Illustion of Power (Full Version)

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prettichinadoll -> Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 5:22:48 PM)

'How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?'

Winston thought. 'By making him suffer,' he said.

'Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.

 



George Orwell, 1984—Part III, Chapter3


 

In this life style, or should we say life in general, we live in many illusions. While Vanilla people live in the illusion of morality, social norm, or this so called “American dream”, we live in the illusion of “power”, of “responsibility”, of “trust”. But in this little article, I want to talk about the illusion of power.


 

The quote you read at the beginning is from George Orwell’s classic 1984. I have to say that some part of this book is rather dry, but Part III is simply brilliant. The conversations between poor Winston and cruel yet charming O'Brien are the most remarkable of the entire book. But I found the above quote particularly…what should be the right word? “interesting”? No, it’s more than interesting, it’s almost inspiring. It speaks out the true essence of power of one person over others.


 

You assert your power over others through making them suffer. Not through fun, not through making them happy, or making them better…but through their unwillingness to obey. Please note, the idea is not simply “obey” but the “unwillingness” of obey.

I’ve been in this lifestyle for roughly a year, and I’ve never stop thinking all the concepts we’re speaking of every day. Power exchange, dominate and submission, Control, responsibility…I’m sure many of you have said or heard more than once something like “I will tear you apart, break you down, and put you together as I please.” Yes, of course, that’s the true, ultimate power one could ever have over another person. How could you be sure you “own” a certain someone completely? Tear him apart, exam every little componate, CPU, hard drive, video card, sound card...keep those you want, throw away those you don't, and put something new there...and there you have it, your own brand new PC! What? we're not talking about PC, but a live breathing human being? ....


 

Many said it without a faintest idea what it means, and many (like me) listen to you with all the pinky rosy romantic ideas.


 

When you think about this, I mean, really sit down, in the middle of the night, when you don’t need to face any one but yourself, you probably will realize behind all the loving, caring…or whatever mask you would like to put on this power, the power itself, the absolute power in the DS fantasy land, the power over another person, is quite horrible. What’s that familiar saying? “Absolute power creates absolute corruption”. Just think about what O’Brien achieved in Winston by the end of 1984, he successfully torn his mind to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of his own choosing. Winston became what the government wants, a perfect lawful, “big brother” loving citizen. And he became, against his will, what he was afraid and disgusted the most. That’s the ultimate power we are talking about!


 

But, I know what you've been thinking about--Consent!


 

Yes, we should never forget this little word that makes every thing OK. After all, we're not talking about 1984 here, but "modern consensual BDSM". But the paradox in “consent” is how do you know you’re actually controlling another person, or simply doing him a big favor? High protocol, TPE…we have a lot of fancy names for power. But the truth be told, no one is controlling anyone, no one has power over other people. We’re playing in a big fantasy world of power exchange.


 

Not long ago, I read a post saying “submission is not a gift”. Although the words in that post are somewhat harsh, the idea actually makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of more sense than “I’ll tear you apart and build you up again according to my will”. The idea of that post is simply submission is not a gift you freely give to your dom. It something a sub give away in return of what she needs. It's not a gift but a currency so to speak.


 

There’s no such thing as “ultimate power over other people” in consensual BDSM. It’s an illusion we create. Power exchange, more than often, when we read this phrase, we read “power” but ignore “exchange”. It’s an exchange. I give something you need, in exchange for something I need.


 

Please understand, I never say the illusion of power is bad or wrong or anything. It’s just a fact. After all, we don’t need "slavery" in its historical sense. As a submissive, I have a desire to be controlled. It’s a need of mine. A dom controlling me is in a way doing me a huge favor of fulfilling that need. As a dom, you have a desire to control people, it’s a need of you, and I’m doing you a big favor by letting you control me. I’m fulfilling my needs in fulfilling yours. A wonderful positive circle. Everyone is happy.


 

I’m not sure if I make my point quite clear. As a Chinese, it’s a bad habit of mine to circling around the point and often lost my American readers half way. But before I end this, I would like to bring your attention to a little story I heard from a friend of a friend…so to speak.

Once upon a time, there’s a Mistress and her slave. The Mistress wanted to bring another slave into this house and started a poly family. After discussing with her slave, both of them decided to give a try. But, eventually the poly family failed because the slave can not deal with poly situation.


