quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I was in the Navy back then and knew some sailors on the Vincennes. I had also been in the Persian Gulf on a ship doing much the same things as the Vincennes.

We were trying to provoke the Iranians and the Iranians were trying to provoke us. The Iranians were flying F-14's with civilian transponders and civilian jets with F-14 transponders. This made every Iranian aircraft appoaching your ship a very nervous encounter.

Now understand that the OS whose screen the jet appeared on had only a few seconds to identify the jet from symbols and numbers provided by the radar/computer. Any number of rather simple mistakes could have convinced the OS that rather than a jetliner at altitude what he had was a F-14 on an attack run. The OOD then took a few seconds to examine the blip for himself, probably with the OS telling him how to interpret it. Firing the missile was a terrible tragedy but it was almost inevitable with what both countries were doing in the Gulf at the time.

If the rules of engagement had required visual observation or another decision makers involvement then we could easily be talking about the Iranians attacking a US cruiser in international waters rather than what actually happened.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Understood. Never been there, but I understand. Somewhat like people remembering sexual molestaton 30 years later. Only problem is these people have guns.

If I may say something to everyone. You are here, this is a kinky adult website, but we are in a pretty much non kinky area right now. We discuss political issues etc., in here and as such I think the following needs to be said.

If you want to understand everything that is going on in the world, go kill your Mom and bring me her scalp. Yes this is harsh and unreasonable, also probably not going to happen. I don't want your Mom dead, why would I ? The point is that YOU are able to do it.

I don't mean for this to really happen. But understand that I could do it. I have no moral pangs relating to anyhting, I could do anything. I could kill my best friend, Mom, ANYONE. But I won't.

Thet is the key to civilisation. As Cptn Kirk said to a whacked out race they found in space "I will not kill today".

And looking at what is going on, it seems logical that the most prolific killers say it first, and they are us. Or at least our government, who thinks they decide who is to live and die, and who is allowed to defend themselves and who is not. Across the globe.

Nowadays, I would wipe my ass with the Bibile, as well as the Constitution. Those words mean nothing unless people believe and fight for those virtues..

It is OK though, if the same kind of people run this country after 2008, we will go down. We will find out what it is to live in a third world country. Oh yes, I DO have fact and figures on this. The breadbasket of the West now imports more food than it exports. We are so totally screwed you don't even want to know. I don't know exactly when it will happen, but someday our creditors will no longer take promissory note, and on that day things will change.

People's checks will be no good, and tht means everything stops, cable, phone, taxes, gasoline, gas (natural gas), beer. The only things you'll be able to get will be illegal, like pot and drugs. If you have the cash or something else the guy wants. As the cash evaporates you start to barter.

I can see it coming, and I can feel it. And I also think it is natural for us to go through this, and I think if I find it impossible to live I will die, and I am fine with that.

I could care less about those 100 people or those 1,000 people, where the hell are our million people who are scattered all over the globe enforcing our government's agenda in place they have no business being ?

These Men should be home, defending their Woman, their hearth and their home. And our borders, don't even think about that right now. That subject can swamp everything.

Let me put it this way, I want so bad for someone to kick the US's ass that I would die, that is if someone got a nuke, a really big one in here, if it killed me, I would not be pissed off. This government HAS TO GO, AT ALL COST.

Do you understand what AT ALL COST means ? It means to the death if necessary.

This government must go at all cost. Period. We are going down the tubes anyway with them raping us and taking everything anyway.

Tell you what, I will start a new post, outlining what is just happening with your scrap metal right now. It will make you load your gun. What they are doing to this country is not only treason, it is permanently disabling us. This is a crime against humanity which the Hague has not even defined yet.

What they have done, is to ship all the jobs out, then alot of the better machinery and now the natural resources, and now the friggin scrap metal !

I'll tell you why this is significant. Look at everything in your house, the TV, computer, stereo, cellphone, what do you see ? Plastic. Plastic is made from petroleum.

Look at an ICBM, or a patriot or even a scud missile, what do you see ? Metal.

It gets worse, waaay worse, but I will save thqat for another day, and actually another thread. I think I hijacked this one enough, sorry. But when you have opinions as strong as mine, sometimes the chips must fall.

Don't worry about Iran, they are not becoming a problem to say the least. What I figure is that if we go into Iran either China or Russia is going to put their fist up our ass, probably Russia because if they are allies, which I believe they are, strategically it is better to do it that way.

So Russia supplies Iran, keeps the US bogged down, nukes Israeal and says to Iraq "Now that is the fukin way to do it". China divests itself of dollars and persues the euro. Sitting quietly China counts her gains, knowing that attacking these entities woul drain resouces. Quiet and happy China rests, as the other entities expend resources and their combatants get tired.

Let me tell you all, I am Jeff Urban in Cleveland Ohio. I am a 46 year old Man with guns. I did better than 50% on the mensa pretest, and rank around 160 in IQ. And I now have this opinion.

