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MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 10:16:07 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection
===================================================

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Last updated 28 December 2006

Executive Summary
-----------------

Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to
provide content protection for so-called "premium content", typically HD data
from Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sources. Providing this protection incurs
considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical
support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not
only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the
protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever
come into contact with Vista, even if it's not used directly with Vista (for
example hardware in a Macintosh computer or on a Linux server). This document
analyses the cost involved in Vista's content protection, and the collateral
damage that this incurs throughout the computer industry.

[Mod Note: remainder deleted.  Refer to the link at the top of the post to read the content in it's entirety]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 12/28/2006 10:26:50 AM >

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RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 10:49:49 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		The worst part, afaik, is that it'll take your HD content, and DOWNSAMPLE then UPSAMPLE it, rendering it shittly looking.

Mythtv rocks, by the way. It doesn't do any of that shit, and puts MSFT Media Center HTPC to shame...


(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 11:18:39 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The worst part, afaik, is that it'll take your HD content, and DOWNSAMPLE then UPSAMPLE it, rendering it shittly looking.

Mythtv rocks, by the way. It doesn't do any of that shit, and puts MSFT Media Center HTPC to shame...




i look at the bright side, time to short micro dog LOL


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 11:26:02 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


i look at the bright side, time to short micro dog LOL


You'd think so, but the pre-installs on new systems will keep the train rolling for a while. And all those Win2k/Celeron machines WILL have to be replaced if your using any .Net-3.0 applications.


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RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 2:47:35 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		.Net.... ahh more Microcrap.

Anyone want to take bets on the gigantic size of the Vista flop?  I imagine it to be on par with ET for Atari.

Seriously, I find it increasingly difficult to grasp the real dollar value of applications for Vista that can't function on XP.  There's no greater implementation (nor expectation) of x64, no overhaul of the 32 bit scheme, no bar being raised for RAM, nothing besides the standard headache for enterprise level solutions: in fact, nothing at all to justify the difference between a $400 (retail) Vista OS and it's 50$ish XP Pro Full + 50$ Stardock's Object Desktop (which can be used to make your XP Pro look exactly like Vista.)  Oh, besides the bloat/spy/crippleware that MS wants to include (the lovely Chess Titans program from Oberon aside - but c'mon, it's still just a Chess game.)  Did I mention driver compatibility and user permission problems? 

Even the most die-hard Microsoft fans are starting to react in horror.  Anyone who's ever typed in a windows problem to Google has likely come across Paul Thurrot's Supersite for Windows.  In his Review on the Feb 06 beta builds:

quote:

I'll leave a fuller examination of Vista's broken promises for a later date. For now, let's look ...and see where Vista just completely blows it. As with the broken promises, Vista's failures are legion,


He waters down some of his more recent criticism, though his latest review seems to focus more on nostalgia over his children and his high hopes for the computing world than anything particularly groundbreaking to come from Redmond, Washington.  As a man who makes his own living based on other people's enthusiasm for Windows, I consider his surrender to reflect that felt by many of Bill Gate's most die-hard fans, in the American tradition of Pete Rose and Richard Nixon.


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(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 5:37:29 PM   
mgdartist


Posts: 328
Joined: 5/13/2006
From: irving tx
Status: offline 		strange, didnt see any of that in my new vista install.
guess cuz i got it from the guys with patches over their eyeballs.
funny how they have to fix everything M$ queers up.

lol.


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RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 5:49:10 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		I do think Vista will be a flop as much as it can be anyway, seeing it will still be the default installation on most home computers. I think Microsoft will get hit on the corporate side of sales though and this will just be another reason to go the route of Linux. I've read a good amount about it, and see no reason to buy it.

I mean when 95 came out I wanted it because there was some improvement
When XP I wanted it because there was some improvement
With Vista I could care less, they seem just to have made a bloated out overly controlled operating system, and feel the slick styling will make up for the lack of efficiency enhancements. And I didn't know everything in that article you referred to, but it really makes no sense now.

Actually I turn off all the nifty display things even in XP, because I just want the OS to load shit, I don't sit there staring at the OS. Microsoft seems to think people actually care what the OS looks like after the initial "oh, that looks cool" day has worn off.

They should if they want to make people want it, just make shit work faster and easier.






(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 6:00:11 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The worst part, afaik, is that it'll take your HD content, and DOWNSAMPLE then UPSAMPLE it, rendering it shittly looking.

Mythtv rocks, by the way. It doesn't do any of that shit, and puts MSFT Media Center HTPC to shame...




i look at the bright side, time to short micro dog LOL



Microsoft has at least 15 years left in the game and anyone that shorts Microsoft (whether in the stock...or in the actual business world) is playing with a short deck.

