Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (Full Version)

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Gauge -> Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 5:01:21 PM)

I suffer from major depression and anxiety disorder with panic attacks. The depression I have had most of my life. The anxiety and panic attacks have only really surfaced almost seven years ago and they really took off when I quit drinking over six years ago.

What I would like to discuss with this thread is if any other dominant male or female has the same mental illness issues and how that affects your role as a dominant. You see, from what I have read from quite a number of submissives (I am using gender neutral dominant and submissive) is that they want a strong dominant and pretty much without traits like a mental condition. This is confusing for someone like me because I really have little doubt about my dominance but I do question my perceived stability as a dominant personality because of the depression and anxiety.

I mean, I do have problems and issues and various other things that I would rather not trot out in courtship of a submissive but these things are a part of me and unfortunately I must live with them and I will not hide this from someone... they will find out anyway. I am in treatment for my mental issues and I do take medication for it, but the medication merely keeps me sort of level, it does not prevent everything.

So... I have a few questions:

To the submissives:

Does an issue like mental illness factor in to your perception of a dominant?

If so, how does it affect your perception?

To the dominants:

If you do suffer from mental issues, does it make you feel any different about your ability as a dominant?

How have you learned to cope with these issues?


I am sure that I will come up with many more questions as we go, but I think this will start things off.



slavejali -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 5:15:10 PM)

quote:

To the submissives:

Does an issue like mental illness factor in to your perception of a dominant?

If so, how does it affect your perception?

 
This is a difficult topic, as I feel my view is offensive, but its how I feel if I was totally honest.
 
Because of the depth of submision I enjoy, I wouldn't submit (or be even able to) to a dominant with mental health issues. Depression isn't a nice thing to be around, I can only take it in small doses even from those around me i.e at work, I wouldn't want to have to wake up to it in the mornings, not to mention it would be incredibly difficult to trust someone as my dominant and Master who didn't have a handle on themselves.



sophia37 -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 5:26:01 PM)

Oh boy. Please forgive me. But Im married to a dominant with mental health issues. I admit that it is my nature to please. But what has happened, due to the health issues is that over the years, I have had to assume all the roles that my "dominant" claimed he could do. I am now the dominant by default, while he has become submissive in most ways. Yet his belief is that he is the dominent. It is the most trying, difficult relaitonship that anyone could imagine. You do, yet you are not allowed to do.

I would strongly suggest to any submissive to steer clear of a person with your issues. The good news for you Gauge is, no one listens to me! So a Younger submissive than I, might feel she can take on all the rolls needed to suport your effort. So take heart. I doubt your issues will completely put you on the sidelines.



MmakeMme -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 5:33:58 PM)

My former Dom had emotional issues and was (is - he still is, regardless that He is no longer my Dom) recovering from alcoholism. The up side was that He was able to talk to me gently and get me to see my own issues, which lead to therapy and recovery and a whole new positive life for me.

We did not see each other when He was in a depression (we are both married) but I longed to be there for him when he was down. Did His issues affect His Dominance or my respect for His position? Not at all. Would His depressions? No way. I would have loved to have served Him, and I would have felt more useful to Him, and I know He would have still been possessed of His command because I was His sub. I loved and respected Him as a man and as a Dom.



behindmirrors -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 5:35:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

To the submissives:

Does an issue like mental illness factor in to your perception of a dominant?

If so, how does it affect your perception?


I'll just start this off by saying that both myself and my Dom have bipolar disorder. Neither of us controls it with medication, though we have both tried it and have been encouraged to by doctors over our lifetimes, neither of us could tolerate the side effects and decided (independently, before we even met) that there were better ways to work with the condition. This has been successful for us, though I am not advocating it in all cases, nor in any- this is just the experience I have had.

Now, to answer your questions:

Regarding mental illness and my perception of a Dominant, I would say this is a very grey area. I cannot judge a person on having a mental illness, because I have one and would equally have to judge myself for it. My biggest indication is how the person, Dominant, submissive, or of any persuasion or type, handles it. Do you take care of yourself in this regard? Have you been able to ask for help when you need it? If you are on medication, do you take it regularly and see a doctor regularly? If not, do you have a strategy for your illness- and a contigency plan if something goes wrong? Do you choose to play victim to your illness, and use it as a perpetual excuse, or do you strive to make your life as good as possible with your condition and seek to minimize any limitations it gives you? These are the most important things to me- not if an illness is present. The way a person handles it speaks much more than a diagnosis does, in my perceptions.
As a submissive and as a part of a relationship with another in general, I would like to know about it. I would like to know what I can do to help, and what the common triggers the person has for things like panic attacks, flashbacks, relapses, manic/depressive states, etc. I would want to know first and foremost that there are answers to the questions I listed above.
Basically, the diagnosis means a whole lot less to me, personally, than the way a person works with it does- and that's the place where my perceptions are going to be effected. People are much more than a single aspect of themselves, and so I don't limit anyone based on that one thing- I look at all they give me to see.

