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Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 3:11:15 AM

meatcleaver

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Ehud Olmert dropped a proverbial bollock and admited to Israel possessing nuclear weapons on German TV. I've seen the rerun and he definitely and quite confidently said it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1970861,00.html

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 6:42:17 AM

aviinterra

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I am surprised there has been so little response to this, not only on the boards but in general everywhere. We in the U.S. should pay attention - 2 billion dollars could build a lot of new roads. Hypocracy in this area should stop and not be tolerated, either we get rid of them ( my fav option ) or let anyone develop them, that way, at least the whole world will be sitting on a time bomb and everyone will be scared to pulled the trigger.

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 7:11:22 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

I am surprised there has been so little response to this, not only on the boards but in general everywhere.

Why?

It's like unwrapping a surfboard given as a present on Christmas. Although it was covered with paper how much of a surprise was it?

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 7:26:36 AM

meatcleaver

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Of course it's no surprise Merc but now there can be no pretence (no matter how ridiculous it was) that Israel's and the US and the west's position is and always has been, one of gross hypocrisy. Bush and Blair have been criticizing Syria and Iran for not being straight when a good look in the mirror would have been better. The west really has no moral high ground, no matter how much Bush and Blair would like to invoke civilised standards. The truth is, they have none themselves.

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 7:47:31 AM

seeksfemslave

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As long as nuclear weapons can be kept out of the hands of suicidal fundamentalist madmen I am not convinced that they make the world an unsafer place.

See India/Pakistan drawing back from the brink. US/USSR conflict not escalating. How about the Cuban missile crisis ? That was kept relatively civilised wasn't it ? Did nuclear weapons come into the equation ? I think so.

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 7:50:03 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Of course it's no surprise Merc but now there can be no pretense (no matter how ridiculous it was) that Israel's and the US and the west's position is and always has been, one of gross hypocrisy. Bush and Blair have been criticizing Syria and Iran for not being straight when a good look in the mirror would have been better. The west really has no moral high ground, no matter how much Bush and Blair would like to invoke civilized standards. The truth is, they have none themselves.

Sorry MC, but this is another example of a wrapped surfboard.

I could turn it around and ask why Dafur is below the horizon and attention of the world and site the reason being that Muslim atrocities are excused. Or take it to the US where the ACLU comes to the rescue of Islamic taxi drivers refusing fares carrying a bottle of holiday cheer, but sue because a 100 year old symbol for Los Angeles has to remove a cross.

Hypocrisy is all around. More so now because the majority of the population determines what is right and wrong based upon buzzwords and the slant of the news either liberal or conservative. The ignorance of the masses is exploited, creating a world of hypocrisy examples. Of course it's all justified.

We went into Iraq for oil. We went into Iraq to free it's citizens from a sadistic evil dictator. We went into Iraq to establish democracy. What if all those statements were true? Now you have to slant the information to support the position you think is "most right" usually using arguments against the other statements you know are true. That's the birth of hypocrisy, arguing against a position you know is true. The altruistic reasons shouldn't justify it, but we rationalize they do. We go on wrapping surfboards.

It takes effort to not be a hypocrite. For example, I want the US out of Iraq now. That statement seems clear enough. But add to it, "I support the troops", and you have hypocrisy. Supporting the troops means supporting what they are doing. Supporting them means backing them in word here in the safe contentment of my office. I know the US troops enemies are strengthened in numbers and gives them emotional comfort by my position that I want them home. Saying I support the troops is hypocritical, because by it's very nature, "Bring them home!" strengthens their enemies, creates more enemy troops, and in effect, gives US troops a higher chance of being killed. The reality is I don't support the troops as long as I desire them to leave. Anything else is a wrapped surfboard.

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 8:02:44 AM

meatcleaver

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All true but the one thing Olmert revelations do, is to legitimize Iran's or anyone elses right to have nuclear weapons in the eyes of most of the world even if the US is against it. The US and the west can sanction Iran but it is not from the moral high ground and it exposes the west as countries that can't be trusted. If anyone thought they could in the first place.

