RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit

RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (Full Version)

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dvart -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 8:26:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Submissive is not just the action, it is a way of being my point in a nutshell !

MasterFireMaam -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 8:31:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dvart To put it more clearly: if someone just has a kink to be tied up AND wants control the time,place and method where this will be done AND shows no signs whatsoever of wanting to submit, then is such a person really a submissive ? It's quite possible that they're not, according to your definitions (and mine). To me, they'd be a bottom. But then, I also seperate sadism and masochism from relationship dynamics. However, in the community at large, it's often assumed that masochist = submissive. So, people who are masochistic often times assume that means they HAVE to list themselves as submissive. This is where we get the idea of a switch...someone who is both a sadist and a masochist must obviously be both Dominant and submissive, right? (Wrong, in my opinion). Now, shall we discuss service roles and relationship dynamics? LOL Master Fire

juliaoceania -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 8:32:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dvart quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Submissive is not just the action, it is a way of being my point a nutshell ! My point is how can you judge that based on a profile? I mean we all make judgments about people in a half assed sort of way (at least I do), but I know that many of my judgments may not be valid. You do not know any information other than someone wrote a description in a profile of what they are looking for on this particular day and time, that could change tomorrrow, so how can you evaluate their submissiveness? My Daddy has a rule for me, I am never to state someone is a wannabe dom, I can think it, but I am not to state this in public, why? I am a submissive, how would I know who is or is not a dominant? I may judge them as not being a dominant I would want around, but that does not mean I can judge how domly they are.

CrappyDom -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 8:37:20 AM)
dvart Please note, the following is sarcasm but it is meant to put YOU on the other side of your "not disparaging" comments... Who would want one of these "easy" submissives who talk all about how they want to submit? They submit so easily, there is no challenge to dominanting them. How boring is that? Its sort of like having sex with a blow up doll. The point is, worry about YOUR submission, don't go throwing labels on OTHER people. For ME, there is nothing hotter than taming a woman who has been a bottom or even a top but upon meeting me her knees go weak and her cunt gets wet at the thought of kneeling at my feet. Even if that ISN'T the case, judge not less thee be judged!

desoutter -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 8:48:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dvart There are some "submissives" whose profiles read like this "I'm an independent woman, I won't be a doormat, I won't do anything you ask unless I want to and sometimes (at a time of my own choosing) I will ORDER you to tie me up in such a way as I have predefined in detail." (OK I am exaggerating a little) I complete understand, because I certainly wouldn't want to submit, but isn't it a bit misleading for someone like this to describe themselves as a "submissive". Doesn't submissive imply more than a need to be tied up, such as wanting to SUBMIT to someone? Good question.... In my opinion, a woman... especially a woman who participates in this lifestyle... MUST be dominant to some degree as submissive as they are... It is very difficult for anyone who is submissive... in these dark days... to find someone they trust enough to give the greatest gift of submission to... I consider 'the courtship of a sub' a crazy wild animal.... A submissive seeks out her Dom/Master for whatever her reasons may be.... but CANNOT let down her gaurd... there are just too many variables in the world that are against them.... safety for oneself is paramount and this attitude comes with a certain amount of dominance.... it has to... A sub must be selective... cautious... careful... and then some... I do not envy the subs search for a reliable... sound... Dom. All at once they need to be all these things and at the same time leave themselve exposed to the unknown.... I have a great deal of admiration for the sub... the act of their submission, to me, is the ultimate compliment... it says simply, 'I trust you... ' desoutter

ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 8:52:34 AM)
A fast reply - Master Steve, formerly of Butchmann's Academy, put it best - I think. I'm paraphrasing - and note that he spoke of Master, slave as a generic reference that he was comfortable with. "Most slaves are far more complete than the person they submit to. They are usually more accomplished, more able and more skilled. The reason that they submit is simply this - there is a hole in their heart that only someone who can Master them can fill." My property makes my life easier, more enriched and more rewarding by her service and submission. I've found that in most cases, the slaves that do give themselves (and again, I speak generically) honestly and fully within their means are far more than doormats and one dimensional sub-cutouts. To answer the OP, I think there are two possibilities - the profile may not be of someone who understands what they want or the profile is of someone who wants to bottom in very specific ways. More power to the latter and kudos for being upfront in what they want. In the case of the former, it could be that they will learn, hopefully soon enough. Regards, EO

