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Go Teddy - 12/23/2006 1:55:08 AM

MrrPete

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The words of Theodore Roosevelt on immigration.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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RE: Go Teddy - 12/23/2006 6:06:29 AM

KenDckey

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Amen Mr Pete. Illegals don't come in good faith. Society has forced us to choose a class of people to belong to ailenate us from being Americans. I don't understand how these things can be good for us.

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RE: Go Teddy - 12/23/2006 7:57:21 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Amen Mr Pete. Illegals don't come in good faith. Society has forced us to choose a class of people to belong to ailenate us from being Americans. I don't understand how these things can be good for us.

Surely all emigres went to the Americas in hope of a better life, some succeeded, some didn't, how different are illegals in wanting that for themselves?

I don't believe any emigres went to America to be Americans per se, good or bad but for the mythical streets of gold.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/23/2006 7:59:05 AM >

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RE: Go Teddy - 12/23/2006 9:43:42 AM

diamonddreamlove

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My own ancesters appears to have been either thrown out of other countries or been explorers. In reading their history it appears they didn't all come of their free will but once here set out to make a life for themselves that worked for them. If the tables were turned could we ourselves have the courage to move to another country not knowing their langauage and customs, and assimilate ourselves there knowing we would not be able to bring part of our american heritage with us. Perhaps i could do that as an explorer but as an future citizen of that country i think i would always have those strings to my home. I agree that learning the host countries ways would be imensely important but to give up english completely and start fresh would be horrendous.

Just visiting Montreal earlier this year was difficult. I do not speak or write French. While most things were easy to interpret (i think i was always in the ladies room and not mens) others were a bit more challenging. Underground parking for several stories is not something i have been exposed to in the midwest. Major tall buildings are not that plentiful in my area. I was daunted by the parking lot. This one had few if any arrows pointing the way. Signs were not in english and translating mph to klm was fairly easy but ordering from the menu. Well fortunately at the hotel there were bilingual staff and the exit doors at the hotel were in english and french. Money was different. They took my american bills refused my change giving me theirs instead. Overall was an exciting experience for a week and i learned a tremendous amount. Try a pharmacy when you have a bad cold and them otc drugs are all written in french. Gives a new perspective to what immigrants legal and illegal deal with in our country. I am not saying we should give up our language to accomodate or to change our culture but we would be big losers if we can't help them to assimilate into our culture. Roosevelt was in my opinion right on with what he said he just didn't say enough. All is said in my humble opinion. Please don't roast me.

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RE: Go Teddy - 12/23/2006 10:19:56 AM

KenDckey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Surely all emigres went to the Americas in hope of a better life, some succeeded, some didn't, how different are illegals in wanting that for themselves?

I don't believe any emigres went to America to be Americans per se, good or bad but for the mythical streets of gold.

Oh I agree that the goals and desires are probably the same.   the Drive is probably even greater in illegals because they spurn the Rule of Law. What is the difference between an illegal alien and a burgler?   Nothing much really.   The desire to make ones self better is basically the same,   The conformity to the rule of law is the same even tho the laws are different.

Long ago, there were no laws governing who could come here.   Was that right?   I don't know, but the majority of those that came seemed to work hard in makiing sure they "melt" into society.   Some people were forced to come here as slaves and indentured servents. After a period they were allowed to return to their native countries or a country was carved out for them in Africa.   Was that right, again I don't know.   I do know that some chose to go and some didn't.   But all these people were, based upon the rule of law were legally in the country at the time.

So my point.   If desire and rule of law were the same, then there would be no illegals. But they aren't the same.   So what are we gonna do.   Enforce the law's or allow desires to rule us or finally change the laws so that desires = law?

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RE: Go Teddy - 12/23/2006 10:59:41 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

But all these people were, based upon the rule of law were legally in the country at the time.