Dafur has little to do with religion, all involved being muslim and everything to do with ethnicity. If the west ever cared about human rights, it would have brought down many dictatorships and not just ones with oil or those ideologically opposed to capitalism.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/13/2006 8:03:19 AM >

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 8:23:38 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aviinterra

I am surprised there has been so little response to this, not only on the boards but in general everywhere. We in the U.S. should pay attention - 2 billion dollars could build a lot of new roads. Hypocracy in this area should stop and not be tolerated, either we get rid of them ( my fav option ) or let anyone develop them, that way, at least the whole world will be sitting on a time bomb and everyone will be scared to pulled the trigger.

I agree and I don't support our govt. being in the "foreign aid business".
Merc, good analogy!

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 9:08:24 AM

Emperor1956

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To the OP: Israel has had nuclear bomb capability since 1986, according to the Federation of American Scientists (not an unbiased group, but knowledgeable). Israel acknowledged its nuclear bomb development program in 2001, in a widely published Israeli made documentary featuring an interview with Peres.

Where's the story? There is no story. There are no "Olmert revelations". Anyone who thinks otherwise is just grinding his old tired axe again. Or is just 5-15 years behind in his fomenting.

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< Message edited by Emperor1956 -- 12/13/2006 9:09:56 AM >

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 9:28:55 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

To the OP: Israel has had nuclear bomb capability since 1986, according to the Federation of American Scientists (not an unbiased group, but knowledgeable). Israel acknowledged its nuclear bomb development program in 2001, in a widely published Israeli made documentary featuring an interview with Peres.

Where's the story? There is no story. There are no "Olmert revelations". Anyone who thinks otherwise is just grinding his old tired axe again. Or is just 5-15 years behind in his fomenting.

E.

Everyone knows they have had nuclear weapons for several decades but I would like to see evidence that Peres did admit to Israel having them. He was on TV the other night insisting on the policy of nuclear ambiguity.

The only difference this makes is that the US and Israel have to give up the pretence of being on the moral highground and that US's nuclear policy of being against nuclear proliferation is totally and utterly false and meaningless as it doesn't sanction countries that have nuclear weapons but in the case of Israel, rewards them.

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 9:57:36 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
All true but the one thing Olmert revelations do, is to legitimize Iran's or anyone elses right to have nuclear weapons in the eyes of most of the world even if the US is against it. The US and the west can sanction Iran but it is not from the moral high ground and it exposes the west as countries that can't be trusted. If anyone thought they could in the first place.

Dafur has little to do with religion, all involved being muslim and everything to do with ethnicity. If the west ever cared about human rights, it would have brought down many dictatorships and not just ones with oil or those ideologically opposed to capitalism.

Once again we are in complete agreement. How boring is that!?

My focus on the religion of the people involved in Dafur is misplaced. When being slaughtered it matters little that the person doing the slaughtering has the same religion.

The US and the rest of the west, can be against Iran or N. Korea going nuclear to protect their "best interests"; but seeing it as hypocritical is accurate. Do you truly believe Olmert's revelation is the key to pointing to western hypocrisy? Will his revelation accelerate in any way Iran's or Korea's attempt?

My western prejudice makes me believe that Iran and N. Korea would be more likely to use those weapons versus Israel. Based in part on published statements from the leaders of both those countries. However I concede the point that their "right" to have nukes is their right. I still maintain, that the distinction between the West and the Islamic world, as represented by their leaders, is they do not believe in allowing the existence of any other "rights" but those of Islam.

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 2:56:44 PM

Emperor1956

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quote:

Meatcleaver: but I would like to see evidence that Peres did admit to Israel having them.

The FAS Paper: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/farr.htm

Specific to Peres (and a lot easier to read): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/12/23/wnuke23.xml

E.

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Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 3:05:40 PM

meatcleaver

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I remember seeing the documentary mentioned in the article now I am reminded of it. He almost admits it but not quite. OK I admit its splitting hairs but with all the commotion in Israel, splitting hairs seems important to them.

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RE: Olmert gaff, admits Israel has the bomb. - 12/13/2006 3:15:53 PM

MasterKalif

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While it is true that those who know, Israel has had nuclear weapons since at least 1986, however they had always denied it as rumors and such....this would be the first time the government openly acknokledges it in front of the press too. I agree with meatcleaver in terms of the disgusting hipocrisy when it comes to nuclea weapons proliferation....while I dislike the findamentalist regime in Tehran, I also dislike the fact that the Israelis should be the only ones to have it......this reinforces the opinion the the west does not have the moral ground to tell other little countries not to arm themselves in this manner, when after all, they are guarding their own national security, whether the US likes it or not.

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