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RE: Curious to what others would do. - 12/8/2006 8:53:31 PM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Well, my mother got arrested and is sitting in jail about a mile from my present location for spitting on and assualting an officer.
Now, the problem is she does have an untreated mental disorder, which she refuses to get treatment for(actually denies even having a problem)and thus far hasn't directly harmed anyone(entirely by luck), so we couldn't make her get treatment. We asked about it a few years ago and basicly there is little to be done until she does something. I mean she did throw a brick threw a van's window once because they were "trying to get her". Obviously they weren't but they still wouldn't let us commit her, or get her treatment.

Well, obviously she did something now that there is no getting out of, and my view is it is better to leave her in jail and hope she flips out while in there so they will force treatment rather than post her bail. As my sister is calling to inform them of the history. Anyway, I sorta feel bad leaving her in there but I think it's the only way to get her forced to get treatment and face the reality that she's not talking to me by telepathy or anyone else for example, and strangers aren't demons that kinda thing.

Anyway, I'm sticking to what I'm doing just wondering if I'm just being a hard ass about it. I don't think so, but curious to if others would get her out of jail.

Basicly I believe she is schizopheric(spelling), she tries to cover it up, but once you get her going she will talk about everything and become angry if you don't agree with her. Like talking to jesus, and others via telepathy, out of body stuff, demon possesed people, believing she is an angel, writing messages on her roof, Television talking to her directly etc, etc....

This may not be what you want to hear, but:

Unless your mother is ''Bonny'' from ''Bonny & Clyde'' I'd get her out of jail right away. Jail is a shity place.....and not a place for your mother let alone an older woman.

At least once every couple of months, someone here in one of the rudy-toot jails in Oregon parishes because they are mentally ill, have an episode and then a crapily trained jail staff manhandles and inflicts great bodily harm on them.

I see nothing wrong with a good mental health facility, but leaving your mother to sit in jail is not something I would do.

Good luck

JMHO

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 12/8/2006 8:54:02 PM >

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RE: Curious to what others would do. - 12/8/2006 9:16:41 PM

WyrdRich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Because I'm not dealing with this forever. I've already dealt with it since school age and at some point it seems like you have to force treatment for your sanity.

      That's the hard choice. Motherhood is generally looked at as sacred in our culture, but not all of us got June Cleaver. You and your sibling/s are going to have to proceed based on the greater good. My brother is a dark cloud on the horizon, your situation sounds like a storm that has been going for years.

      A few years ago in LA, a woman of similar condition was killed by LAPD, trying to defend her shopping cart with a screwdriver. I think you have to force the issue now, not only for her safety, but for your sanity as well. Lawyer, DA or judge, getting the state to examine her seems like the rational decision.

      I haven't been there. I've laid awake contemplating it though. We are not wealthy. Getting my brother committed would place his 'care' in the hands of a beaurocracy and the lowest bidder on Gov't contracts. It would steal his freedom. Without believing he is a threat to others, I won't be party to that. And I could be wrong...

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RE: Curious to what others would do. - 12/8/2006 9:30:36 PM

emdoub

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Me, I'm leery of getting the court system to provide any actual help - I've seen too many instances of them just further complicating the issue. With any luck, the system where you're at is better.

But it's my way to look for alternatives - would it work to go in and say "Mom - if you promise to see a mental health professional for at least 6 months, I'll bail you out - but I think you need help, and you might get some here. Your call, Mom - which way do you want to go?"

May not work, but it may - only you can judge. I just wanted to toss the idea into the mix.

Mostly, therapy doesn't fix anything until the patient wants to fix it - even drugs are short-term, if they want to stop taking them.

Good luck - tough place for you to sit.

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RE: Curious to what others would do. - 12/8/2006 10:18:15 PM

CandleInTheWind

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Joined: 10/20/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Well, my mother got arrested and is sitting in jail about a mile from my present location for spitting on and assualting an officer.
Now, the problem is she does have an untreated mental disorder, which she refuses to get treatment for(actually denies even having a problem)and thus far hasn't directly harmed anyone(entirely by luck), so we couldn't make her get treatment. We asked about it a few years ago and basicly there is little to be done until she does something. I mean she did throw a brick threw a van's window once because they were "trying to get her". Obviously they weren't but they still wouldn't let us commit her, or get her treatment.

Well, obviously she did something now that there is no getting out of, and my view is it is better to leave her in jail and hope she flips out while in there so they will force treatment rather than post her bail. As my sister is calling to inform them of the history. Anyway, I sorta feel bad leaving her in there but I think it's the only way to get her forced to get treatment and face the reality that she's not talking to me by telepathy or anyone else for example, and strangers aren't demons that kinda thing.

Anyway, I'm sticking to what I'm doing just wondering if I'm just being a hard ass about it. I don't think so, but curious to if others would get her out of jail.

