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Nother Example - 12/3/2006 3:28:18 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Here's another example of our country's state of affairs.  I'm starting to realize i am beyond cynical and jaded when it comes to the way the system "Really" works.  I guess thats why the political debates hold no interest for me.  To me its the same thing over and over "our country is fucking us over"  My reponse is always.. "whats new?"  Tonight though, i was able to hear about how one mother is taking action back and that i much enjoyed.

Its a simple thing, not top level thing, yet still just another example of our country.  Stopped by a friends house for a moment and she was telling me of the troubles she was having with the local elementry school.  Her son was "charged" with writing "cuss" words in another childs notebook.  Intimidated for 3 hours.  Pushed to confess.  School even went so far as to bring a COP into it.  An 8 year old boy treated like a criminal.  After about 2 hours they told the boy that if he "confessed" he would only be suspended for a day, if he didnt confess he'd be suspended for a year.  So with the principal, school officials and a cop hounding him to confess - he did.  THEN they called his mother. 

Comes down to it - his mother knows he didnt do it.  Got a hand writing expert to prove he didnt do it and is in the process of having ANOTHER handwriting expert agree with the first hand writing expert.  After the first expert said "its not his writing" she showed the school - asked for the charge to be taken off of his permament record and to have an apology given to her son.  Guess what?  Of course they cant do any of that.  He confessed.  They refused and even went so far as insulting her. 

I'm absolutetly proud of her as she has 2 lawyers now and a 3rd one wanting to jump into the picture.  They're all waiting for the other handwriting expert to get back to them. 

One of the reasons my friend is livid is because she has raised her son to trust school officials, cops, you know.  To go to them if you need help.  She's livid because now, her 8 year old hasnt a clue who to trust anymore. 

Just another example on how our government and world works.  Just because they have an official placement, have sworn an oath, or should be trustable.. bah.  I had a hard time commiserating with my friend about the trust issue.  I for one have never taught my daughter to trust any of these people.  Cops can be pedaphiles too.  Teachers as well.  Adults lie.  Cops lie.  Doctors lie.  Everyone wants the buck. 

When you can sit down and truely really, with out prejudice say "i do not trust the president of the US to do the right thing" is the day the whole system falls apart.  If you cant trust the Leader why would you trust anyone in his chain of command.  Even with out our president being who he is, the whole system is fucked.  Its been corrupt for along time.  Cops are corrupt, teachers are corrupt, doctors are corrupt - hell human beings are corrupt.  It really is all about money and not doing the right thing.  Nobody has cared about doing the "right thing" for as long as i can remember. 

Which i suppose is my whole issue with politics.  Since they are all so corrupt and all about money - why would i expect anything more?  Nothing they do is suprising to me and until i hear the worlds "revolution" theres not much you can really do to combat such wide scale corruption.  (this being on larger scale political issues)  Eventually the fall of Rome will happen again.  Until that day, i aim to protect myself and my family from the corruption and to keep out of it.  Fighting the system is a losing battle.  Being "upset" with the system is wasted energy
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RE: Nother Example - 12/3/2006 5:43:01 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Wow, intense story.

Most societies are built and sustained on corruption..been that way for a very very long time.

Everything is upside down and inside out on this planet...

History tells us that societies rise and fall, agree with that too.

Ugh!

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/3/2006 5:47:51 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		"Permanent Record?"
You mean they really do have Permanent Records?
I thought they were just saying that to get over on us!
So all my swearing, looking up girls dresses, and all the other stuff I did in elementary school back in the 1950's can be looked up by anyone?

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/3/2006 8:16:56 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		some one FINALLY said something.... lol...... thanks.  I dunno bout the record.. seems this school does... makes me iffy about having my daughter go to it.  Gave her the talk about if something "happens" and she gets in trouble at school.. to where she goes to the Principal's office....... to keep her mouth SHUT and make them call me.  And to not worry of course.  What i think was majorly wrong was they like interrogated this kid before they even called his mom. 

i think they are built on good intentions and then fall on corruption..... unfortunetly human nature...... i dont think we'll ever have a society built on honor, or honesty.. or anything that would lead me to respect, trust, or have any faith in.

