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RE: Ranting on the degradation of BDSM.... - 11/18/2006 3:20:45 AM   
asiandoll27


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/5/2005
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i think i agree it is more the intellect and the cognitive portion that just sex. Degradation does not have to have sex as a portion of it - its all about the loss that occurs with the perceptions that you hold to be true to your world, and oooowww so psychological in all regards - with the physical aspects occuring to reinforce the mental ones. Wow - did I just say that! :) Would also say for me - Getting knocked off ones pedistal does not always have a sexual aspect to it, and the fall is just as hard.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Ranting on the degradation of BDSM.... - 11/18/2006 7:30:20 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:



And after pondering it and doing some searching, I have conceded the point (see above) that sadomasochism is not always about sex. 



And I will concede the point that it is 'sometimes' about sex.

Is this a first? A meeting of the minds? Compromise? It can't be!

There's only one thing left to do..

What's the difference between a submissive and a slave? ::laughs, ducks and runs::

Celeste


Oh God, please...NOT that...~ducks and runs the other way...bellowing in horror~

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Ranting on the degradation of BDSM.... - 11/18/2006 8:06:15 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

People offering sexual services are a dime a dozen.

I think this statement is a clue to where the OP is coming from -- she is a female dominant after all, and her views are probably skewed by all the clueless "do me" male subs who are trying to catch her eye. That is, after all, a common complaint by the ladies including the submissives whom these guys hit on as they try to find a willing top.

So I think the OP's rant is essentially a function of gender. I doubt you'd find many male doms making the statement I've quoted or complaining about it if they experienced it.





< Message edited by happypervert -- 11/18/2006 8:07:26 AM >


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(in reply to GddssBella)
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RE: Ranting on the degradation of BDSM.... - 11/18/2006 8:06:35 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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Thinking about this, one should never underestimate the power of sex. People will invent all sorts of reasons to fuck each other silly as long as its something spiritually higher than just....well, sex!

I've sat and listened to a sub perform intellectual acrobatics to justify fucking someone because she had an itch that needed scratching but could she admit to herself her motivation was an itch? Hell no, I had to endure the whole convoluted pseudo-intellectual foundation that underpins BDSM before she could allow herself to take her pants off and say fuck me baby! (she didn't say that, that was just for effect)

I put it all down to false morals, the christian belief that sex is a sin. Sex isn't a sin, morals are a sin because you aren't going to keep them because you know damn well you are as horny as a priest in a harem.

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(in reply to GddssBella)
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RE: Ranting on the degradation of BDSM.... - 11/18/2006 8:36:07 AM   
GddssBella


Posts: 343
Joined: 2/24/2004
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*fast reply to no one in particular*

G'morning all:


I did say this was a rant. *chuckling* I just wanted to stir folks up and get them thinking and talking. Looks like I succeeded. *curtsies* I've seen too much fluffy talk on the boards as of late and wanted to interject something that would make people wake up a bit. My methods are not for everyone, nor are my definitions. I welcome healthy debate and discussion. By all means, pick it to death and worry it like a bone. I enjoy seeing what others think and feel.


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...





Bella

_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!"

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Ranting on the degradation of BDSM.... - 11/18/2006 9:51:48 AM   
canupleaseme


Posts: 775
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline
Surely it is about sex when your doing something sexual and not when your not? A lot of what i do re bdsm is sexual because i know i get good control that way but a lot is also mental and nothing to do with sex at all

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(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The popular notion - 11/18/2006 2:58:20 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

I believe the acronym has expanded considerably in the pursuit of accommodating the mainstream palette. It is for this reason I have been avoiding identifying myself with many of the labels and community-oriented terms that are commonly associated with BDSM—not due to their literal meaning, but the sensual diversion they have come to popularly represent. Some literal terms or ideas I will defend boldly, but I do concede to the plasticity of many others.

I think that the term BDSM has been stretched to fit such a wide range of interests and pursuits, of varied styles of life, that it has reached a breaking point of no longer having any valid meaning.  For a long time I've refered to the BDSM community as a "loosely affiliated confederation of people with vaguely similar interests" because that's how I see it.  So many people with so many different ideas, desires, interests, fetishes, boundaries, etc.  A single acronym hardly seems to suffice.  Perhaps the only term I can think of that is broad enough to still apply to the "community" as a whole would be "kinksters".  Yet straight away I can think of one or two exceptions even to that.