Basicly I believe she is schizopheric(spelling), she tries to cover it up, but once you get her going she will talk about everything and become angry if you don't agree with her. Like talking to jesus, and others via telepathy, out of body stuff, demon possesed people, believing she is an angel, writing messages on her roof, Television talking to her directly etc, etc....

Needs if you need someone to absolve you from this situation...okay take a deep breath think happy thoughts and repeat after me...

I love my mother.
I am doing the best thing i can for my mother.
My mother needs help and refuses to accept it.
This is the only way for her to be forced to be a responsible person.
If she is forced to accept treatmen than perhaps she will be the good old mom that i know she can be!!

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RE: Curious to what others would do. - 12/9/2006 11:51:39 AM

NeedToUseYou

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Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

This may not be what you want to hear, but:

Unless your mother is ''Bonny'' from ''Bonny & Clyde'' I'd get her out of jail right away. Jail is a shity place.....and not a place for your mother let alone an older woman.

At least once every couple of months, someone here in one of the rudy-toot jails in Oregon parishes because they are mentally ill, have an episode and then a crapily trained jail staff manhandles and inflicts great bodily harm on them.

I see nothing wrong with a good mental health facility, but leaving your mother to sit in jail is not something I would do.

Good luck

JMHO

- R

I don't believe she's in any more danger in there than outside. We are in a smallish town less than 20000 people. I've not heard of any incidents at the jail for a very long time, around here. Years actually. It would get around pretty quick if something happened, so I'm not particularly thinking her safety is at risk. She's 49, so it's not like she's using a walker either.

I don't think she is bonnie and clyde either, but she is a danger to people, and becoming more so. I mean she's already threw a brick threw a window once, and now she's attacking cops. What more proof that she's a danger should one need. I mean I could wait until she attacks a kid or something because her hallucinations are telling her they're possessed(She does believe some of the kids in the neighborhood are possessed by the way, though currently she works on freeing there souls instead of attacking the demon). Anyway, I'm not going to help her out until she admits she needs help, or is forced into treatment. It does nothing for the long-term situation to help her out of there.

As far as the mental health facility, the problem is I can't make her go, only the court could make her go. So, it's not like that wouldn't of already happened if I had any say in it.

No, thanks for the input but I'm not going that route, because it would lead to no benefit long term, and she's not in danger being there.

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RE: Curious to what others would do. - 12/9/2006 12:03:17 PM

cjenny

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NeedtoUseYou, you are in a most difficult place right now and i wish i had a solution. i think that you are correct in that you have chosen to let her stay in jail for the moment. tough love isn't just tough on those acting out it is tough on the ones that are forced to instill it.
you've my total support [for what that may mean]. having a family member with a mental disease is an incredible hardship that not many know about. i think it is important that you discuss this with your siblings and get a firm plan going, one that you all agree to and will stick to. you will need that, the sibling support and understanding.
~wishing the best for all~
jenny

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RE: Curious to what others would do. - 12/9/2006 12:08:13 PM

NeedToUseYou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CandleInTheWind

Needs if you need someone to absolve you from this situation...okay take a deep breath think happy thoughts and repeat after me...

I love my mother.
I am doing the best thing i can for my mother.
My mother needs help and refuses to accept it.
This is the only way for her to be forced to be a responsible person.
If she is forced to accept treatmen than perhaps she will be the good old mom that i know she can be!!

I'm not looking for anyone to absolve me of the situation. I guess, I was looking for people to point out both sides, and see if it affected my view on the situation.

But it really hasn't, I'm still going to do the same thing, I pretty much figured that, but sometimes you like to run the thought around a bit to see if there are any holes, that I didn't think of. I can understand were others are coming from, but it appears to be from a perspective that doesn't quite get that there is no rational thought going on in her world sometimes. One, can't sit down like you could with most and talk rationally. So, it forces extremes. It's like trying to talk to a 2 year old and have a rational debate, it doesn't happen. It's all emotion and hallucination with her.

No, but absolve implies an obligation, and really my obligation has been played out sometime ago. This more falls in the positive karma category from my perspective and social obligation.

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RE: Curious to what others would do. - 12/9/2006 12:29:09 PM

SusanofO

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Call the Legal Aid Society (look in the phone book Yellow Pages, it's probably listed under some variation of that term). Or, I'd just call a law firm and ask if they do "pro bono" (free) work for people who need it, and explain your situation (most do). Ask a random one to make a recommendation for one that specializes in this type of area. Or, maybe there would be a section under Attorneys that lists how to get lawyer referrals. A lawyer will maybe know what to do, here (or be able to give sound advice anyway).

Also - Is there some hotline in your town that specializes in referring people to agencies that may have advice about how to propel her into treatment and yet maybe do it gently?