So basically society is crap - and i guess i expect it to be crap and i dont expect anything good from it.  Nothing suprises me with this government.. nor really upsets me.  Its FUCKED.  Well - i lie.. if some one posted something "good" and "postive" about the government in this forum.. i'd be damn suprised.  (and if what they said was true.. i'd be even more suprised)





< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 12/3/2006 8:19:08 PM >

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 3:39:24 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		Nice!  I agree, like, 10000000000%.  Your story is a disturbing one, thats for sure.  And, I think you're absolutely right that "fighting the system" does no good. I would go one step further, even.  Fighting the system seems to help that very system by creating a bond of rejection and encouraging discontents to pay attention and remain emotionally invested in the status quo. 

As far as I can see, there's a point in which any system gets so bad that the only thing to do is walk away.  I don't see why I should waste my time and energy fighting to participate in organizaions and work with power structures designed to exclude most people and relegate their voices to the margins.

Anyway, good show. :)



(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 3:43:56 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Same type of thing happened to my son...course he was a bit older...10 or so I think.  He refused to say anything until they called me.  Good for him.  Talk about Livid!  OMG!  I held a rant that I think the entire block heard.  Now, my son is no angel (still isn't), but this happened to be something he hadn't done and was being accused, tried and convicted based on some of his past misbehavior.

It never happened again.

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 6:21:04 AM   
sophia37


Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		This school story sounds very extreme. I dont believe we have the full picture here. So I withhold judgement.

I can say however that none of us wish to become rebels within the system. We are forced into it when wronged. So never say never, that you wont get involved. Sometimes you have no choice.

The system is supposed to work for us, and we should demand that it does. We are entitled to good service. So never look at it as FIGHTING. Its not fighting. It's being an informed consumer and demanding your rights. If you keep that in mind you can pretty much maintain your balance within it. Keeping emotions out of it is very hard.

(in reply to bandit25)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 6:32:53 AM   
Furr


Posts: 36
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		As a retired defense attorney, I can tell you, my clients lied, the cops lied, the prosecutors don't lie but put forward perjured evidence.  The problem is that everyone is out for themselves and the morality of their conduct gets blown away.

There was one reference to the President.  He's an oil man as is his family.  I believe he is (was?) attempting to get Iraq's oil for the U.S.  But the cost in honor, dollars and blood is too high and he should have known it.  And what gripes Me is that the war is costing us tens of billions, so the oil companies can make billions by charging us again for what we already paid for in dollars and blood.

(in reply to sophia37)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 7:16:43 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I don't think that many of us realize just how vulnerable our children are when they are in the care of schools. Here is a story from my own personal experience.

My youngest son was always a good kid who never really gave me or anyone else much trouble. I used to get comments from people on a regular basis about how he was always so respectful and well mannered. He was very outgoing and was a kid who you could look at and see that he was enjoying his teen years...he was having fun.

One day when he was about 16 he didn't get off the bus from school. I waited a bit thinking he would be arriving shortly with a friend. Time went on and it was approaching 5 o'clock....he normally got out at 2:30....so I called the school. As it turns out he was there. He was being detained and interviewed by the police and had been since school let out. Well I was livid. I went flying to the school. It was too late....I had always taught my son to be honest and this day proved no different....and his honesty was now a matter of record that would be held against him.

What had occurred was this. He had been walking down the hall with a girl. Another boy (who had a reputation as being trouble) came up behind her and grabbed her rear end. She turned around and swatted him. The boy then punched her and sent her flying into the lockers where she split her head open.

My son reacted and turned around and decked the guy. Now this kid outweighed my son by about 75 lbs and my son had never to that day been involved in a physical altercation with anyone. The guy went down and my son walked over to him and grabbed him by his hair and said "You don't hit women....apologize to her". Well.....apparently grabbing his hair while he was down was a more serious crime then decking him. My son now faced charges for aggravated assault.

My son was taken to the office and grilled by the principal who asked him what had happened. My son told the story and admitted that he had indeed done what he did. The principal then called the police. Again, my son admitted his "guilt" in the situation.

When I got to the school I lambasted the principal for not calling me and allowing a police officer to interrogate my son without my knowledge or legal counsel. Turns out though....they have every RIGHT to do so! I walked into the room and declared to the officer that the interview was over and took my son and left. The principal stopped me to tell me that by taking him away "I was condoning the incident". I responded...."My son has never in his life been involved in a physical fight....if standing up to defend a girl who had just been decked by a guy seemed like the right reason for him to get involved....then I DO condone what happened and I applaud him for having the guts to do it!".

