Milton Friedman 1912-2006

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Level -> Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 3:46:57 PM)
Economist Milton Friedman dies at 94 By JUSTIN M. NORTON, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago Milton Friedman, a Nobel Prize-winning economist who championed individual freedom, influenced the economic policies of three presidents and befriended world leaders, died Thursday. He was 94. Friedman died in San Francisco, said Robert Fanger, a spokesman for the Milton and Rose D. Friedman Foundation in Indianapolis. He did not know the cause of death. "Milton Friedman revived the economics of liberty when it had been all but forgotten," said former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, one of the politicians and colleagues who lauded Friedman on Thursday. "He was an intellectual freedom fighter. Never was there a less dismal practitioner of a dismal science." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061116/ap_on_bi_ge/obit_friedman

subjected2006 -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 3:55:13 PM)
I just finished the second chapter in Free to Choose,"the tyranny of controls".. it was co-authored with his wife. Do you know if she's alive?

meatcleaver -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 4:00:10 PM)
Thatcher used Britain as an experiment for his economics and just about the whole British industrial base was destroyed. Germany and France rejected it and they still have a much larger industrial base than Britain with much better jobs. True they have higher unemployment than Britain now but a Brit on minimum wage earns leass than an unemployed German and is in about the same position than an unemployed Frenchman. Just to add, Britain went back to using neo-Keynsian economics to rebuild the economic wastelands that applying Friedmans economics brought about but politicians don't like talking about that. Thatcher should be buried with Friedman. While she is still alive hopefully.

Level -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 4:09:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subjected2006 I just finished the second chapter in Free to Choose,"the tyranny of controls".. it was co-authored with his wife. Do you know if she's alive? I just checked Wikipedia, subjected, she's still alive according to them.

Level -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 4:14:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Thatcher used Britain as an experiment for his economics and just about the whole British industrial base was destroyed. Germany and France rejected it and they still have a much larger industrial base than Britain with much better jobs. True they have higher unemployment than Britain now but a Brit on minimum wage earns leass than an unemployed German and is in about the same position than an unemployed Frenchman. Just to add, Britain went back to using neo-Keynsian economics to rebuild the economic wastelands that applying Friedmans economics brought about but politicians don't like talking about that. Thatcher should be buried with Friedman. While she is still alive hopefully. Run, Maggie, run! [:D] Economics interest me, but I'm far from being well-versed in the subject; I find it frustrating that people can't seem to pin down a "perfect" system, or one that will at least do a decent jobs of covering all the bases of life.

meatcleaver -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 4:17:17 PM)
Actually listening to economists talking on TV today they seem to agree his basic premise of controling inflation was correct. If that is the case, maybe it was the politicians that misapplied his ideas. I'm not well versed in economics enough to make a judgement on that. I just know what happened to the local economy where I came from.

MasterKalif -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 4:17:45 PM)
a sad day for liberal economics....Friedman was the foundation of neo-liberal policies not just in Britain but around the world....sadly everyone forgets that way before Thatcher was even elected as Prime Minister, her old friend, General Pinochet and his military junta, through Chilean economists known as the "Chicago Boys" (who studied under Milton and were influenced heavily by him) began imposing free market reforms starting in 1974 (about a year after the coup d'etat)...and it was done quite succesfully...comparing Chile's old socialist, chaotic economy on which it lacked even basic goods, to a modern capitalist economy today (true took much pains, trial and error along the way, and the social aspect to the system was added since 1990, after the return of democracy). While his theory in pure form may be imperfect and highly theorical, if applied succesfully, can be very beneficial...I am not sure Britain is doing so badly itself, large state enterprises operating at a loss were sold off (a burden to the state), and bureaucracy streamlined...Britain is richer today than France or Germany....modern economies do not rely on heavy industries anymore in any case as the move now is more towards services, particularly financial services....London is the financial and economic hub of Europe.

meatcleaver -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 4:38:35 PM)
As an economic refugee from Maragret Thatcher's Britain in 1980, Germany and France seem to have better balanced societies than Britain. I went back to Britain in the ninities and there was money to be had, there were people that were much richer and people that were much poorer. I couldn't settle for the rat race of Britain and its economic liberalism and money at all costs culture and came back to continental Europe.

philosophy -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 4:38:56 PM)
...i don't want to speak ill of the dead, but putting Friedman in the same paragraph as Pinochet and Thatcher doesn't speak well of his work.........two regimes that may have been business-friendly, but human rights-light.

