Hedonism vs Submission (Full Version)

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RedSavageSlave -> Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 7:35:03 AM)

Main Entry: sub·mis·sion
1 a : a legal agreement to submit to the decision of arbitrators b : an act of submitting something (as for consideration or inspection); also : something submitted (as a manuscript)
2 : the condition of being submissive , humble, or compliant
3 : an act of submitting to the authority or control of another

Main Entry: he·do·nism
1 : the doctrine that pleasure or happiness is the sole or chief good in life
2 : a way of life based on or suggesting the principles of hedonism

In a conversation with a friend of mine, the comment was made that I thought I was a hedonist..but I also know deep inside of me that I am a submissive who identifies as a slave within a relationship dynamic..

Based on the definitions listed above..do you think it is possible for a submissive to also be a hedonist?



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Hedonism vs SubmissionMain Entry: sub·mis·sion (12/4/2006 7:40:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedSavageSlave
Based on the definitions listed above..do you think it is possible for a submissive to also be a hedonist?

Absolutely.  We do what makes us fulfilled and happy in who we are.  That's why consent is so necessary. 

Unless you're asking about happiness as in a constant moment-to-moment thing- I don't know anyone who experiences that.

Since, for most subs and slaves, being under the authority of another IS their fulfillment and happiness, it becomes "their chief good in life."

But then again, anyone who chooses to limit who they are based on some books definition will be sorely limited.



MstrssPassion -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 7:41:56 AM)

yes



RiotGirl -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 7:43:35 AM)

no



thetammyjo -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 7:45:19 AM)

I think they can work together depending on whose pleasure and happiness are the focus.

Based on how I use the terms submissive and slave...

A submissive could be equally focused on her and her dominant's happiness and pleasure.

A slave would be more focused on the owner's happiness and pleasure.

Just for kicks, a bottom is more focused on her own happiness and pleasure.



Aine -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 7:45:24 AM)

Absolutely.

Happiness and pleasure being the "sole or cheif good in life"...very much could be connected to many submissives and slaves.

It doesn't distinguish necessarily what kind of happiness and pleasure, so some could apply that to the happiness and pleasure of others very easily.

And then connect that to those who gain the most happiness and pleasure from pleasing others and the circle is complete.



SirMichealspeach -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 7:55:26 AM)

I looked up the word hedonism and found this link..its way too long to post here but for those interested give it a look

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hedonism/

Sir Micheals peach



toservez -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 8:06:14 AM)

I think they very easily go hand in hand. Pursuing a submissive life are not most if not all of us pursuing what makes us the happiest? Maybe our pleasue is one of a general feeling and not one of individual things a lot of the time but submission is still an active choice.



RedSavageSlave -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 8:07:48 AM)

I will need to read more on the motivational hedonism... but it looks like a great site.. THANKS!



akisha -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 8:11:12 AM)

Definately



crouchingtigress -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 8:33:14 AM)

quote:

Based on the definitions listed above..do you think it is possible for a submissive to also be a hedonist?



well if they aren't, i dont think they are doing it right....[;)]



lateralist1 -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 8:45:47 AM)

I think it's possible to be hedonistic and a slave. I suppose it depends of which is the most important to the person.
If a slave is seeking hedonism through submission then he/she is a hedonist not a sub/slave.
However the submission is the real need and the hedonism comes second then yes.
Of course this is the delema that I face as a Domme.
Is a so called sub/slave prepared to allow me to control them because he/she is seeking the hedonism that they hope I will supply or do they really need to please me?
Is there a litmus test for submission ?lol.




ownedgirlie -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 9:30:39 AM)

You can be one without the other.  Submissive does not mean hedonist and hedonist does not mean submissive.  You might be submissive and not hedonistic at all.  You might be a hedonist and not at all submissive.   

Pleasure or happiness being the sole or chief of good in life is quite a statement, though.  Happiness above anything else?  So my own happiness above my Master's?  My child's?  My dying parent?  "Sorry Dad, can't see you in the hospital today because that would not make me happy."

No, I do not relate to being hedonistic.  Even in a bigger scope, I am more likely to put myself last and another's pleasure/happiness/contentment/comfortability first.  I'll go out of my way for others, even if makes my life burdensome (to a degree).



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 12:36:14 PM)

Of course. In the simplest form, one involves making others happy, the other involves making yourself happy. You're allowed to do both.

ownedgirlie has a point, though. Just as being one doesn't exclude being the other, being one doesn't make you the other, either. Think of them as overlapping circles, like the MasterCard symbol. You can be one or the other or both. :-)

Master Fire



speednut -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 2:10:12 PM)

Absolutely, especially if your submission is of a sexual nature.



spankmepink11 -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 4:16:03 PM)

I think the two go together quite nicely



mp072004 -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 6:21:02 PM)

Short version:
Presumably, a person who is hedonistic and submissive at the same time, as defined in the OP, would find submitting to the authority of another the most effective way to achieve greatest happiness or pleasure.

Long version:
People acting rationally do things because those things help them realize their chief or greatest good--whatever they define as most important to the best life. People who habitually submit--submissives--do so because habitually submitting gets them closer to what they define as most important to having the best life. (This assumes that submissives act rationally. While I've known individual submissives to act irrationally, I have no evidence to conclude that the whole class is irrational.) If a person defines the greatest pleasure as the greatest good, and a person habitually cedes authority (submits), then that person must believe that submitting helps him or her have the greatest pleasure and thus, the best life.

Monica



KnightofMists -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 6:46:47 PM)

Statement:  She is an Hedonistic Submissive.

Hedonistic... devoted to pleasure.

submissive... submits to the authority of another.

mmmmmm seems like a Hedonistic Submissive is devoted to the pleasure of the one she submits too.



roughleather -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 8:24:26 PM)

We need a separate discussion section for nomenclature.



julietsierra -> RE: Hedonism vs Submission (12/4/2006 10:26:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Based on how I use the terms submissive and slave...

A submissive could be equally focused on her and her dominant's happiness and pleasure.

A slave would be more focused on the owner's happiness and pleasure.

Just for kicks, a bottom is more focused on her own happiness and pleasure.


I always chuckle when I read about how slaves are always oh-so focused on someone else's pleasure. Have someone who identifies as a slave be unhappy - very very unhappy - and watch how long the relationship in which the slave IS a slave lasts.

We do this because focusing on someone else's pleasure gives us pleasure for goodness sake! I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't do it because making sure someone else is happy makes me miserable!!

Does that make us hedonistic?

Well, I'd say yes, because most of us have tried living a vanilla life - surely a bit easier in terms of social context and social acceptability, but found this was not something that made us happy. We are pursuing what we do because our happiness is a chief good in our lives.

I think what's interesting is that so many feel they have to justify their desire for happiness. Slave or no slave, my happiness is pretty far up there in terms of what I want for myself. I can accept that there will be times I'm not, but overall, my happiness, slave or not, is paramount. Cripe! I AM a slave because I pursue happiness. Slavery makes me happy, and I have absolutely no idea why some people need to put it aside, as if what we do is a sacrifice. I don't think slavehood equals martyrdom by any stretch of the imagination.

Frankly, according to the definition of hedonism, an entire country was established on that basis. "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" - inalienable rights, chief goods in life - that's hedonism folks.

A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet.

juliet



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