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 6:02:05 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

I do think Vista will be a flop as much as it can be anyway, seeing it will still be the default installation on most home computers. I think Microsoft will get hit on the corporate side of sales though and this will just be another reason to go the route of Linux. I've read a good amount about it, and see no reason to buy it.

I mean when 95 came out I wanted it because there was some improvement
When XP I wanted it because there was some improvement
With Vista I could care less, they seem just to have made a bloated out overly controlled operating system, and feel the slick styling will make up for the lack of efficiency enhancements. And I didn't know everything in that article you referred to, but it really makes no sense now.

Actually I turn off all the nifty display things even in XP, because I just want the OS to load shit, I don't sit there staring at the OS. Microsoft seems to think people actually care what the OS looks like after the initial "oh, that looks cool" day has worn off.

They should if they want to make people want it, just make shit work faster and easier.


I don't even know how to respond to this.

Those of you that think Microsoft will shortly become relegated to the scrap heap are smoking vastly better stuff than I've ever been able to get my hands on.

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 6:15:39 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

Microsoft has at least 15 years left in the game and anyone that shorts Microsoft (whether in the stock...or in the actual business world) is playing with a short deck.


Why's that?

No one is saying they are going out of business. But Microsoft as closing was trading at 29.98 and in June was trading as low as 21.51. Most of that trading difference is in anticipation of Vista and the windfall it is supposed to produce.  So the stock is up over the last 6 months by about 40 percent. And really the only thing that has happened is disappointment over the vista release.

In my view there is probably a way better chance it trends back down to the mid 20's than up to 35 range in a few months.

Could be wrong? but what reason was there for a 40 percent gain in the last 6 months?
And it's trading above the level it has for 4 years as of this week.

Don't know if it's the best company to short sell, but it's not the worst.

Personally, I would short sell if it did go up to around 33.00 on some articficially stock inflating good news, and buy if it hit 22 dollar range.  But for now I would just wait a bit longer.




(in reply to LTRsubNW)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 6:19:33 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

I do think Vista will be a flop as much as it can be anyway, seeing it will still be the default installation on most home computers. I think Microsoft will get hit on the corporate side of sales though and this will just be another reason to go the route of Linux. I've read a good amount about it, and see no reason to buy it.

I mean when 95 came out I wanted it because there was some improvement
When XP I wanted it because there was some improvement
With Vista I could care less, they seem just to have made a bloated out overly controlled operating system, and feel the slick styling will make up for the lack of efficiency enhancements. And I didn't know everything in that article you referred to, but it really makes no sense now.

Actually I turn off all the nifty display things even in XP, because I just want the OS to load shit, I don't sit there staring at the OS. Microsoft seems to think people actually care what the OS looks like after the initial "oh, that looks cool" day has worn off.

They should if they want to make people want it, just make shit work faster and easier.


I don't even know how to respond to this.

Those of you that think Microsoft will shortly become relegated to the scrap heap are smoking vastly better stuff than I've ever been able to get my hands on.


Put down the pipe.

I didn't say they were going out of business, I said Vista isn't going to convince many business to invest in it, as there aren't much improvements that businesses care about in there.

Were you draw I said they were going to the scrap heap, from my post which essentially says they probably won't lose much home usage, but more than likely will lose a some corporate usage is beyond me.

(in reply to LTRsubNW)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 6:26:43 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

Microsoft has at least 15 years left in the game and anyone that shorts Microsoft (whether in the stock...or in the actual business world) is playing with a short deck.


Why's that?

No one is saying they are going out of business. But Microsoft as closing was trading at 29.98 and in June was trading as low as 21.51.


(Hmmmm...that kinda sounds like a roughly 46% increase in valuation {over fewer than 6 months} on a stock that everyone has lambasted for more than 5 years, in a stock market that has seen barely 12% movement....well now...I'd say that largely proves the discussion...eh?)

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 6:28:05 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

Microsoft has at least 15 years left in the game and anyone that shorts Microsoft (whether in the stock...or in the actual business world) is playing with a short deck.


Why's that?

No one is saying they are going out of business. But Microsoft as closing was trading at 29.98 and in June was trading as low as 21.51.


(Hmmmm...that kinda sounds like a roughly 46% increase in valuation {over fewer than 6 months} on a stock that everyone has lambasted for more than 5 years, in a stock market that has seen barely 12% movement....well now...I'd say that largely proves the discussion...eh?)


Yeah, you sell high and buy low, duh. You don't buy after a stock has run up 40% you'd have to be a retard.

(in reply to LTRsubNW)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 6:29:19 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

I do think Vista will be a flop as much as it can be anyway, seeing it will still be the default installation on most home computers. I think Microsoft will get hit on the corporate side of sales though and this will just be another reason to go the route of Linux. I've read a good amount about it, and see no reason to buy it.