 

I’m sure if she wanted, she could make it happen. She could “tear her monogamous slave apart, and build him into poly” according to this wonderful BDSM myth of power. Should this Mistress force her slave to do the poly nonetheless? Would it make her more “dominate” or “mistress-like” if she just did it anyway? Does stopping the poly family “according to her slave’s will” make her a service dom? Who is in control here?


 

I don’t think she can do it. She doesn’t have “control” of her slave. She loves him way too much to control him. She loves him way too much to assert power over him through his suffering. All she wanted, like anyone in love, is for him to be happy, for him to be more than he could ever be by himself. In a way, the slave is controlling the Mistress, the same way the Mistress is controlling the slave. Power, or control, in this relationship (and in most of the consensual BDSM relationship) is an illusion. Because apparently, the “suffering” the slave endure is almost always what he needs, namely during play.

Were they going through rough times? Did they stick to each other? of course they did. They both endured a lot of heart breaks for their relationship to work. But rather saying it’s because of control or power, it’s because of love. Isn’t that true for most relationships, BDSM or vanilla?


 

The essence of a BDSM relationship is, like any other relationship, not power, but love. Just my humble opinion…but, doms, when you write in your profile something like “I’ll tear you apart and build you back up according to my will”, or you get into this lifestyle looking for this “ultimate power over another human being”, go read 1984, and you’ll know, that kind of power in reality is an illusion. We can play with it all we like, but don’t believe, and certainly don’t live it.


 

And my fellow subbies, you’re your own person. No one can “tear you apart, and build you up anew”, unless you don’t have this thing called “self”…in that case, you’re already apart, and I doubt anyone could put you together. Play games all you like (don’t we love playing…), but when it comes to everyday life reality, know what you’re looking for, know what it is behind all those fancy words. be smart and be safe.

 




aSlavesLife -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 6:04:17 PM)

I disagree with this, though this stems from a different viewpoint. I distinguish between consent and consensual non consent. My slaves last act of consent was to become my property, dispelling any such illusions thereafter. Then again, she is a slave, not a submissive.

"...and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserved you by a dread of punishment which never fails." _Machiavelli

"I am your servant. I shall not be free. You will protect me; you will keep me safe; you will guard me. You will keep me sound; you will protect me from every demon."_ ancient Egyptian woman's slave contract.




dawntreader -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 6:13:17 PM)

"submission is not a gift you freely give to your dom. It something a sub give away in return of what she needs. It's not a gift but a currency so to speak."
 
i like this... 





angelic -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 6:15:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

I disagree with this, though this stems from a different viewpoint. I distinguish between consent and consensual non consent. My slaves last act of consent was to become my property, dispelling any such illusions thereafter. Then again, she is a slave, not a submissive.



Even as a slave, she had the right to do as she choose, she choose to become your slave.  It was her decision and her's alone.  The "power" was hers.  And regardless of how you color it, she has the right to leave at any time, whether she does or not, it is again her choice and her's alone.

oh, yes.  This is my opinion, only.




aSlavesLife -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 6:19:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

I disagree with this, though this stems from a different viewpoint. I distinguish between consent and consensual non consent. My slaves last act of consent was to become my property, dispelling any such illusions thereafter. Then again, she is a slave, not a submissive.



Even as a slave, she had the right to do as she choose, she choose to become your slave.  It was her decision and her's alone.  The "power" was hers.  And regardless of how you color it, she has the right to leave at any time, whether she does or not, it is again her choice and her's alone.

oh, yes.  This is my opinion, only.


As for the first part, she had the right to give her consent to be a slave. Of course until she gave her consent she was not a slave. It was her right to consent to non consent. The right to leave does not equal the ability to leave though, no matter how you color it. Perhaps some day she will develop teeth capable of chewing through metal, but until that time....




meatcleaver -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 6:28:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

I disagree with this, though this stems from a different viewpoint. I distinguish between consent and consensual non consent. My slaves last act of consent was to become my property, dispelling any such illusions thereafter. Then again, she is a slave, not a submissive.



Even as a slave, she had the right to do as she choose, she choose to become your slave.  It was her decision and her's alone.  The "power" was hers.  And regardless of how you color it, she has the right to leave at any time, whether she does or not, it is again her choice and her's alone.

oh, yes.  This is my opinion, only.