My son was suspended from school for two weeks and a court date was set. We went into court and as we sat there in the lobby area waiting to be seen, the other boy came in. I assumed he was there for the case....nope....he was there for unrelated charges of drugs, sexual assault and arson. When it was our turn to go in the prosecutor sat down and opened the file and began to read the facts of the case. He looked at my son and said "Is this really about you coming to the defense of a girl who was struck and injured by another boy?" My son assured him it was. He asked about my son's grades, his school records...any prior troubles he might have been involved in. He turned to me and said...."I am sorry to have wasted your time...but this case should never have made it to my desk. I am not about to "tag" your son with a record for this".

I learned alot in that experience and told my son that should he ever be in a situation again in his life that is similar....to not say one single word until he has proper legal counsel. It's a pretty sad world when you have to tell your children that honesty is important...and then have to confuse that issue for them by teaching them to keep their mouth shut.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 8:36:17 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		The problem with how your son has been treated is that it leads you and him to believe things like this, "Cops are corrupt, teachers are corrupt, doctors are corrupt - hell human beings are corrupt.  It really is all about money and not doing the right thing.  Nobody has cared about doing the "right thing" for as long as i can remember."
Not all cops are corrupt, but a few bent ones mean we treat them all as if they were...........ditto teachers and doctors. Despite being an aethist, my answer is to have faith, at least in human nature.......most teachers, coppers and doctors want to do the right thing, they try to do the right thing.  When we meet these corrupt and silly jobsworths we have to remember they're in the minority.......otherwise they win.

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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 8:42:57 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		What a great story Erin.  I really really love the end where the DA did the right thing.  It is nice to hear that there are good people in this world  Good for you AND your son.  I applaud him for standing up for a girl and you for standing up for your son.  

Sometimes it seems that too many parents "trust" the system and let it bulldoze over their kids. 

When it comes to my daughter, i have been teaching her something different then most people teach their kids.  I do not teach her to trust anyone.  i dont care what their job is.  I tell her in "worst case scenarios" that police are the "best" to go to out of everyone.  Except, one day she showed me different. 

Disney world lost my daughter about a year ago.  During the parade where i let her sit in the "kid" section for the parade (where i was not allowed to sit).  I worried and spoke to the attendent.. spoke to my daughter and placed myself no less then 10 feet away.. most likely 5 feet.  I was on the other side of a garbage can.  Closest as i could get.  The attendent assured me she would "help my daughter find me when the parade was over"  i notified my daughter and the attendent of my excat spot.  The parade ended and i went to get my daughter.  i looked at all the kids and she was no where.  I looked at the attendent and the only words i could get out was "my kid?"  i said that about 5 times and the dumb ass looked at me stupid.  Quick thinker i am, i started asking the kids.  Little girl said "she went to find you before the parade started"  i think my heart sank.  I started barking orders at the attendent who continued to look at me stupid.  At the end of my orders i asked her why she was still standing there.. and then i took off. 

In less then 5 minutes i ran smack into my daughter.  (thank god)  My daughter at the age of 4 had the intelligence to find a mother who was holding a little girls hand.  My daughter told me she knew the lady was okay because she had a little girl and because she took my daughters hand and squeezed it.  Gently i assume as in re assurance.  The lady found my daughter walking around calling for "mommy".. and took her under her wing and had been taking her back to where my daughter started off from. 

i thank the stars that my daughter can spot a "kind" person and know it when she sees it.
i thank the stars that my daughter found a mother. 

So out of everyone out there to go to and to trust when things arise, i think my daughter is right.  Find a mommy.  Not the cops, or the priests, or teachers, or the school district.. not a doctor.. but a mommy.  i think that is one group with the  "least" bad in it.

its a sad world we live in - when we can not even feel safe saying "you can go to the cops sweetie if something bad happens" 

::sigh:: and i say screw it protect yourself and those that belong to you - its the only way to survive. 

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 8:54:19 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Not my son actually, a friends son.  They system and the majority of the people involved in it ARE corrupt.  My daughter will be smart enough to realise this too.  Nothing is 100%.  The unfortunate part of the percentage that  is corrupt is the simple fact that those people hold such power as to be able to destroy a persons life.    Too many of them are corrupt to trust any of them.  You never know which flavor you're going to get..... 

i was raised to trust.  Yet after an incident outside my house and then sitting in court watching 2 police officers lie through their teeth........ and then serving 6 months in jail watching my life fall apart. 