I mean when 95 came out I wanted it because there was some improvement
When XP I wanted it because there was some improvement
With Vista I could care less, they seem just to have made a bloated out overly controlled operating system, and feel the slick styling will make up for the lack of efficiency enhancements. And I didn't know everything in that article you referred to, but it really makes no sense now.

Actually I turn off all the nifty display things even in XP, because I just want the OS to load shit, I don't sit there staring at the OS. Microsoft seems to think people actually care what the OS looks like after the initial "oh, that looks cool" day has worn off.

They should if they want to make people want it, just make shit work faster and easier.


I don't even know how to respond to this.

Those of you that think Microsoft will shortly become relegated to the scrap heap are smoking vastly better stuff than I've ever been able to get my hands on.


Put down the pipe.

I didn't say they were going out of business, I said Vista isn't going to convince many business to invest in it, as there aren't much improvements that businesses care about in there.

Were you draw I said they were going to the scrap heap, from my post which essentially says they probably won't lose much home usage, but more than likely will lose a some corporate usage is beyond me.



Don't bet against the mastadon.

There are no known asteroids heading towards Earth at this time.

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 6:32:22 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Yeah, you sell high and buy low, duh. You don't buy after a stock has run up 40% you'd have to be a retard.



(Well...I'm one of those dumb fucks that bought 700 shares about 4 months ago at $24.77 knowing all the brilliant fucks out there that thought it was a losers bet were simply hopeful...sue me).

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 6:38:18 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Yeah, you sell high and buy low, duh. You don't buy after a stock has run up 40% you'd have to be a retard.



(Well...I'm one of those dumb fucks that bought 700 shares about 4 months ago at $24.77 knowing all the brilliant fucks out there that thought it was a losers bet were simply hopeful...sue me).


Well, actually it wouldn't be a bad deal at 24.77. So you're not a retard. Because it was trading well beneath it's average valuation. Now it's opposite it's trading above it's valuation, and I see no reason for it to top out much higher.

Same with Appl people a couple months ago were all saying it's going to 120.00. It might in a few years but it got into the 90's and is down to the 80's now.

I wouldn't get so emotionally involved with the companies you invest in if I were you.

A great buy at 24.00 can be a shitty buy at 30.00 I'd take the money and run at this point. Or put some kind of limit on your position. If you want to see if it peaks higher without risking to much.

(in reply to LTRsubNW)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 6:41:56 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		"Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon, and for the rest of your life."

I don't have a stock interest either way.  I'm not saying Microsoft will tank financially.  I'm saying it did tank, product wise with Vista.  It's their flagship, just as McIntosh was a flagship.  In some form or fashion, Microsoft will recreate themselves, just as Apple is making a second run as the Walkman Wonder.  That doesn't make it Sony.

Microsoft is losing in 2009-2012 because they stopped delivering in 2001 what they revolutionized in the 1990s.   Why was Windows 95 better?  Because it represented a huge leap in processor architecture - using 32 bit code.  Vista -still- relies on 32 bit code, it's like saying the Model T engine worked fine, lets keep using it in 1979.  Instead of pushing the mark with processing power, it's pushing their own integrated Anti-Virus programs for a 'reasonable' monthly subscription.  It's like the car manufacturer offering to sell you the windshield wipers and gas cap as after market items - sure, you can get by without em or buy them elsewhere, but....

That's just it.  There's nothing new coming out of Redmond.  Because the young innovators who loved computers and bits now love their fancy porches and tea time, and buy every new idea that comes along.  History and statistics tell us when the status quo gets stagnant, something or someone will come along and shake it up.  No major contenders are there yet (though many expect to see it from Google - and I suspect they will play a role.)  It's just a matter of time.

Stephan


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Men: Find a Woman here

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: MS Vista (suicide?) - 12/28/2006 8:33:24 PM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
Microsoft is losing in 2009-2012 because they stopped delivering in 2001 what they revolutionized in the 1990s.   Why was Windows 95 better?  Because it represented a huge leap in processor architecture - using 32 bit code.  Vista -still- relies on 32 bit code, it's like saying the Model T engine worked fine, lets keep using it in 1979. 

 
Well here it is, 2006 (almost 7!) and we are still using the internal combustion engine, just refined a little rather than rebuilt. I would argue a new GM ecotec engine is far closer to a tin-lizzies old lump than Vista is to previous windows versions

To put it in perspective, how long had 32bit processors been the norm in the desktop PC before Microsoft made the switch to true 32-bit code? Off the top of my head the 386 came out in about 86, the first true 32bit o/s from microsoft was windows 95 (some may argue windows 2000), so that would be 9 years, I shall expect a true 64-bit desktop o/s roundabout 2012.

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