LTRsubNW -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 5:44:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Economist Milton Friedman dies at 94 By JUSTIN M. NORTON, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago Milton Friedman, a Nobel Prize-winning economist who championed individual freedom, influenced the economic policies of three presidents and befriended world leaders, died Thursday. He was 94. Friedman died in San Francisco, said Robert Fanger, a spokesman for the Milton and Rose D. Friedman Foundation in Indianapolis. He did not know the cause of death. "Milton Friedman revived the economics of liberty when it had been all but forgotten," said former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, one of the politicians and colleagues who lauded Friedman on Thursday. "He was an intellectual freedom fighter. Never was there a less dismal practitioner of a dismal science." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061116/ap_on_bi_ge/obit_friedman This is signifcant. I've read most of his books.

LTRsubNW -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 5:54:38 PM)
I'm posting to my own (response to) but.... (I love economics, money and anything that correlates to producing more of the shit). (Yahoo): "Milton was one of the great thinkers and economists of the 20th century, and when I was first exposed to his powerful writings about money, free markets and individual freedom, it was like getting hit by a thunderbolt," Gov. Schwarzenneggar". Yeah...that pretty much explains how I felt when I first read his stuff. The guy rocked.

Level -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 6:06:57 PM)
LT, from what I can see, Friedman was possibly the most revered economist of our lifetime, certainly among those leaning to a more capitalistic viewpoint. As I've said, my knowledge of economic theory is limited to reading books by John Kenneth Galbraith, and PJ O'Rourke. I intend on learning more about the man and his thoughts.

LTRsubNW -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 6:45:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level LT, from what I can see, Friedman was possibly the most revered economist of our lifetime, certainly among those leaning to a more capitalistic viewpoint. As I've said, my knowledge of economic theory is limited to reading books by John Kenneth Galbraith, and PJ O'Rourke. I intend on learning more about the man and his thoughts. Level, thanks. He was a hell of an economist and a stunning theorist.. I loved his theory, even if it ran afoul on occasion (which it did)...but...he thought extraordinarily well. I appreciate that in any man or woman. (And he often wasn't the most revered economist...in several circles {as I'm sure you know}, he was often reviled...but you made a great {and hilarious} connection between an inspired writer...who (O'Rourke), as many may not know...truly has a grasp on economics...and it was (his comments...were) fitting...Friedman loved a challenge). (I sure hope a lot of people say goodbye to him).

LTRsubNW -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 6:53:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterKalif a sad day for liberal economics....Friedman was the foundation of neo-liberal policies not just in Britain but around the world....sadly everyone forgets that way before Thatcher was even elected as Prime Minister, her old friend, General Pinochet and his military junta, through Chilean economists known as the "Chicago Boys" (who studied under Milton and were influenced heavily by him) began imposing free market reforms starting in 1974 (about a year after the coup d'etat)...and it was done quite succesfully...comparing Chile's old socialist, chaotic economy on which it lacked even basic goods, to a modern capitalist economy today (true took much pains, trial and error along the way, and the social aspect to the system was added since 1990, after the return of democracy). While his theory in pure form may be imperfect and highly theorical, if applied succesfully, can be very beneficial...I am not sure Britain is doing so badly itself, large state enterprises operating at a loss were sold off (a burden to the state), and bureaucracy streamlined...Britain is richer today than France or Germany....modern economies do not rely on heavy industries anymore in any case as the move now is more towards services, particularly financial services....London is the financial and economic hub of Europe. Miltons' theories were for history. His theories weren't for status or for a group. They simply exist. They're math. For all to verify. He had an amazing knack for being able to explain complex theory to the masses. I would have given a years salary to watch this guy thatch lawn.

