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Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 6:15:39 AM   
MistressWolfen


Posts: 578
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		Just heard of and have skimmed through and interesting new site that claims "it is an uncensorable version of wikipedia for untraceable mass document leaking and analysis... The lists are excellent. Thought some of the regular posters to Off Topics may enjoy it. The originators of the idea will be interviewed on CBC Radio program The Current this evening.
http://www.wikileaks.org/index.html

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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 7:11:43 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressWolfen

Just heard of and have skimmed through and interesting new site that claims "it is an uncensorable version of wikipedia for untraceable mass document leaking and analysis... The lists are excellent. Thought some of the regular posters to Off Topics may enjoy it. The originators of the idea will be interviewed on CBC Radio program The Current this evening.
http://www.wikileaks.org/index.html


Oh this oughta be good! 

It will be interesting to see if it really works since all it takes to censor is money :)  Of course like in the 911, (and other cases),  another avenue is equally as bad and possibly worse than censorship is the insertion of "propaganda analysis" which is used to target the masses on an emotional approach rather than academic approach and i am sure that will vibrantly infiltrate it too.

Maybe this will wake the news media up to the responsibilities they have long since forgotten as well...  i can see this being a really good thang!

great post!
r1

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/18/2007 7:33:35 AM >

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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 12:31:44 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		An interesting idea. Three problems I reckon:

1) Political bias of the owners = owner censorhip in some areas.

2) Inundated with complete nonsense = censorship by virtue of having to sift through this stuff to get to anything worth a read.

3) Anything remotely enlightening will be censored by form of bribe or worse.

A great idea though and I'll certainly be looking forward to having a read of it. Here's hoping they come up with the goods.

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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 2:48:13 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL RealOne
..another avenue is equally as bad and possibly worse than censorship is the insertion of "propaganda analysis" which is used to target the masses on an emotional approach rather than academic approach


If anyone contradicts me on this then I shall get very angry and then where will we be ?
The only way to influence the masses is by using emotional approach.

"Academic" is for nerds and geeks !

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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 5:03:34 PM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		Having read some of the mails between forming members..................

1) Political bias of the owners = owner censorhip in some areas.

Nope, No censorship at all

2) Inundated with complete nonsense = censorship by virtue of having to sift through this stuff to get to anything worth a read.

Being a wiki everything is subject to peer review

3) Anything remotely enlightening will be censored by form of bribe or worse.

Nope, I have been a visitor to the sites of one of the founding members for many years now, and the ONLY thing he has ever pulled is imagery subject to copyright (that was freely available elsewhere) otherwise not even thinly veiled threats from the feds have made any difference



The main aim of wikileaks is for residents of those countries with truly oppressive regimes eg somlia, china, etc to spread and discuss data, rather than to be yet another crackpot conspiracy theory site



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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 5:35:12 PM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		My understanding is these will not be editable entries, just a clearing house for whistle blowers to upload "incriminating" evidence anonymously. Their main focus is protecting the identity of the uploaders.

They already have over two million items in waiting.

Pro: Allows people in oppressive regimes to export information in a relatively, but not perfectly safe manner. - No censorship.

Con: No censorship - Information overload.  - Posting of malicious material or disinformation.  - Posting of private or proprietory information without just cause.

The program MistressWolfen mentioned, the Current, can be downloaded here http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2007/200701/20070118.html

Scroll down a few pages for the right segment.



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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 5:43:57 PM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

They will be able to interpret documents and explain their relevance to the public. If a document comes from the Chinese government, the entire Chinese dissident community can freely scrutinize and discuss it; if a document arrives from Iran, the entire Farsi community can analyze it and put it in context.


Based on the above I dont think original articles will be editable, just commentable, so it is perfectly possible for a piece of bad info to be commented as being bad. Allows readers to pick & choose what they believe.

I would however have to go back and read the mails or site to be sure of that.

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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 6:03:55 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy
rather than to be yet another crackpot conspiracy theory site



well you have certainly accused me of that and have yet back any of those BIG words up!


quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy
In ALL instances I would suggest replacing "the" with "some". Once you can deal with that simple issue I may pay a little more attention to such rambles, but it is pretty unlikely.

