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Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 6:38:17 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		The wicked rumour that Neanderthals are alive and well and making foreign policy in western capitals is a lie. Apparently Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens so I guess we have to assume that Homosapiens aren't as developed as we originally thought.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1949475,00.html

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 7:44:11 AM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		I am disappointed. I cherished the romantic hypothesis that we might have interbred. A genetic distance of half a million years is a very definite no, though.

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 8:04:51 AM   
juliaoceania


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Status: offline 		This actually confirms that replacement occurred which is something that most anthropologists were pretty sure of before this.

Here is one article about DNA testing before this

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/neanderthal.html

edited to add some information as to why some people may resemble modern Neanderthals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergmann's_Rule

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 11/16/2006 8:08:23 AM >

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 8:05:40 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		Until someone steps forward and says they were there to witness the whole thing........actually, now that I think about it, why does it matter?

edited cuz my brain and fingers are not cooperating with each other today


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 11/16/2006 8:07:50 AM >

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 8:07:54 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Until someone steps forward and says there were there to witness the whole thing........actually, now that I think about it, why does it matter?


It doesn't matter except out of interest.......and I guess we can no longer call moronic politicians Neanderthals.

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 8:08:33 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		Not to mention a few of our fellow posters!

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 8:11:57 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Until someone steps forward and says they were there to witness the whole thing........actually, now that I think about it, why does it matter?

edited cuz my brain and fingers are not cooperating with each other today



It matters because if we can study gene flow within humanity and how that occurred upon the landscape we might have an understanding of our history as a species. In my view that leads to understanding ourselves.

This is natural history, many people do not care what happened yesterday, much less what happened 500 thousand years ago, so I understand your opinion. Thankfully for me not everyone shares it (although I am not a physical anthropologist I have studied it some)

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 8:30:42 AM   
Marc2b


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Status: offline 		It’s all a lie. Neanderthals are alive and well and still subject to nasty prejudice and stereotyping – hasn’t anyone seen those Geico commercials?

Seriously, Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals may not have interbred because they weren’t capable of breeding with each other (sort of like trying to breed cats with dogs) but that doesn’t mean they never had sex with each other. We lived side by side for about fifty thousand years and never once got down with each other? Even if the Homo Sapien males thought the Neanderthal women were real woofers, you just know that every tribe had one or two looser guys, who couldn’t get any from the Homo Sapien women and... well...

Still, I’m not convinced Neanderthal DNA didn’t make it’s way into the Homo Sapien (or at least the European) genome. Come on, folks, don’t you on occasion see someone with a protruding brow ridge and/or virtually no chin, and think to your self, there’s a Neanderthal? Actor Ron Perlman is a good example.

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 8:37:34 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		Is that kinda like the joke about the farmer and the ewe?

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 9:10:19 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Still, I’m not convinced Neanderthal DNA didn’t make it’s way into the Homo Sapiens (or at least the European) genome.
The earlier DNA research concerned mitochondrial DNA. As mitochondria are only passed on by the females, this was not conclusive evidence of no interbreeding between us and them. However, this new research appears to have identified nuclear DNA. When that establishes a genetic distance of half a million years, it is conclusive evidence that no Neanderthal alleles have been incorporated into our gene pool.
 
We will have to wait and see what new DNA research turns up, but at the moment it looks like all Neanderthal alleles have been lost and that they indeed became extinct. Unless there is a zoo of Neanderthals on a planet in a galaxy far away...

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 9:32:44 AM   
fergus


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Status: offline 		Lumpers and spliters.

Ever since Neandthal man was discovered we have wondered what place he had.  At first, he was supposed to be the 'missing link' in which we evolved from.  Then - through carbon dating and other techniques - is was shown we existed along side of him.

So some say that we are Homo Sapiens and that he was Homo Neaderthal.  Those are the people that suggest we are different species.  In this case, we could not 'interbreed'.  It does NOT mean that we could not produce offspring.  For instance, the horse and the donkey can produce an offspring.  THe mule.  But 80% of mules are infertile - therefore, although the horse and the donkey are close, they are not the same species.  Same thing with cows and buffalo, and with tigers and lions.

There are others who believe we could be the same species with different xenotypes - Homo sapiens sapiens and Homo sapiens neanderthalensis.  This would mean that we were the same species (but different breeds) with the ability to interbreed and produce fertile off-spring.  This is similar to dogs - who have different breeds with RADICALLY different appearance and traits, yet can interbreed and produce offspring.

Okay, so here it is, in the first case - there might be isolated instances of a 'mixed' off-spring, but with no ability to continue to produce children, plus the possible cultural/physical/territorial differences, it would not make any significant impact.  In the second case - if we assume it was true - then there might have been a subsumation of the neanderthal into cro-magnon man through enough interbreeding and contact - the 'pure' strains of neanderthal would have died out due to 'survival of the fittest' while the cro-magnon man might have lived on with a continued strain of the neanderthal genome.  However - there just is not enough evidence in genetics or fossil records.  I am inclinded to think that even if complete interbreeding were possible, that it was profoundly unlikely to happen in a significant way becasue the fossil evidence is just not there - except in some really isolated cases.

fergus

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 9:42:44 AM   
Aileen68


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Status: offline 		Yeah but, Neanderthals are really good in the sack.

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 9:46:59 AM   
gooddogbenji


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Status: offline 		You're a dirty girl, Aileen.

Care to come over?

Yours,


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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 9:47:55 AM   
fergus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

Yeah but, Neanderthals are really good in the sack.


But Aileen ... Neanderthals are pretty close to monkeys.  You can't be doing that in the house.

fergus

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 9:53:31 AM   
gooddogbenji


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Status: offline 		That's the main reason she can't have them in the house.

If she did, the world would be overrun with little Neanderleens.

Yours,


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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 9:57:04 AM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		Neanderthals were a cold adapted species of Homo sapiens. Whereas we are warm weather adapted Homo sapiens. Thus a physical barrier existed that prevented crossbreeding.
Somewhere in the mid-eighties of the previous century I realized that it was the invention of clothing by us that caused the extinction or out-breeding of the Neanderthal. (Independently from me aan acquaintance formulated the same hypothesis.) The invention of clothing negated the physical barrier.
 
If crossbreeding was possible, the cold specialized Neanderthal alleles would have disappeared from the gene pool very quickly. Non-specialized alleles might have survived.
 
Anyway, when speciation occurs the subpopulations usually perceive the other population to produce a stink that discourages interbreeding. This may have been a factor in interactions between us and Neanderthals. Perhaps this is the origin of the insult: "you stink".

< Message edited by Rule -- 11/16/2006 10:23:03 AM >

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 10:11:24 AM   
Aileen68


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OMGitswellhungbenji

little Neanderleens.


Hahahahahahaha.  Very funny.

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 12:50:28 PM   
Lordandmaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Neanderthals were a cold adapted species of Homo sapiens. Whereas we are warm weather adapted Homo sapiens. Thus a physical barrier existed that prevented crossbreeding.
Somewhere in the mid-eighties of the previous century I realized that it was the invention of clothing by us that caused the extinction or out-breeding of the Neanderthal. (Independently from me aan acquaintance formulated the same hypothesis.) The invention of clothing negated the physical barrier.

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 1:18:27 PM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		No. Why do you ask? I do not believe that you are trying to insult me, and it does not ruffle my feathers, but it is a good attempt.

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RE: Neanderthals never interbred with Homosapiens. - 11/16/2006 1:19:24 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		They didn't?
Look at John Kerry.

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