Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (Full Version)

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KenDckey -> Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 3:12:43 PM)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061110/us_nm/life_pledge_dc

Not sure this is totally legal.   I think just stop putting it on their agenda thus not doing it would be better if they have an objection, but to ban it?   I think it is constitutionally protected speech if someone so chooses.



Lordandmaster -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 3:20:52 PM)

I understand what they're frustrated about, but you can't BAN the pledge of allegiance.  Being an American means accepting things that other people do, even if you don't like them.

Few people seem to treasure freedom.



sissifytoserve -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 3:35:50 PM)

Sounds like something Mexifornia would do.

Oh...im sorry...thats not PC.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 3:43:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Few people seem to treasure freedom.

What a true statement.  People tend to accept freedom, but "only if it's done my way."  Go figure.




ZenrageTheKeeper -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 4:37:01 PM)

There are certain pieces of speech that are banned in society.

You can't threaten people with violence.
You can't threaten the President's life.
You can't yell "fire" in a theater.

A little less dramatic: You can't reveal certain company secrets outside the company. Or from the other side of the communication... You can't let minors in to see R and X rated movies and you can't show X rated movies on public television.

Its not what gets communicated, its the level of social responsibility involved in allowing the free exchange of that specific communication. In this case, the communication being the phrase "Under God" which may not be directly unconstitutional, since the pledge is by no means mandatory, becomes unconstitutional when it is used in government funded activities - like schools and universities. In this case, the ban is perfectly legit.



Level -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 4:48:32 PM)

I'd follow the one young lady's suit and loudly pledge the allegiance at each meeting, and let a resounding fart out as well, when able.



KenDckey -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 4:56:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenrageTheKeeper

There are certain pieces of speech that are banned in society.

You can't threaten people with violence.
You can't threaten the President's life.
You can't yell "fire" in a theater.

A little less dramatic: You can't reveal certain company secrets outside the company. Or from the other side of the communication... You can't let minors in to see R and X rated movies and you can't show X rated movies on public television.

Its not what gets communicated, its the level of social responsibility involved in allowing the free exchange of that specific communication. In this case, the communication being the phrase "Under God" which may not be directly unconstitutional, since the pledge is by no means mandatory, becomes unconstitutional when it is used in government funded activities - like schools and universities. In this case, the ban is perfectly legit.


I can agree that if they take it off the agenda, thus making it non-mandatory, is absolutely correct.   What bothers me is that they banned it.   Banning, because it mentions God, is tatramount to banning any mention of any diaty (sp) of any religion practiced by anyone (isn't that a violation of freedom of religion practices?) and by specifically banning the pledge of allegiance isn't that a violation of freedom of political speech?

And banning religious speech on public property tratramount to banning religion (whether or not you believe in any God) because isn't the property of the churches generally owned by the people of that church and not to a specific individual?   And isn't property owned by the people considered public property?

If you take it off the agenda, then formally saying the Pledge of Alligience, would be a violation of the rules of order?   That doesn't have the same effect of banning it completely which I still contend would violate freedome of speech/religion which because of the ban would subject those that do say it to some form of punitive action?



KenDckey -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 4:57:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I'd follow the one young lady's suit and loudly pledge the allegiance at each meeting, and let a resounding fart out as well, when able.


I wonder what the punishment is for saying it is?  BTW  Did you know that farting at a sewer plant is a perk?    LOL



Level -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 5:00:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I'd follow the one young lady's suit and loudly pledge the allegiance at each meeting, and let a resounding fart out as well, when able.


I wonder what the punishment is for saying it is?  BTW  Did you know that farting at a sewer plant is a perk?    LOL


Having a bunch of Vicks in one's nose at a sewage plant would be nice, too [:D]. My employer and most officers use that on particulary nasty inquests.
 
I don't know what the punishment would be, Ken, but I'd work like hell to get their "rule" overturned.



KenDckey -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 5:18:55 PM)

I agree Level.   The rule is wrong.   way wrong. 



ownedgirlie -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 5:56:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Having a bunch of Vicks in one's nose at a sewage plant would be nice, too [:D]. My employer and most officers use that on particulary nasty inquests.