raiken -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 9:00:39 AM)
dvart, The thing for me is this. It takes a certain chemistry between folks to bring out the best in one another. Folks who come together who make each feel good, JUST because of the people they are, and what they stand for , and what they are about at their core. Have you ever had a person tell you that you make them feel good, or feel submissive or feel dominant, or just feel alive, whatever, just BECAUSE you are YOU? Tis the case in a healthy d/s or m/s relationship also. i just can't submit to, or obey just anyone. i AM choosey, because i value myself that much. It doesn't mean that i will be obstinate or difficult to manage for a dominant, the right dominant, because i chose the dominant that best suits the person i am, and vice versa. It works becuase i found the best person who is my complement and i theirs. It is also about knowing who i am, as this helps me to be clear about what i seek and hope to find in another. It is about the connection and nature of the chemistry and relationship for me FIRST and foremeost. The rest of the bdsm, d/s or m/s exchange is just the icing on an already well baked cake. smile There have been men who have naturally brought out my submission, because they were the ones able to "recognize" in me, what they have and desire within themselves, again finding each other's complement. They are the ones who didn't "lump" me into that herd mentality and "generic sub" pool. Tis all in the mix of character, core beliefs and desires, etc, common interests, with the exchange of power as only ONE of the aspects in another that has the draw, that spark that comes alive between people, just because of who they are in relation to one another. My way of caring and being afectionate is through my submisson in an intimate relationship. Tis just my way of life and my personality and how i express myself in the context of every relationship i have ever had. So yeah, i am going to be very careful in that respect. Just me. smile

MasterFireMaam -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 9:01:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExtremeOwnerIL Master Steve, formerly of Butchmann's Academy Side note, 'cause I'm a scientist and I have to have the facts right or it bugs the crap out of me...Master Steve Sampson is still very much a part of the APEX Academy in the Butchmanns Tradition (commonly known as Butchmanns). Some links to what he's said about Heart of Master and Heart of Slave Heart of Master Heart of slave Master Fire

Dnomyar -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 9:35:52 AM)
To the Op. I wont diviate from your post like most in here have. As far as a sub saying that she is a Sam and a challenge. Why put up with that crap. Pass her by for someone willing to work with you to make a relationship work. Why would they even need to mention that they are not a doormat. To me that means that you have issues that you havent delt with. Get rid of your baggage before you come on here seeking. Or else put in your profile that you are a Drama Queen.

BitaTruble -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 9:57:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dvart There are some "submissives" whose profiles read like this "I'm an independent woman, I won't be a doormat, I won't do anything you ask unless I want to and sometimes (at a time of my own choosing) I will ORDER you to tie me up in such a way as I have predefined in detail." (OK I am exaggerating a little) That 'exaggerating' changes the entire context of the profile though. You can't have it both ways. You are seeking answers on a figment of your own imagination. quote: I complete understand, because I certainly wouldn't want to submit, but isn't it a bit misleading for someone like this to describe themselves as a "submissive". Doesn't submissive imply more than a need to be tied up, such as wanting to SUBMIT to someone? The 'someone like this' whom you describe is someone you put forth via your own exaggeration, so if you are going to make up a worse case scenario, why ask others if that worse case is really submissive? You're the one who made it up, so what was your intention? The thing is, you don't get to dictate to strangers how they act, what they want, how they think or anything else (you do get to form your own personal opinions on them though, so that's something!) The best you get to do is be yourself and try to find someone who likes that self or who is willing to be molded (to whatever extent) into what you desire for yourself. Just because you don't see someone as a submissive to you, doesn't mean they are not the perfect submissive to someone else. Your complaint is an old one. Just go check out some of the threads in the Ask a Mistress forum. ::chuckles:: Celeste

juliaoceania -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 10:03:50 AM)
quote: The 'someone like this' whom you describe is someone you put forth via your own exaggeration, so if you are going to make up a worse case scenario, why ask others if that worse case is really submissive? You're the one who made it up, so what was your intention? The thing is, you don't get to dictate to strangers how they act, what they want, how they think or anything else (you do get to form your own personal opinions on them though, so that's something!) The best you get to do is be yourself and try to find someone who likes that self or who is willing to be molded (to whatever extent) into what you desire for yourself. Just because you don't see someone as a submissive to you, doesn't mean they are not the perfect submissive to someone else. Your complaint is an old one. Just go check out some of the threads in the Ask a Mistress forum. ::chuckles:: Celeste Exactly, this sounds like is a fictionalized submissive/bottom created as a straw man to debate who is "real" and who is "not". Very well stated Celeste about one man's submissive is another's do me...

