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RE: Second-Class Citizens - 1/30/2007 10:25:13 PM

ToServeIsToLive

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

What number do you like? Me? I like ZERO dead Iraqi Civilians.

I know, I know... I'm an old hippie. I object to the NEXT war, too.

I agree, but this exchange stemmed from a point of putting the bushes in a list of some of the largest killers in history. I'd like to see us wait till the next WW breaks out (really we waited as long as we could for those) and then step in, but I guess dependance on foreign resources keeps us from doing that.

(in reply to farglebargle)

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RE: Second-Class Citizens - 1/30/2007 10:43:49 PM

ToServeIsToLive

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToServeIsToLive

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Iraq Body Count, If I recall correctly, only uses published reports of deaths? That would underreport actuals. They want to quibble about the accuracy of their numbers? I'd like to remind us that Baghdad is still a war zone, and it's so out of control, they need to send in more troops to go door to door and clean out "Undesirables".

They use UN reports which sum iraqi morgue and ministry of health information. Obviously there's going to be some percentage of undiscovered deaths, but to use a small scale poll and then believe that it's 1000% is a bit out there.

But seriously folks. Where is it written that you must take your dead brother to a morgue and get a certificate? What? Like his life insurance is going to pay out, living in Iraq? I think, given the tradition of burial within 24 hours, it's perfectly reasonable to expect that people don't bother filling out the paperwork. THEY know their son is dead. Who the fuck cares what MinHealth accumulates statistics for or is going to take the risk of getting shot dead going downtown to file some camelshit paperwork?

Well, if you follow the lancet reports logic then you're also lead to believe that 800,000 wounded Iraqi of which are most are noncombatant didn't seek any medical attention for their injuries. Hospitals have a huge interest in accurately reporting the numbers of violent injuries they've treated so they can get proper funding from the ministry of health. I think believing they wouldn't bother getting a death certificate is an underestimation of Iraq as a country. They're a mostly urbanized society. Also, it's still staggering that 9 out of 10 wouldn't receive death certificates. No matter how you cut it 1000% inaccuracy is a sign that ones methods need to be retooled.

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RE: Second-Class Citizens - 1/31/2007 12:47:43 AM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

explain bisexuals.

Greedy, needy, attention whores.

LMAO!! You're a tough lady who doesn't pull any punches....I'm gonna put you on the list with Julia and Lil' Caitlyn ; }

- R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

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RE: Second-Class Citizens - 1/31/2007 1:16:58 AM

violet7

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not that i am at all a fan of bush or this war, but i feel the need to point out that there is a slight difference between deciding to just gas 6 million jews, or starve your entire country, and entering into a war that approximately half your country supported. i am not trying to belittle the lives lost in this conflict...just give a little perspective.

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RE: Second-Class Citizens - 1/31/2007 5:48:08 AM

farglebargle

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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: violet7

not that i am at all a fan of bush or this war, but i feel the need to point out that there is a slight difference between deciding to just gas 6 million jews, or starve your entire country, and entering into a war that approximately half your country supported. i am not trying to belittle the lives lost in this conflict...just give a little perspective.

To the victim marched into the gas chamber, or the victim shot dead in their village because they're the wrong type of Iraqi does it matter?

Is the person responsible for 6 million deaths MORE GUILTY or MORE EVIL than the one responsible for one?

Nope.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Second-Class Citizens - 1/31/2007 5:51:36 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

Also, it's still staggering that 9 out of 10 wouldn't receive death certificates. No matter how you cut it 1000% inaccuracy is a sign that ones methods need to be retooled.

I can understand why someone from a society where you cannot visit the nurse without a pass, or the bathroom without a pass, why they would believe that people NEEDED to report to central authority.

Wouldn't a country in the midst of a civil/sectarian war get over that childish notion?

And my understanding is that the hospitals are having enough problems with just finding enough diesel to run the gennies and keep the lights on.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to ToServeIsToLive)

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RE: Second-Class Citizens - 1/31/2007 6:17:29 AM

EnemyCombatant

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In all the worlds armed forces the enlisted personnel loose most if not all of the civil rights and general freedoms afforded to the civil population. The are frequently bullied and coersed into following entirely allien and often pointless ways of subservience in the guise of military discipline and comradeship. 90% of military offences would not be offenses in civil society, yet they are punished severely if transgressed. Officers also experience certain restrictions but there life at least is more congenial. Why is it that those who volunteer to put their lives on the line get treated so badly and are nearly always ignored and neglected if they become disabled as a result of their service?

So much is expected and even demanded of them. Long hours of work in often audious climatical conditions for very little pay. Exposure to frequent danger that threatens their lives every second when exposed to it. So little is really give in return. False words of thanks from politicians is not enough.

Show business celebrities with often dubious talents get far more praise and earn more in a single day than the highest paid enlisted man can earn in a year. Yet it is often the enlisted man who possesses the real talents and they are the one's to show true courage in adversity. People have their priorities wrong in society.

Any cutbacks in veterans benefits is scandalous, especially in the rich nations of the world who contribute so little to veterans yet waste so much money on often pointless research projects designed to go nowhere. There is simply no excuse it is just that those in power and authority just dont give a damn. You suffer and they profit financially quite often from your suffering. Especially the arms manufacturers and petroleum corporations.

< Message edited by EnemyCombatant -- 1/31/2007 6:31:56 AM >

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RE: Second-Class Citizens - 1/31/2007 7:19:03 AM

EnemyCombatant

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I do hope that the present incumbant of the governorship of California does not become the U.S. President otherwise he will be starring in a real terminator movie, his own, and the start of the real world war 3.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

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