As for the first part, she had the right to give her consent to be a slave. Of course until she gave her consent she was not a slave. It was her right to consent to non consent. The right to leave does not equal the ability to leave though, no matter how you color it. Perhaps some day she will develop teeth capable of chewing through metal, but until that time....


All this illustrates that D/s and M/s is an illusion which it is. We are dealing in fantasy and not reality which is why I just can't take it all seriously and stick to the reality of tops and bottoms.




darksdesire -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 6:35:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

I disagree with this, though this stems from a different viewpoint. I distinguish between consent and consensual non consent. My slaves last act of consent was to become my property, dispelling any such illusions thereafter. Then again, she is a slave, not a submissive.



Even as a slave, she had the right to do as she choose, she choose to become your slave.  It was her decision and her's alone.  The "power" was hers.  And regardless of how you color it, she has the right to leave at any time, whether she does or not, it is again her choice and her's alone.

oh, yes.  This is my opinion, only.


As for the first part, she had the right to give her consent to be a slave. Of course until she gave her consent she was not a slave. It was her right to consent to non consent. The right to leave does not equal the ability to leave though, no matter how you color it. Perhaps some day she will develop teeth capable of chewing through metal, but until that time....


ahhh.  But then you are talking about something that is illegal.  If she asks to be released, you would refuse, and would hold her by the physical chains?




angelic -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 6:37:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

As for the first part, she had the right to give her consent to be a slave. Of course until she gave her consent she was not a slave. It was her right to consent to non consent. The right to leave does not equal the ability to leave though, no matter how you color it. Perhaps some day she will develop teeth capable of chewing through metal, but until that time....


So now she is no longer there by choice and you feel this need to keep her in metal just to be sure she will not leave.  Interesting. 




aSlavesLife -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 7:02:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

As for the first part, she had the right to give her consent to be a slave. Of course until she gave her consent she was not a slave. It was her right to consent to non consent. The right to leave does not equal the ability to leave though, no matter how you color it. Perhaps some day she will develop teeth capable of chewing through metal, but until that time....


So now she is no longer there by choice and you feel this need to keep her in metal just to be sure she will not leave.  Interesting. 


Who said that it was not by choice? Was it not her choice to enter into this type of slavery? And must you assume that the chains are purely physical? There are numerous ways to restrain a person mentally. Read up on the story of Colleen Stan to see methods that were used in her non consensual captivity to better understand this. I am not condoning that story, but rather pointing out that control vastly transcends the physical. What is truly interesting is that some people are so intimidated by those of us that practice something approaching actual slavery that they seek to either deny its existence or point fingers while yelling how illegal it all is. Like the bruises on a sub's ass aren't illegal. So legality isn't an issue if it concerns you, but it is if it exceeds what you want in your relationship? Where did I leave my dictionary? I know that there is a word for this somewhere in there!

And as for " breaking them down to build them up again ".... Take a glance at the practices of military boot camp in the past. They relied on fear, intimidation, sleep deprivation, toiling exercise, and shouted degrading insults to accomplish exactly this result. Only in America's more recent military history has this process been changed. It is a fully functional method of accomplishing exactly what the OP claims cannot happen.




SimplyMichael -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 7:07:58 PM)

Power is not an illusion, rights are an illusion.  However, what many think is power isn't and can't see the power that is.

A cult leader does not have the power of law but of personality.  For those of you who say power is an illusion, explain that power away.

If I meet a woman who is horribly shy but who wants to serve me and I ask her to do something that makes her head swim with anxiety, what is that?

What is that feeling we get when we hear a great man speak great words?

Sorry, power is very very real although I would agree we rarely truly see it.




KnightofMists -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 7:13:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: prettichinadoll

It speaks out the true essence of power of one person over others.


Actually it only speak to the essence of Coercive Power.  A style of power that dictators have been relying since the beginning of civilizations.  Because it is a style of power that is to enforce the will of one on to the will of another, no behavior demonstrating obedience can be trusted.  Obedience in this style of power is often motivated for self-preservation.. and the abiding of time.  As history shows us time and time again, seldom do dictatorships last the life of a dictator.  Coercive Power in the end is self-defeating to itself.  Commonly, with the use of this style of power, it will sow seeds of decent and those subjugated will raise upon against such power.  Coercive Power must be continuely applied to maintain... but yet such power style is like trying to trap air with the hand. 