Then to I have often felt that part of the reason there is such a fight over possession of various terms (like master and slave, to name two frequent examples) is in part because all these various groups are each striving, rivalling each other, to have their particular ideas and concepts recognized, validated and made the "official" meaning of the disputed label.  A fight for ownership, for control, to control the ability to convey their particular ideas and concepts through singular labels.  So while I have long identified myself with specific terms, I find myself, like you, wanting to eschew them and perhaps invent purely original terms.  But then I am left with the problem that a wholly original term would not be understood and that defeats the utility of the label.  Somes days you feel like you just can't win.

Noah, I enjoyed your post as well.  I agree that ther needs to be a dialog (not a argument, not a fight for control, but a discussion, an open exploration) of these various terms.  Not just where they began or who started what (as often comes up as someone attempts to assert authority by virtue of historical precedent), but more importantly what the terms have become, how they are used now, and whether they remain accurate representations of the concepts indicated.

For example, we often use the terms power exchange and TPE... but is that really accurate any longer?  As LA is fond of pointing out, is there really any power exchanged or is it something else, authority?  That one at least has been discussed before, but there are plenty of others that have hardly had such an examination at all.

And what too of simply creating new terms, why not?  Why not write new values on new tablets?  Is our collective vocabulary so limited that we must fight over "master", "slave", "dominant", "submissive", etc?  Can we not think of, invent, or imagine other labels... a wider variety that is perhaps more appropriate to the wide range of "kinksters" among us?

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The popular notion - 11/18/2006 5:07:29 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
<<That is when it starts to feel like a hollow religion of service-oriented hedonism and prostitution. >>

Wow, I don't know why but when you put it that way..it just sounds extremely hot ...


(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Ranting on the degradation of BDSM.... - 11/18/2006 5:16:10 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Thinking about this, one should never underestimate the power of sex. People will invent all sorts of reasons to fuck each other silly as long as its something spiritually higher than just....well, sex!


Lots of common sense wisdom in that thinking, Meat.

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(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Ranting on the degradation of BDSM.... - 11/18/2006 5:39:47 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:

Thinking about this, one should never underestimate the power of sex. People will invent all sorts of reasons to fuck each other silly as long as its something spiritually higher than just....well, sex!

I've sat and listened to a sub perform intellectual acrobatics to justify fucking someone because she had an itch that needed scratching but could she admit to herself her motivation was an itch? Hell no, I had to endure the whole convoluted pseudo-intellectual foundation that underpins BDSM before she could allow herself to take her pants off and say fuck me baby! (she didn't say that, that was just for effect)

I put it all down to false morals, the christian belief that sex is a sin. Sex isn't a sin, morals are a sin because you aren't going to keep them because you know damn well you are as horny as a priest in a harem.



Whole lotta truth in what you said there

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Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The popular notion - 11/18/2006 6:44:47 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

For example, we often use the terms power exchange and TPE... but is that really accurate any longer? 


For some, yes.

quote:

As LA is fond of pointing out, is there really any power exchanged or is it something else, authority? 


Is exchanging "authority" that much different than exchanging "power"?  Isn't authority a form of power over another person?  If I give someone who normally would not have authority over me, authority over me, is that not an exchange of power?  Have I not given my own power of authority over myself to another person? Or am I missing your point?

quote:

And what too of simply creating new terms, why not?  Why not write new values on new tablets?  Is our collective vocabulary so limited that we must fight over "master", "slave", "dominant", "submissive", etc?  Can we not think of, invent, or imagine other labels... a wider variety that is perhaps more appropriate to the wide range of "kinksters" among us?


Right.  Thats exactly whats needed;  another list of lables to compete over, after we all agree on what the term "kinkster" covers and doesn't cover. 


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marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Ranting on the degradation of BDSM.... - 11/19/2006 2:51:38 AM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

People offering sexual services are a dime a dozen.

I think this statement is a clue to where the OP is coming from -- she is a female dominant after all, and her views are probably skewed by all the clueless "do me" male subs who are trying to catch her eye. That is, after all, a common complaint by the ladies including the submissives whom these guys hit on as they try to find a willing top.

So I think the OP's rant is essentially a function of gender. I doubt you'd find many male doms making the statement I've quoted or complaining about it if they experienced it.





Whoa there!  Not all of us females feel that BDSM is non-sexual and all that happy horseshyte.  Please don't lump us categorically according to personal statements made on a chat site!

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Ranting on the degradation of BDSM.... - 11/19/2006 1:31:45 PM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
I think dustygold, has said it best!

CP

(in reply to GddssBella)
Profile   Post #: 53
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