Hope this helps, and take care-
behindmirrors.



juliaoceania -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 5:51:13 PM)

I respect your candor greatly and your honesty in dealing with your issues.

The answer for this submissive is that it depends on the nature of the depression and panic attacks or other mental health issues as to how I would perceive a dominant that had them. Many high powered famous people have suffered from mental health issues. I have had a bout with depression and anxiety and I know the effort it takes to remain well.

I think that some may see mental health problems as a "weakness", but that is because most people are ignorant of physiology, illnesses, and well being in general. There is still some belief that a person "should just be better" and they are some how flawed for their condition. It takes someone with character to struggle with mental health issues and still somehow function in life while maintaining positive relationships with those around them, and many people who suffer from depression are extremely functional and do not suck the energy out of a room.

Eleanor Roosevelt suffered from chronic depression most of her life, and yet look at what she accomplished and how positive she was despite years of facing her demons head on. There are many other creative, brilliant, wonderful people that have suffered from this disease at one time or another. 

The answer for me is this, I would definitely be willing to accomodate someone I loved that had ANY illness. A person can have a depression strike them at any age, and while I certainly do not seek sick people intentionally, I would not turn my back on someone because they were ill if I love them. D/s to me is a love-style and a lifeway... I am not about to dump someone because their brain chemistry is a little off, and I am certain whomever I would choose would fight depression with honor, integrity, and character because I tend to be attracted to people that keep on keeping on, no matter what.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 5:53:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

To the dominants:

If you do suffer from mental issues, does it make you feel any different about your ability as a dominant?

I'm bi-polar. Right now, I'm stable and have been for years. So, I feel pretty confident in myself and such. But, I remember way back when I did spiral into a depressive state that persisted (this is what lead to my proper diagnosis), I kept wondering why in the hell my submissive stayed with me. he was extremely supportive. This was probably due to the fact that he also had some mental illness that I often supported him through.

Because I'm stable, and, more importantly, I'm commited to remaining stable, I don't think it affects my ability to be a Master all that much. Rather, I think it can enhance it because I'm aware that people can fall into holes...and I can remember what it's like to be at the bottom of one of those holes.

I have had subs/slaves say no when they learned about my mental illness. It's their choice and I don't spend a lot of time dwelling on it. If someone doesn't understand, then they're not a match for me.

quote:

How have you learned to cope with these issues?


What issues? This is just another facet of my live and I cope with it using the same techniques that I use for everyday life. I learned these techniques from the therapist and group therapy I had a few years ago.

Master Fire



juliaoceania -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 5:55:14 PM)

quote:

Because of the depth of submision I enjoy, I wouldn't submit (or be even able to) to a dominant with mental health issues. Depression isn't a nice thing to be around, I can only take it in small doses even from those around me i.e at work, I wouldn't want to have to wake up to it in the mornings, not to mention it would be incredibly difficult to trust someone as my dominant and Master who didn't have a handle on themselves.

 
My question is this, would you turn your back on your master if he became depressed? Depression is an illness, would you leave your master because he was not pleasant to be around even though he was seeking help with adjusting his brain chemistry? It is like any other illness after all.




BDSM05478 -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 6:10:03 PM)

Very well said behindmirrors. I too deal with bi-polar (10yrs) anxiety and panic disorder (last 6months). These issues, like physical illness and disability, affect everyone differently, yet millons live normal, health, constructive lives. Whether it is Nilla or BDSM really doesn't influence the possible capabilities to function with in a relationship. My Daddy also suffers from anxiety and panic disorders, at times so sever He was not even able to leave His own home (That was years before I met Him) His disorder has been a blessing for me and has created another thing we can identify with each other. So to get back to you post lol......... Yes it does make a difference from a submissive point of view, if he couldn't understand the issues I battle everyday, I might not have been as eager to get involved with him. Does my illness affect my ablity to dominat someone, yes sometimes I really am just not in the mood to give what is needed from me but that sentiment could be said by anyone as I feel that We all go through slumps where just need to focus on ourselves, for whatever reason.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 6:11:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Because of the depth of submision I enjoy, I wouldn't submit (or be even able to) to a dominant with mental health issues. Depression isn't a nice thing to be around, I can only take it in small doses even from those around me i.e at work, I wouldn't want to have to wake up to it in the mornings, not to mention it would be incredibly difficult to trust someone as my dominant and Master who didn't have a handle on themselves.