Coercive power indeed as an illusion of power and often this illusion is dispelled in rather dramatic fashion, however, other power styles are not so full of illusions.  I have always felt the most powerful style is those that gain the consentual freewill of those that choose to another's free will.   Other styles tend understand that to gain such consent it must be earned... whatever earns such consent of power must be maintained if one expects to hold on to power.  This is not an illusion... it's the reality of power.  Coersive power chooses to dispel with reality and embraces the illusion that it can enforce it's will onto another.  Often this illusion can be kept for decades... but in time the power will slip and the illusion will be dispelled.






thetammyjo -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 7:14:22 PM)

(warning: this may be another of my rambling posts)

Personally I don't like the words "power exchange" -- I believe that in a good Ds relationship both people are empowered and their power grows. What they create and maintain is an authority dynamic.

For me, love can be great, and friendship is a must for a good Ds relationship but really I need that authority dynamic.

The "power" in Orwell is, in my opinion, about fear and insecurity. The fear of not having power and that type of power is tenuous at best. It is born from insecurity in one's own identity and position in the world, one must harm others because one only has a sense of self when harming others -- sad. This "power" can be taken from you by the next person who is stronger or wealthier or armed with a bigger gun at any time. The person with this "power" lives their life in insecurity because they fear losing it or of being placed in the opposite position and thus losing their identity.

The recognization of authority when it is based on consent though is not so fragile and I think it is far more positive in it's outcomes. I do not live my life in fear because I do not fear losing my authority or of being in the opposite position because I see value and benefit in both. My authority is something born out of my innate personality and our mutual desires not out of fear or insecurities. My authoriy is a sign of my security in myself as myself regardless of whether or not I have a person who recognizes it; I recognize it in myself and that attracts people to me.

Hope that made some sense.




bandit25 -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 7:20:06 PM)

You are, of course, being facetious.  The right is there...she may not want to exercise that right.  To you as well as to her...a right that isn't exercised may just as well not exist.  That's your reality.




stormsfate -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 7:26:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Power is not an illusion, rights are an illusion.  However, what many think is power isn't and can't see the power that is.

A cult leader does not have the power of law but of personality.  For those of you who say power is an illusion, explain that power away.


Yes!  Exactly!  The idea of your statement can be very frightening to some people, and I believe at times, some choose not to acknowledge the existence of things they fear.

fate





darksdesire -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 7:53:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

(warning: this may be another of my rambling posts)

Personally I don't like the words "power exchange" -- I believe that in a good Ds relationship both people are empowered and their power grows. What they create and maintain is an authority dynamic.


The reason I like the words "power exchange" is because it does imply that both people are empowered, and the submissive is making a choice, moment by moment, to surrender that power to the dominant.  




HatesParisHilton -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 7:58:15 PM)

"It's not a gift but a currency so to speak."

well fine, agreed, but considering you brought up your Chinese POV, do you recognize that currency is a 2 way street?

would you endorse your own presented protocol (since Orwell's "1984" is all about protocol and it's affect from the mass society down to the individual) if the GENDER POV of your post was REVERSED?

Meaning, in a "currency" scenario as you put it yourself, there is an agreement, just like I agree to pay so much for a dvd player manufactured in China.

The dome agrees to be what the sub wants in the way she wants, that is his "dom currency".  in return, she agrees to provide the "product" he's willing to pay for in EQUAL VALUE to that amount of currency.

If you are going to stand by your statements and POV as fairly as "It's not a gift but a currency so to speak" demands, then you must therefore accept that this is a 2 way street, both needs of both parties being met, NOT just the sub's, otherwise your treatise above falls completely apart at the seams like fishnets with a rip at the thigh during a vibrant dance party.  You have to provide the same warranties ala "currency" or you have to be willing to have the consumer return the goods no questions asked.

Meaning your POV applies, but only if the dom has the right under barter/currency/transaction to say "I thought I was buying (x), you gave me (y), I never ever even alluded to maybe wanting (y), therefore I now ask nothing of you but choose to leave with no further ph. cals, contact, e-mails, any explanation, any comfort, etc."