I'd look in the phone book under Mental Health or SocialService agencies and ask them how to handle it. My experience as far as working with the basic justice system you speak of is that she may or may not end up getting care, and if she does, it may or may not be "quality" care.

I'd consult a free hot-line. Look in the phone book under all the variations of terminology re:This issue you can think of: Mental Health, Social Service, etc.

OR, I'd just call an ER at a hospital, and ask them what to do? If the ER folks don't know (or won't help), ask to be put through to the Psychiatric portion of the hospital (if you live in a town that has hospitals or ones that large anyway. If not the next largest town or the one you'd go to if you had a physical emergency would be able to give at least a referral here, I'd think).

If one hospital isn't helpful, call a different one. One of them will probably know what to do, I think. You may end up being put on hold and bounced around a few times on the phone - but in the end, someone will be able to help.

If she's old enough to qualify for Medicare, they have to take her as a patient, regardless of whether or not she has insurance. If she is a danger to herself of others, they (theoretically) have to take her as well, regardless of whether or not she has insurance

But - they (a hospital or care facitlity) may not want to do it, or make excuses as to why they "can't" take her (they have to take her if she qualifies as stated above, its the law)- but this is one more reason you may need a lawyer, besides finding out what the law says about this situation and talking w/people who do this kind of thing for a living as far as knowing how to maybe go about getting it done in the most humane and effective way). I am not predicting that will happen here, but I've seen it happen, so am a bit jaded. I know your sister is seeing a lawyer. Good luck w/that. If she isn't satisfied w/what she hears, there are firms that may specialize in this area, or know more about it and I'd look for one of those.

Sounds like a difficult situation. My sympathies and I'll say some prayers she gets the help she needs.I know this can't be easy for you.

I think one of the saddest situations in the world is to be smart enough to actually be able to tell when your brain isn't working the way it should. Contrary to what some people might believe, I think some with "severe" mental illness know they are "losing it", and that there isn't much they can do, in some cases, to make it stop altogether (also maybe people with Huntington's Chorea disease, Alzheimer's etc.) They just want to be "like everybody else" but know they're not, really. But they can get treatment. Sorry to sound so morbid, but this kind of thing has happened in my family, too (although not with an immediate relative). I know it sounds like such a challenge! Hang in there. I know you're just trying to be a good son.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/9/2006 1:04:49 PM >

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RE: Curious to what others would do. - 12/10/2006 4:28:55 AM

LaTigresse

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Need, I don't really have any pearls of wisdom or solutions. What is available to you and your mother will depend alot on where you live. Wether she is okay in jail also depends on where you live. It sounds like a small town situation, everyone knows everyone and kinda takes care of each other............an excellent situation in this case. If you were in a large city I would agree in getting her out.

Now, this is the part that may upset a few that read it but I have never let that stop me before. All this, your mom is your mom stuff, well at some point I have to call BULLSHIT. You have a greater responsibility to yourself and your own wellbeing. IF this situation is beginning to drain you, (I saw a few hints in your words that it is) you need to consider what is best for your own health and well being. Sometimes there is only so much we can do for people. You have mentioned that your mom has refused treatment and that this has been an ongoing situation for many years. In my opinion, bailing her out and therefor effectively allowing her to continue on in denial is only enabling her to avoid admitting there is a problem and seeking treatment. Yes, I know in the depths of mental illness there is not the best mindset to decide before someone points that out to me. However I firmly believe that many people that are suffering, drugs, alchohol, mental illness, need to have their life issues back them into a corner or as some say, hit bottom, before they will admit the problem and get the help they so desperately need.

Before anyone feels the need to say it is easier said than done, I know, trust me I know. Way too much personal experience in this vein.

One thing I do know for a fact. Need, as I said before, your first responsibility is to yourself and your own health. If this situation is draining you to the extreme that I think it may be, you need to be able to allow your mother to be in the care of others right now and it sounds like you are faced with a temporary solution. You need to be healthy and strong for yourself and your family. Perhaps thru this your mother will get the help she needs, or perhaps in some way it will speed her self discovery of that need. It is hard to see someone you love suffering and yet in denial that they are creating their own problems. The bottom line is that, you really can do only so much. You cannot always save someone from themselves. You can save yourself from them and sometimes that really sucks.

In rare cases sometimes the ties end up being cut because it is the only way to survive it yourself.

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RE: Curious to what others would do. - 12/10/2006 4:33:24 AM

SirDiscipliner69

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My heart goes out to you. I am so sorry. Something like this is hard to be objective as you obviously care for your Mom. If it were Me I would treat this in a manner with someone who would be caring yet firm in the approach in helping you both. I say both because you might also need insight in how to gather strength and understand what is going on and the best path to take.

Take time to understand and find someone who will.

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