 
My question is this, would you turn your back on your master if he became depressed? Depression is an illness, would you leave your master because he was not pleasant to be around even though he was seeking help with adjusting his brain chemistry? It is like any other illness after all.




Interesting question, Julia.  In my case no, I do not have the power to leave my Master.  But my former husband suffered from depression, anxiety and I believe dillusion.  Because he would not get it treated, I paid the price and the relationship became extremely unhealthy for me, so I left it after too many years of suffering its abuse.  That was a vanilla relationship, however. 

I have mentioned in several of my posts on CM that to me (please note, this is my reality and not imposed on others), my slavery to my Master is a much more intimate, involved and trust-reliant relationship than any vanilla relationship I did, would or could have.  In my slavery, I trust my Master with all of me - he has molded my thoughts.  He has shaped who I am.  If he demonstrated the unpredictability I witnessed in my ex husband, I could not trust him explicitely as I do now, and therefore our dynamic would not work as it currently does.



juliaoceania -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 6:24:14 PM)

Well not everyone with depression and anxiety is abusive, unpredictible, moody, or outwardly sick. All too often people who are suicidal fly under the radar and kill themselves and no one even was aware they were suffering at all. Far more people are depressed then get diagnosed too.

That is why in my first post on this thread I pointed out that it would depend on how they handled themselves during their depression.

I have a family member that suffered real depression once in her 50s because she suffered from chronic back pain that left her disabled and unable to work. Her brain chemistry changed due to dealing with pain and anxiety over losing her job and all the esteem issues of being unable to do the things she had always done. I dated someone else that went through back surgery and he also had a depression due to the loss of his mobility associated with his injury. In both cases these people were able to get better after a period of time. People get down in life sometimes, they have things happen. I can imagine the more dominant the person, the more likely they might be more susceptible to forms of depression due to lack of work, other illnesses, and aging. It is hard for people used to being in control to suddenly not be in control.... Loss of control is a major trigger for depression, the more one values this, the harder the loss of it would hit a person.

Depression affects ones emotional states, but it is not one's emotions that defines them, it is what they decide to do about that which does. I am proud of myself, and others I know that have battled depression and other mental health issues and gotten better. It takes real effort to eat right, exercise, not allow yourself to go to bed because you feel like you have been hit by a truck all the time. It takes determination to live with depression and a lot of people will give up. It takes someone strong to overcome it.



slavejali -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 6:28:24 PM)

quote:

My question is this, would you turn your back on your master if he became depressed? Depression is an illness, would you leave your master because he was not pleasant to be around even though he was seeking help with adjusting his brain chemistry? It is like any other illness after all.

 
Ok, I have to theorise here, cause really, I wouldn't enter a relationship where those issues were prevalent.
 
Everyone has down days, sure..but if it was a repetitive cycle, in all honesty, yes...and I dont see it like any other illness, it effects the mental and emotional dynamics of the relationship itself and would effect the D/s dynamic greatly. I have stood the test of time with an "ill" partner, lived through it experienced it and wouldn't regret one single day of serving him or being with him or loving him....but like someone else mentioned, in regards to mental illness, its a whole different scenario to me, I would become the dominant persona on an emotional, mental and spiritual level in the relationship...and we couldn't have that *grin*



juliaoceania -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 6:35:10 PM)

Well we just differ, my relationship is about more than that to me, and I would not leave someone I had committed to unless they were endangering me. I want someone to grow old with, spend my life with, and while I value the D/s aspects of what we are together I also know that this dynamic may change with time and circumstance.

I have taken care of a sick person until he died, he was not my mate, but he was a part of my family. He was like a child at the end. I would not leave my significant other if he had a stroke, alzheimers, or any other disease. I say that from a place of knowing, because  I know what it is to shower someone, clothe them, change their diaper, wheel them in a wheel chair, clean up the floor after they peed on it. But that is what one does for those they love, my relationship is about love. Now if I was being abused mentally and physically that is a different issue, but I could not leave someone while they were down... almost everyone gets down at some point....



ownedgirlie -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 6:35:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Well not everyone with depression and anxiety is abusive, unpredictible, moody, or outwardly sick. All too often people who are suicidal fly under the radar and kill themselves and no one even was aware they were suffering at all. Far more people are depressed then get diagnosed too.