If you as a sub can say in the context of this thread that any Dom/Top operating under your paradigm/schematic has the right to do that if HIS needs are not met, then I completely agree with you.  IF you say that and say so directly in this thread without playing with semsantics or contexts.

If not, there is a fist sized hole in the bottom of the wineskin of your treatise bearing in mind your focus on "currency", and you basically propose what in sales/retail is defined as a "bait and switch".

Whcih oddly is often illegal in the realm of commerce but never so in relationships.




darksdesire -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 8:05:42 PM)

But....

He does have the right to ask her to leave if his needs aren't being met.   Just as she has the right to leave if her needs aren't being met.  That's why D/s relationships end...it happens all the time. 




HatesParisHilton -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 8:11:25 PM)

yes, I know that, you know that, but I'm not only saying "ask her to leave" or her leaving, I'm saying LEAVING WITHOUT A WORD, OR E-MAIL.

look at how many threads here and on b.com (in the good days before they become $ grubbing ---!) there were on this tack.

you see many posts (hundreds if not more) over "yes he left me but he didn't give me closure- blah blah".

by the OP's schematic, no closure should be expected on EITHER side, and I just wnat to know if she believes that the goose is as good as the gander RE a male leaving as per what she said ala a femaleleaving, in the same way with EQUAL ability to say "sorry, no goodbye kiss" or any other Hallmark card material.

Ther IS a difference.




MistressYlwa -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 8:54:40 PM)

quote:

The essence of a BDSM relationship is, like any other relationship, not power, but love.


For myself, it is love of BDSM, not the sub, that is the basis of my relationships. I have had several long term relationships.  But I have only loved one slave, in my 32 yrs. in the lifestyle. We were together for 12 yrs., until his death.  I have cared for them, but I have not been in love with a slave, before or since. This is not to say that it cannot happen.  Anything is possible. But I don't look for or expect it.
 
Mistress Ylwa




Sanity -> RE: Illustion of Power (1/20/2007 9:07:40 PM)

I'm laughing, but with you. It's a lot like the people who go speeding down the freeway driving 5 - 10 m.p.h. over the speed limit who scream at anyone who passes them because they think they're reckless idiots who should be locked up, and yelling "THE GAS IS ON THE RIGHT, GRANDPA!!!" at anyone who drives any slower than they do. 

No one "wrote the book" and no one has all the answers, but we all seem to want the universe to align itself with our particular way of thinking. While it is true that I myself am often guilty of being judgemental of others, I am trying to become more open to the way others practice their own vision of how the lifestyle should be played out. I don't want to be judged, so who am I to judge others whether they are more vanilla than I am, or whether they are actual slavemasters and actual (consensual) slaves. There has to be a line, absolutely there does, and I'm all for it being there. But so long as any mentally competent slave has consented to be placed in the position he or she finds him or herself in, I am and I shall remain extremely hesitant to try to be the one to judge what goes on there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

As for the first part, she had the right to give her consent to be a slave. Of course until she gave her consent she was not a slave. It was her right to consent to non consent. The right to leave does not equal the ability to leave though, no matter how you color it. Perhaps some day she will develop teeth capable of chewing through metal, but until that time....


So now she is no longer there by choice and you feel this need to keep her in metal just to be sure she will not leave.  Interesting. 


Who said that it was not by choice? Was it not her choice to enter into this type of slavery? And must you assume that the chains are purely physical? There are numerous ways to restrain a person mentally. Read up on the story of Colleen Stan to see methods that were used in her non consensual captivity to better understand this. I am not condoning that story, but rather pointing out that control vastly transcends the physical. What is truly interesting is that some people are so intimidated by those of us that practice something approaching actual slavery that they seek to either deny its existence or point fingers while yelling how illegal it all is. Like the bruises on a sub's ass aren't illegal. So legality isn't an issue if it concerns you, but it is if it exceeds what you want in your relationship? Where did I leave my dictionary? I know that there is a word for this somewhere in there!

And as for " breaking them down to build them up again ".... Take a glance at the practices of military boot camp in the past. They relied on fear, intimidation, sleep deprivation, toiling exercise, and shouted degrading insults to accomplish exactly this result. Only in America's more recent military history has this process been changed. It is a fully functional method of accomplishing exactly what the OP claims cannot happen.




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