Don't get me started on Vick's and my late grandmother....*shudders*



Level -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 6:12:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Having a bunch of Vicks in one's nose at a sewage plant would be nice, too [:D]. My employer and most officers use that on particulary nasty inquests.


Don't get me started on Vick's and my late grandmother....*shudders*


LOL owned.......... I have a friend, whose mom believes Vick's is the be all end all of cures.
 
Now, how can Vick's work in a bdsm context? *thinks sadistically*



KenDckey -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 6:15:15 PM)

I don't know about BDSM but the Army issues it to the troops who are exposed to dead bodies.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 6:16:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Having a bunch of Vicks in one's nose at a sewage plant would be nice, too [:D]. My employer and most officers use that on particulary nasty inquests.


Don't get me started on Vick's and my late grandmother....*shudders*


LOL owned.......... I have a friend, whose mom believes Vick's is the be all end all of cures.
 
Now, how can Vick's work in a bdsm context? *thinks sadistically*

Oh quite easily.  I am convince my grandmother was a sadist.

* Shove it all the way up nostrils until it actually reaches your sinuses - ouch
* Dab a bit under your eyes so that they water uncontrollably, leaving you temporarily blind
* Eat the stuff, and then try not to vomit
* Then there's always just smearing half a jar on your chest so that your skin melts...



KenDckey -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 6:20:41 PM)

Kinkyyyyyyyyyyyyy    hehehehehehehe



ownedgirlie -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 6:21:44 PM)

LOL nah, she was just tough, man, really tough! 



thompsonx -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 6:28:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061110/us_nm/life_pledge_dc

Not sure this is totally legal.   I think just stop putting it on their agenda thus not doing it would be better if they have an objection, but to ban it?   I think it is constitutionally protected speech if someone so chooses.



KenDckey:
I read the link you posted.  Perhaps you should reread it.
Neither Orange Coast College(the largest junior college in America) nor the Coast Community College district has banned anything, let alone the pledge of allegience.  The article is talking about the student council which is refered to as student trustees.  The student council at Orange Coast College (where I went to school for my lower division work) has only slightly more power than the glee club.  What they have banned is the recitation of the pledge of allegience from student council meetings by the members of the student council.  This ban does not apply to anyone who is a spectator at a student council meeting.  They have no authority to ban it any place else. This rule may be overturned at any time by a vote of the student council which is elected every semester.  This ban only affects the student council.  They voted it in with only one desinting vote. 

thompson



KenDckey -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 6:35:45 PM)

ok   given it is only the student council.   why not just take it off the agenda.   why create a ban which begs punishment in some form.   and it still doesn't address the fact that it is constitutionally protected speech.   so if they punish someone for reciting it and say anything to them or chastise them in any way, aren't they violating the constitution?



Lordandmaster -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 6:39:25 PM)

But you can't BAN the pledge any more than you can BAN prayer in school.  It's one thing to prevent the government from FORCING students to recite the pledge (or to pray), but that's not the same thing as banning it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenrageTheKeeper

Its not what gets communicated, its the level of social responsibility involved in allowing the free exchange of that specific communication. In this case, the communication being the phrase "Under God" which may not be directly unconstitutional, since the pledge is by no means mandatory, becomes unconstitutional when it is used in government funded activities - like schools and universities. In this case, the ban is perfectly legit.



KenDckey -> RE: Orange Coast College Banned Pledge of Allegience (11/10/2006 6:42:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

But you can't BAN the pledge any more than you can BAN prayer in school.  It's one thing to prevent the government from FORCING students to recite the pledge (or to pray), but that's not the same thing as banning it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenrageTheKeeper

Its not what gets communicated, its the level of social responsibility involved in allowing the free exchange of that specific communication. In this case, the communication being the phrase "Under God" which may not be directly unconstitutional, since the pledge is by no means mandatory, becomes unconstitutional when it is used in government funded activities - like schools and universities. In this case, the ban is perfectly legit.



Exactly.   Taking it off the agenda at the college would prevent an organized sanctioned reciting of the pledge of alliegence.   Banning it is un constitutional



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