After hearing cops say to me "we're going to send her home with her mother because we dont want to deal with it" about a girl i was protecting from her crack head mother who was physically violent and threatened the girls life...... 

after 2 cops who would do nothing about a minor in adult situations with drugs all over......

after beating a charge i was plainly guilty of - simply because my parents backed me with their money....

and being commited of a crime when i did nothing wrong because my parents didnt back me with money.... 

When i look at that.. and i then i look at the politics.. and the news.. and i look at our government and our president........ and i look at how things are going in our country..... 

have faith in what?



(in reply to philosophy)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 9:03:13 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		"have faith in what?"

.....have faith that it doesn't have to be like this.......that things change and not always for the worse.  Humans are capable of atrocity, but we are also capable of incredible acts of altruism and wisdom. Once we let the minority of utter bastards out there change our perceptions they have, essentially, bred another utter bastard.
i have faith in human nature, that ultimately we can live up to our ideals. The alternative is to live down to our fears, which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 11:37:55 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		you will eventually be greatly disapointed. 

My father once told me "when you are young - you are idealistic.  When you mature - you become realistic"  I used to want to save the world - lol - and then i grew up. 

The one nice thing about the human race is while there is corrupt people running plenty and amok there are also very good people running around.  I have faith in myself and those i keep close. 

Trusting the human race is like having unprotected sex.

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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 12:04:34 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl
you will eventually be greatly disapointed. 
My father once told me "when you are young - you are idealistic.  When you mature - you become realistic"  I used to want to save the world - lol - and then i grew up. 
The one nice thing about the human race is while there is corrupt people running plenty and amok there are also very good people running around.  I have faith in myself and those i keep close. 
Trusting the human race is like having unprotected sex.


....ah, but what if you're wrong?

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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 12:18:57 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Furr

As a retired defense attorney, I can tell you, my clients lied, the cops lied, the prosecutors don't lie but put forward perjured evidence.  The problem is that everyone is out for themselves and the morality of their conduct gets blown away.

There was one reference to the President.  He's an oil man as is his family.  I believe he is (was?) attempting to get Iraq's oil for the U.S.  But the cost in honor, dollars and blood is too high and he should have known it.  And what gripes Me is that the war is costing us tens of billions, so the oil companies can make billions by charging us again for what we already paid for in dollars and blood.


Furr, well said!
Don't feel like The Lone Ranger!
It's the same with our having 37,000 troops guarding S. Korea's border but not our own with Mexico.
I don't know about you but I don't have any "interests" in S. Korea.
Shouldn't Exxon and others be hiring their own security forces instead of using ours gratus?

(in reply to Furr)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 1:15:40 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		Yes, there really is such a thing as a permanent record.  Every student has one.  I do not know how far back that system dates though.

Good for her for fighting the system, for certain, but the system will only fight back, and harder.  They are never wrong you know.    If she is that concerned over something that is relatively insignificant in the big picture, she can count on a very long, very expensive battle that in the end might not result in anything being accomplished.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 2:15:16 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
....ah, but what if you're wrong?


lol then i'm wrong?  Before i'd admit that, i'd need to see the proof that i am wrong. 


i still believe ......... trusting the human race is like having unprotected sex.

you never know what you'll get.  Nothing, stds, hiv, pregnancy, curable disease uncurable disease.... just never know....

(in reply to philosophy)
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RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 3:58:29 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Quite.
 
The USA and most other "civilized" countries are no longer Christian nations. During the past centuries they have been corrupted and are now predominantly dedicated to Satan. These societies ultimately are self-destructive.

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Nother Example - 12/4/2006 4:14:30 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Ha Rule!  Even religion is corrupted.  Things were corrupted when catholics ran the government.  We all know what happened in Rome right?  Fall of the Roman empire?  Right right. 

Religion or not - the human race is corrupted.  lol 

And hey at least with them refusing to allow God into things - God is no longer being misrepresented.  He hasnt had nothing to do with all of this crap and he never has.  It was a terrible thing to say "Give us your money and God will love you"    The nations were never truely "christian" nations and by saying they were.. it was a misrepresentation of all good and holy.  Talk about the false advertisment of God. 

So that is atleast ONE good thing. 

(in reply to Rule)
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