a new world."

This also has to do with politics. The bill's sponsor is John McCain. He ran for president in 2000 and made a critical mistake of pushing away the religious right-wing conservatives. He is running for president next year, and this is his way of kissing and making up.

"Those who would give up essential liberty for a little temporal safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin




thompsonx -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 7:36:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

i personally am  grateful  that their is many eyes watching over me and the many locations i visit
for one reason i have only one pair eyes.
Also why should anyone be afraid  unless of course you are doing something naughty !



steviemichael:
Over here we call it the constitution, that and some dead "redcoats" are what seperate  the U.S. from the U.K.
I would suggest that you take your one pair of eyes and read the article in question.  I would call your attention especially to the fourth from the last paragraph.
thompson




LadyEllen -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 7:43:42 AM)

So, what youre saying then, is that due to the imprecision of technology and the poor drafting of the bill, it could conceivably result in many wrongful arrests? Surely your senate exists like our lords, to review and amend such bills, or else reject them if unworkable?

If only you had habeas corpus in the US.....

In the end though, this has to come down to common sense exercised in the discretion of law enforcers. Are they seriously proposing to arrest people who have a family website that has holiday photos of their children on it? I think such a case, if brought, would be laughed out of court and be a waste of time for any prosecutor to pursue. Albeit that the publicity up to dismissal would of course be the ruin of those concerned.

E




LadyEllen -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 7:46:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

in 1984, I got 8 O levels; 2 Cs, 5 Bs and an A

otherwise, nothing of significance occurred.
E


LadyEllen:
I give up....what is an O level?
thompson


O Levels (O for Ordinary, now known as GCSEs) are the examinations one takes on leaving school at age 16. At 18, if one continues into college, one takes A levels (Advanced) and from there one usually proceeds to university degree level or some professional qualification.

E




cyberdude611 -> RE: Big Brother? (2/8/2007 7:59:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

So, what youre saying then, is that due to the imprecision of technology and the poor drafting of the bill, it could conceivably result in many wrongful arrests? Surely your senate exists like our lords, to review and amend such bills, or else reject them if unworkable?

If only you had habeas corpus in the US.....

In the end though, this has to come down to common sense exercised in the discretion of law enforcers. Are they seriously proposing to arrest people who have a family website that has holiday photos of their children on it? I think such a case, if brought, would be laughed out of court and be a waste of time for any prosecutor to pursue. Albeit that the publicity up to dismissal would of course be the ruin of those concerned.

E


Dont laugh too hard. The bill would also make it "child porn" if the pictures of the child could be considered "provocative" even if non-nude. And who determines what is provocative? The government of course.

And yes it can pass the way it is. Anything in this country will pass if it is "in the name of protecting the children." Would you go into the next election if your opponent claims you voted against a anti-child porn bill? People are truely dumb enough to fall for that kind of rhetoric.




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