On a personal note THE victims I know are perfectly content with the answers they have, are pleased with the justice that has been handed out, believe that the official inevestigation was suitably in-depth, have laid their ghosts to rest as best as possible and believe the government no less and no more than 10 years ago.

As for closure, I am sure many would find it easier if some folks didnt regularly dredge out some of the more absurd concepts.


care to elaborate? especially that last line where you use the word absurd.

from my post #19 where i look forward to hearing your data in response to your continued "emotional" claims.  So bring it on, lets hear your "data"!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_768388/mpage_2/tm.htm

Otherwise i will have to conclude that you have no data and your real purpose on these topics is nothing more than propaganda.  So in the vernacular, money talks bullshit walks!   So far you did not supply even one, that is not even one statement much less data to support your emotional accusations.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/18/2007 6:06:13 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to sleazy)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 6:19:49 PM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		My estimate of their available articles was off by about a million (1.2 m in waiting.). Well I had the right order of magnitude at least.

It is a little unclear if the originals will be editable or not. From the FAQ.

How will Wikileaks operate?

To the user, Wikileaks will look very much like Wikipedia. Anybody can post to it, anybody can edit it. No technical knowledge is required. Leakers can post documents anonymously and untraceably. Users can publicly discuss documents and analyze their credibility and veracity. Users can discuss interpretations and context and collaboratively formulate collective publications. Users can read and write explanatory articles on leaks along with background material and context. The political relevance of documents and their verisimilitude will be revealed by a cast of thousands.
It sounds promising and if it remains flexible and self correcting it should be a fairly reliable source, certainly a good alternate perspective. It's in my bookmarks.

Z.


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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 6:27:01 PM   
HatesParisHilton


Posts: 3513
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		are there any safeguards for this to not become just a pseudo political version of "Don't Date Him Girl.com"?

so far, I can't see any.

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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 7:17:06 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		It sounds like a good idea in theory but won't work.  If its edited, it will be censored(same thing in this context).  If its not edited it will be gamed.  Who decides what can be posted?  Who decides the order of comments?  Could I post an article and then post 1000 comments agreeing with it?  Would anyone who used it for reference have to sift through 1000 positive comments by me under 1000 fake names?   Or the editors could decide to move some "anti comments" to the front to be more "representative". What order are they in?  And there is a huge bias in selection of which articles gets placed at the front, it could be a valid reasoned critique or it could be tin hat jibberish.   This will be a godsend for politicos of all ideologies and tin hat folks, they will be able to quote themselves in a shadier way than they already do.

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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 7:28:54 PM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy
rather than to be yet another crackpot conspiracy theory site



well you have certainly accused me of that and have yet back any of those BIG words up!



Untrue.

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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 7:33:09 PM   
HatesParisHilton


Posts: 3513
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		LOL, if this is how the thread ABOUT the site starts, just imagine how the site itself shall transpire.



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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 7:42:15 PM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		It is my understanding that many of the team behind the project are old hands dealing with the interweb, so I would imagine there will be plenty safeguards to prevent techncial mis-use of the site.

I can see the potential for abuse, but on the other hand I can see some logic behind leaking something even if it is pounced upon and buried under lots of camoflage by those who would rather the data not be published. Once the data is out the astute can dig it up and form their own opinions. With 2,000,000 files on hold, let us pretend that just 5% of them are things the Chinese powers would not like available, thats still 100,000 files, an awful lot to discredit completely even with the resources of such a large country. The boy can only shove so many fingers in the dyke :)


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Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/18/2007 9:13:52 PM   
MistressYlwa


Posts: 263
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline 		If it works, as it says it will, then I will be on it regularly. I do hope that it doesn't turn into some scandal rag, used to disseminate rumor or hearsay.
 
Mistress Ylwa

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RE: Corruption and malfeasance - 1/19/2007 10:41:41 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		...and yet.......wikipedia, which organisationally works in the same way is highly effective. All your criticisms could apply to the encyclopedia equally, but wasn't there some survey a while back that rated wikipedia the most effective source of its type online?

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Profile   Post #: 16
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