Within ten years, they will start killing you for wrong thoughts.

Nobody will not be on medication.

Sea salt will probably be illegal.

Up to 90% of the people will be on probation or some sort of supervision by the government for victimless crimes.

Those who refuse that supervision will be summarily hunted down and killed, being called anything from a cop killer to a baby raper, even though it is not true, people will believe it and spit on the guy's grave.

It might really come out someday when they make it illegal to get drugs out of country. It may come down to "Well you went and got the drugs that saved your life in Canada for $10, but they cost $80 here. You owe us $70.

If you think I am kidding, take another look around.

If you decide to kill the messenger, have at it, and proscribe our selves into a form of bondage you never wanted.

Now that I think of it, that has already happened.

T

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
This is a gross rationalisation, particularly the last paragraph which is just a justification for shooting a civilian aircraft down. There was not an act of war between Iran and the USA. Iran was in its own backyard and the US was half way around the globe. If anyone was being provocative it was the USA. The fact that the USA can't bring itself to apologize and its subsequent treatment of the men involved speak volumes.

The US really ought to get over the fact they were kicked out of Iran. Many imperial countries have been kicked out of their former client states and managed to rebuild a functional relationship. The US's relationship with Cuba just shows the US has real problems with coming to terms with being snubbed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I was in the Navy back then and knew some sailors on the Vincennes. I had also been in the Persian Gulf on a ship doing much the same things as the Vincennes.

We were trying to provoke the Iranians and the Iranians were trying to provoke us. The Iranians were flying F-14's with civilian transponders and civilian jets with F-14 transponders. This made every Iranian aircraft appoaching your ship a very nervous encounter.

Now understand that the OS whose screen the jet appeared on had only a few seconds to identify the jet from symbols and numbers provided by the radar/computer. Any number of rather simple mistakes could have convinced the OS that rather than a jetliner at altitude what he had was a F-14 on an attack run. The OOD then took a few seconds to examine the blip for himself, probably with the OS telling him how to interpret it. Firing the missile was a terrible tragedy but it was almost inevitable with what both countries were doing in the Gulf at the time.

If the rules of engagement had required visual observation or another decision makers involvement then we could easily be talking about the Iranians attacking a US cruiser in international waters rather than what actually happened.

This is a gross rationalisation, particularly the last paragraph which is just a justification for shooting a civilian aircraft down. There was not an act of war between Iran and the USA. Iran was in its own backyard and the US was half way around the globe. If anyone was being provocative it was the USA. The fact that the USA can't bring itself to apologize and its subsequent treatment of the men involved speak volumes.

The US really ought to get over the fact they were kicked out of Iran. Many imperial countries have been kicked out of their former client states and managed to rebuild a functional relationship. The US's relationship with Cuba just shows the US has real problems with coming to terms with being snubbed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Where were these terrible mines placed that put Americans at risk, in US waters ? In Lake Erie ? No. Halfway around the world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

And looking at what is going on, it seems logical that the most prolific killers say it first, and they are us. Or at least our government, who thinks they decide who is to live and die, and who is allowed to defend themselves and who is not. Across the globe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I could care less about those 100 people or those 1,000 people, where the hell are our million people who are scattered all over the globe enforcing our government's agenda in place they have no business being ?

...

Let me put it this way, I want so bad for someone to kick the US's ass that I would die, that is if someone got a nuke, a really big one in here, if it killed me, I would not be pissed off. This government HAS TO GO, AT ALL COST.

Do you understand what AT ALL COST means ? It means to the death if necessary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

T,

Lots of interesting stuff, but this is what really caught my attention:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

And looking at what is going on, it seems logical that the most prolific killers say it first, and they are us. Or at least our government, who thinks they decide who is to live and die, and who is allowed to defend themselves and who is not. Across the globe.

What I read is a condemnation of the US, because the government is willing to backup it's foreign policy with deadly force, if necessary.

What I read is that you don't think the government has the right to make decisions that may, or do lead to the death of people.  They simply don't have the right.

Yet, in your own words ....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I could care less about those 100 people or those 1,000 people, where the hell are our million people who are scattered all over the globe enforcing our government's agenda in place they have no business being ?

...

Let me put it this way, I want so bad for someone to kick the US's ass that I would die, that is if someone got a nuke, a really big one in here, if it killed me, I would not be pissed off. This government HAS TO GO, AT ALL COST.

Do you understand what AT ALL COST means ? It means to the death if necessary.

You are assuming the exact same right to make the decision about who lives and dies, for the exact same reasons.

The only difference is that you are advocating the murder and death of millions of US citizens.

How does that make you any better than the very government that you are condemning?

Does this, in your eyes, make you better or worse than the US government?

FirmKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You'll have to 'splain it to me, thompson, because I don't see how your comments address what I said at all.

FirmKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

You misspelled "America". Firefox 2 would have caught that.

This *IS* the off topic forum?