I absolutely agree with you and did not mean to give the impression that I lumped everyone with depression in the same category.  Depression runs in my family, as does a history of suicide.  I am very familiar.

quote:


That is why in my first post on this thread I pointed out that it would depend on how they handled themselves during their depression.


I agree here as well.  Perhaps I am still gun-shy after experiencing what I did with one who handled (and still handles) himself horribly.  I am still healing from those wounds.

quote:


It is hard for people used to being in control to suddenly not be in control.... Loss of control is a major trigger for depression, the more one values this, the harder the loss of it would hit a person.


Again we agree.  I saw this clearly when my grandmother was aging, and even more clearly as my father - an Annapolis grad and top clearance government agent - dealt with his terminal cancer.  From living a life in mental/informational seclusion to having to tell us each time he went to the bathroom, etc., was quite a leap.  During one of his last hospital stays I had to lovingly tell him, "Your life is not your own anymore, Dad.  You no longer have your privacy, and while it is really screwed up to have to tell you that, the only way we can take care of you is to know these things."  Very difficult indeed.

quote:


Depression affects ones emotional states, but it is not one's emotions that defines them, it is what they decide to do about that which does. I am proud of myself, and others I know that have battled depression and other mental health issues and gotten better. It takes real effort to eat right, exercise, not allow yourself to go to bed because you feel like you have been hit by a truck all the time. It takes determination to live with depression and a lot of people will give up. It takes someone strong to overcome it.


We're agreeing all over the place, then.  I am one who suffered from suicidally severe depression.  I fought like hell to overcome it, and almost did not.  But while suffering from it, I would not have been in any shape to take care of anyone else, as I could not even take care of myself.  I know all too well what it is to live in a fog you can not see through, to feel so much pain you go numb, to want to choose death over life, to simply stop caring.  I feel for others who go through that.  I just can't give myself to someone who is...cold as that may sound.

Editing to clarify something:  I would not enter into a relationship with someone like that - I just couldn't.  I am currently IN a relationship, however, which I will not leave, no matter the circumstance.  However I believe if Master ever became so severely depressed that he could not dominate me as he wants and as he knows I need, he would make other provisions or considerations for me.



juliaoceania -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 6:40:17 PM)

quote:

We're agreeing all over the place, then.  I am one who suffered from suicidally severe depression.  I fought like hell to overcome it, and almost did not.  But while suffering from it, I would not have been in any shape to take care of anyone else, as I could not even take care of myself.  I know all too well what it is to live in a fog you can not see through, to feel so much pain you go numb, to want to choose death over life, to simply stop caring.  I feel for others who go through that.  I just can't give myself to someone who is...cold as that may sound


It is how you feel, no one should apologize about that!

I am a single mom, I went through a depression that left me less than a perfect mom. At the worst of it I forced myself out of bed and out every morning to walk and run. At the worst of it I thought it would be just easier to step in front of a car while I was walking instead of facing the difficulty of going through another day... it was my son that saved me, I was responsible for him and to him. One can still be a responsible person and be depressed is my point.



slavejali -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 7:03:02 PM)

quote:

Well we just differ, my relationship is about more than that to me, and I would not leave someone I had committed to unless they were endangering me. I want someone to grow old with, spend my life with, and while I value the D/s aspects of what we are together I also know that this dynamic may change with time and circumstance............, my relationship is about love.


The D/s dynamics are what makes it a relationship to me, its the fabric of the relationship. Love to me is pure and simple and doesn't need a relationship to flow through your heart, I could sit in a cave and still feel love/d..yet to enter a relationship and for it to be a relationship, I have to be able to "relate". (Hope that made sense).



demistress -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 7:14:10 PM)

Another Bi-Polar Dominant here.  As usual, I find most of what MasterFireMa'am has said resonates within me.  I am a self-controlled and long term stable person.  Like others have mentioned, I have been on medications, and found the side effects to be intolerable, and worse than the "disease".  I am lucky, I am on a fairly regular 60 day, low amplitude cycle (think a sine wave).  I know when my depressions are coming, and can warn those in my life, I have also been effectively regulating myself with caffeine and alcohol.  I do not recommend this for others, but it works for me.  I am lucky not to be an addictive personality, and to be one of extreme self control.  I only drink at the peaks of my mania, and I raise my caffeine levels at the depths of my depression, in general, this keeps me pretty well balanced.  I find that my mood swings related to my menstral cycle are far worse now than my bi-polar. 