mnottertail -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 6:57:22 PM)
I suspec tthat paying someone to thatch his lawn was an expense and was efficient in terms of the economy. and for him, was a net-net gain. Alan Greenspan

Level -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 7:15:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW quote: ORIGINAL: Level LT, from what I can see, Friedman was possibly the most revered economist of our lifetime, certainly among those leaning to a more capitalistic viewpoint. As I've said, my knowledge of economic theory is limited to reading books by John Kenneth Galbraith, and PJ O'Rourke. I intend on learning more about the man and his thoughts. Level, thanks. He was a hell of an economist and a stunning theorist.. I loved his theory, even if it ran afoul on occasion (which it did)...but...he thought extraordinarily well. I appreciate that in any man or woman. (And he often wasn't the most revered economist...in several circles {as I'm sure you know}, he was often reviled...but you made a great {and hilarious} connection between an inspired writer...who (O'Rourke), as many may not know...truly has a grasp on economics...and it was (his comments...were) fitting...Friedman loved a challenge). (I sure hope a lot of people say goodbye to him). I hope so too, LT, and imagine they shall, all over the world. As for PJ [:D], I'd make his Eat The Rich required reading in schools everywhere.

MasterKalif -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/16/2006 8:54:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW Miltons' theories were for history. His theories weren't for status or for a group. They simply exist. They're math. For all to verify. He had an amazing knack for being able to explain complex theory to the masses. I would have given a years salary to watch this guy thatch lawn. LTRsubNW, I totally agree with you, my point is not that his theories were only meant for Maggie's economists or Pinochet's Chicago Boys, but for the whole world....my point was more that his theories work (in the case of Chile for example with some minor tweaks and small changes), and that it was applied as early as 1974 there before it was tried in Britain or even to a much smaller extent in the US starting from the Reagan years....I am glad he was willing to teach people what it was about and how true his predictions were....he made a quick (much criticized) visit to Chile sometime in 1975, where he held meetings with the local economic team and with eager government officials and fully explained his implications....that by applying this model, Chile's de-facto dictatorship was in the long run relinquishing absolute power (at least economically), bringing changes even the military leaders could not forsee, forcing the country to open up to the world, which brought new ideas, and eventually the case for democracy and open society. Goodbye Friedman !!! a great economist, along with Von Hayek, and as revered now as much as Keynes in his time I would like to think.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/17/2006 1:51:22 PM)
I think it is totally untrue to say that the application of Friedmann's ideas wrecked the industrial base of the UK. That wrecking had been progressing nicely long before Thatcher took a moneterist approach and is mainly due to the ethos and attitude of the British public school graduates and their distaste for engineering, technology and industry. Friedmann pointed out that if the total supply/rate of increase of money in an economy gets out of line with the real output then one consequence is...inflation. He was right...thats what happened in the UK and thats what we got.

meatcleaver -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/17/2006 2:22:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Friedmann pointed out that if the total supply/rate of increase of money in an economy gets out of line with the real output then one consequence is...inflation. He was right...thats what happened in the UK and thats what we got. France was in the same position as Britain in the seventies. Britain lost its industrial base and France didn't. Now whether that was down to Thatcher or Friedman's theories or whether the French had superior policies, I don't know.

Raphael -> RE: Milton Friedman 1912-2006 (11/17/2006 2:33:56 PM)
Friedman was a defender of liberty on every front. Politicians are constitutionally incapable of being that. The fact that he got some politicians to apply his theory in small portions is a tribute to his pursuasiveness. The fact that their partial implementation of his ideas as small pools in a larger, unfree, pond had mixed results should surprise no one. For a good example, Pinochet is well known, and rightly so, for human rights abuses. But keep in mind that those abuses were not Friedmans idea. Pinochet only listened to Friedman regarding a limited subset of economic problems - and under him, the Chilean economy did much better than those neighboring. This meant, among other things, fewer children starving to death. This was a real improvement to a very bad situation. Just because he wasn't able to single-handedly reverse all the injustice and abuse in the world shouldn't detract from the fact that he had a positive effect. He will be missed.

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