ExtremeOwnerIL -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 10:20:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam Side note, 'cause I'm a scientist and I have to have the facts right or it bugs the crap out of me...Master Steve Sampson is still very much a part of the APEX Academy in the Butchmanns Tradition (commonly known as Butchmanns). Some links to what he's said about Heart of Master and Heart of Slave Heart of Master Heart of slave Master Fire Fantastic news (and good to hear he's still around) and thank you for the links - I had lost them long ago. Regards, EO

Kalira -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 10:25:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dvart There are some "submissives" whose profiles read like this "I'm an independent woman, I won't be a doormat, I won't do anything you ask unless I want to and sometimes (at a time of my own choosing) I will ORDER you to tie me up in such a way as I have predefined in detail." (OK I am exaggerating a little) I complete understand, because I certainly wouldn't want to submit, but isn't it a bit misleading for someone like this to describe themselves as a "submissive". Doesn't submissive imply more than a need to be tied up, such as wanting to SUBMIT to someone? In some cases they are bottoms, unfortunatly, collame does not give them a specific section in which to state this; all they have to choose from is submissive/slave Also you must remember that a profile is nothing more than an introduction. You may find, after actually talking to a person, that they are more submissive than you previously thought.

Morrigel -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 2:39:56 PM)
Interesting thread. I have always recognized the difference between "bottoms" and "submissives" myself, but I recognize in both categories that they have to have decent social skills before I'd want to play with them. There are many non-submissive bottoms who I have loved as friends and played with at public events, but these people were not self-identified as "submissives" or "slaves"--most of them said they were switches, as I recall, if any label was needed at all beyond, "Hi! My name is ____." I wonder if having to categorize oneself in a certain way, sight unseen, creates false expectations in others? --M

sharainks -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 3:38:35 PM)
Yes I think a bottom or top category needs to be included on CM. When you have limited choices to choose from and yours isn't on there all you can do is pick the closest and use your profile to explain.

Sinergy -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 3:51:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsKatHouston That sounds more like a bottom to me. But I don't think there is an option for bottom only on here. (could be wrong) So, in such cases, one probably has to delve a bit deeper into exactly what the person is looking for in terms of control. Hello A/all, I have to agree with this. Some people simply enjoy getting beaten or dominated sexually, but dont really have any need or desire to "submit" to another person. I dont think there is anything wrong with this. I am sure that such people will eventually find somebody who likes them that way. Domination and submission, to me, is mostly mental, and the beatings and cheerleader outfit-butt rapings, kung fu action grip, spankings, orgasms, floggings, are all simply icing on the cake to me. Just me, could be wrong, but there you go. Sinergy

ExSteelAgain -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 4:18:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sharainks Yes I think a bottom or top category needs to be included on CM. When you have limited choices to choose from and yours isn't on there all you can do is pick the closest and use your profile to explain. I think you will have few who will check off bottom and not submissive, ditto for tops and Doms. Very few.

Kaledorus -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 4:51:55 PM)
Most of the people you will meet are those who in reality are just kinky and not into genuine Dominance and submission. They may well think that they have these traits but in actuality are just out for the sex games. Nothing wrong with that of course but it tends to muddy the field. So-called "scene parties" and all of that stuff is rife with such examples.

CrappyDom -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 5:28:05 PM)
"just kinky" and not pure like I am What arrogant condescending bullshit. quote: Nothing wrong with that of course but it tends to muddy the field. So is there nothing wrong with it or is it "muddy"? Sometimes I really can't stand the idiocy I see here. As far as people like yourself are concerned, please always consider me "muddy", "just kinky" and whatever other slurs you want to throw around and NEVER include me in whatever idiotic pool you play in.

theRose4U -> RE: I wonder if some "submissives" want to submit (10/31/2006 7:54:06 PM)
As a switch I run into this from both sides ALL THE TIME. You get the boys that want all the kinky sex stuff but OMG the world comes to anend and they freak out if you ask about service or what's in it for you. Well you get to fuck me with a strap on, yeah but I'm looking for extended play and more practical items. OH you're one of those take advantage domestic dommes that wants a slave to be your bitch. rant, rave, piss, moan call you everything under the sun and the next morning you get the email so do you want to fuck me or not. Umm pass. The other side of the coin I handle with a simple statement. I'm a bitch but not your bitch. Refine your approach or move on. It doesn't make me not submissive it makes me not interested in submission to that person. Doormats and sluts are easy to tame, a good submissive takes some work.

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