This is all a matter of perception on whose law you are talking about. If I was a Native American I doubt I would see a difference between any European emigre no matter whose law they claimed to be in US under, though I would have some sympathy for the Africans.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/23/2006 11:02:45 AM >

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RE: Go Teddy - 12/23/2006 11:14:58 AM

KenDckey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

This is all a matter of perception on whose law you are talking about. If I was a Native American I doubt I would see a difference between any European emigre no matter whose law they claimed to be in US under, though I would have some sympathy for the Africans.

And I would probably agree.   However during the times that I believe you are talking about there was no concerted rule of law applicable to all within the native american tribes. And I believe that the native americans did have extra sympathy for the Africans that were here, whether free men or slave.

I believe that each tribe had a set of rules that it lived by, that held them together, usually for their mutual protection against other tribes and then the invaders from abroad.   I also believe that they themselves were invaders who crossed over from distant lands at some point in history for some reason.

But now we have written rules, applicable to all.   Without these rules our society would be in much worse shape than it is now.   If we don't agree with the rules, then I suggest you work to change them.   Not ignore them.   Ignoring them is like telling the good looking burglar they can get off because of their looks and desires. Doest matter that they broke the law.

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RE: Go Teddy - 12/23/2006 3:09:06 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
What is the difference between an illegal alien and a burgler?

...on the whole illegal aliens tend not to piss on the carpet. They're too busy cleaning the carpet.........for a couple of dollars less an hour than a citizen will do it for........

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RE: Go Teddy - 12/23/2006 3:42:34 PM

KenDckey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...on the whole illegal aliens tend not to piss on the carpet. They're too busy cleaning the carpet.........for a couple of dollars less an hour than a citizen will do it for........

ROFLMAO Yeah that is so true. but I can hire a teenager who works cheap too and not violate child labor laws. Course it seems to me that we would rather outsource to illegals than to pay our citizens. Could be wrong.

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RE: Go Teddy - 12/24/2006 7:01:51 AM

krikket

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i just moved and now live in a largely hispanic community. It's like most community families: good, bad and loads in the middle. i don't think they quite know what to do with the old white lady now living among them, but from what i've seen during my first 10 days here, i've come to admire them greatly. Personally i don't think i'd make a very good immigrant: moving to another country where there's a fair amount of hostility, where i don't speak the language, understand the money or other units of measurement, learn how to use public transportation, find an apartment, find a job, put my kids in schools -- the list goes on. On the other side this issue is my job in which i review contracts and other immigration documents to recommend or not if the person who wants to come to the USA to work on a tv show or movie or a record label actually meets the federal requirements. As a parent i would have done anything i could to provide my children with a good ( better) life, so for me the problem is one fraught with emotions on both sides.

Cheers,
j

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RE: Go Teddy - 12/24/2006 12:18:55 PM

KenDckey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: krikket

i just moved and now live in a largely hispanic community. It's like most community families: good, bad and loads in the middle. i don't think they quite know what to do with the old white lady now living among them, but from what i've seen during my first 10 days here, i've come to admire them greatly. Personally i don't think i'd make a very good immigrant: moving to another country where there's a fair amount of hostility, where i don't speak the language, understand the money or other units of measurement, learn how to use public transportation, find an apartment, find a job, put my kids in schools -- the list goes on. On the other side this issue is my job in which i review contracts and other immigration documents to recommend or not if the person who wants to come to the USA to work on a tv show or movie or a record label actually meets the federal requirements. As a parent i would have done anything i could to provide my children with a good ( better) life, so for me the problem is one fraught with emotions on both sides.

Cheers,
j

I agree there are good bad and in between in all parts of society. My Daughter in Law is Hispanic. My grand daughter is married to a Hispanic. My sons are African American (white ones which causes wonderful confusion to the nose counters). To me the issues is simple. Not should they be here, but did they come legally. Bottom line. If they didn't, send them back and strengthen our borders. If they came legally, welcome them with open arms and help them assimulate into our society.

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