On a lighter note, I am much more successfully sadistic in sessions when I'm manic. 

Fortunately, I have a variety of subs, who can allow me to actually UTILIZE my disease, I see certain subs when I'm in certain moods and it fulfills all of us.  I am also always open with anyone before that relationship turns serious, and if they cannot understand or handle my reality, they are given the choice to leave without prejudice.  It took me years to accept and learn to deal with my disease, I can respect someone's desire to avoid that.  I also feel that like so many other things, it's part of the core of who I am, there are things that have happened to me and things I have done, in my past that are not pleasant, but that are at the core of my being able to relate, sympathize, empathize with the many mentally "different" individuals I come in contact with.



mystictryst -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 7:29:32 PM)

My Master has suffered/is suffering from depression... And although it has been (at times) difficult, we are in a dedicated, committed relationship and I would support him every inch of the way and I would never turn my back on him because of a mental illness (or any illness).

A mental illness would not affect my perception of a dominant. One can't always 'be on' and if my relationship is based only and soley on his ability to dominate me, than I really would believe we have no basis for a relationship. People are diverse. We are multifaceted. We cannot be identified by a kink. Our kink is part of us, it isn't who we are.

That said, if the person was making no attempt to seek help, get help, or 'get better' that is a different story. Mental illness, although terrible and often debiliating can most often be treated successfully. I cannot work with or help someone who cannot or will not help themselves.

Sometimes, subs need to be strong too. Sometimes we have to lead when our Master's can't. It doesn't make us less submissive or our Masters less dominant, it is just the way life needs to be sometimes.






thetammyjo -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 7:31:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge


To the dominants:

If you do suffer from mental issues, does it make you feel any different about your ability as a dominant?

How have you learned to cope with these issues?



This sets off so much for me so hang on cause this will be a long and an emotional posting I think. Don't want to deal with more of that TammyJo stuff -- stop reading now.

Here's the big secret of the BDSM world: Dominants are human beings too.

How you deal with it is layered.

Admit you want to help yourself and then do what you have to to get that any help you need to take care of yourself.

Stick with it. Realize it isn't going to magically or even quickly get better. These maybe issues you have your entire life but by knowing that and working with that you are so much further ahead that others with similar issues.

Be honest with a potential partner. Don't buy into that BS about how dominants know it all, are emotionalless, adn are perfect rocks for some sub to cling too. It is flat out BS.

Be good to yourself. Make the time in your life to take care of yourself. It is so easy as a caring and good dominant to put others ahead of yourself. Truly it is. We can be do BDSM for ourselves, we can talk the big talk about how it's my way or the highway, and we can strut our stuff. But good dominants are really very caring people who often forget to care about themselves.

Be your own advocate in the scene. If a potentail sub harasses you about your "issues" they are not the sub for you. If a potential sub thinks you aren't real, they want a fantasy not a human being (remember the big secret?). Don't accept a sub who cannot see you for a human being, too.

Be fair in your dealings with your submissive. Just as you have issues so too is the sub you are likely to attract. You don't need to be their counselor or their parent but I think you should expect them to be working just as hard as you are on their own issues. Maybe you can work together but I'd recommend a more objective bit of help too. Don't expect them to do more than you -- be a model for them and expect them to be supportive of you in return.

Finally, try to take time each day to reflect on the good stuff around you, in you, in your sub, and in your world. It is there it may be difficult to see on some days or even most days, but it can strengthen your desire to continue to work on things. Help your sub see these things and expect them to help you see them as well.

Yes, we may live and love and play in hierachies but we set these up and we need to remember that they are between human beings. Never forget you are a human being even if you like to call yourself a goddess or a master.



badkittyamy -> RE: Depression, Anxiety and the Dominant (11/22/2006 8:01:10 PM)

-counts on her hands- My Lady has several disorders to the point where she has pills she carries around because when she gets very manic she looses touch with reality and sees a purple dog. This however in no way effects the way she treats me because she has been dealing with it all her life along with other helth issues like a bad knee.

She takes medication for all of it as well as seeing a therapist and pyshciatrist. She's no different in attitude than most of my friends family etc. When she has a panic attack I have just learned to leave HEr alone, it's not really that hard for me to do and I think it would be silly to give up someone you find to be your perfect match (She's everything i ever wanted in a Domme) because she has a few rough edges. Everyone has their hang ups



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