RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves

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emdoub -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/26/2006 10:21:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied Mentoring is another thing I don't understand. I think it could easily turn into a relationship where the mentor takes advantage, trying to convince a sub that this stuff is all about the perfect deep throat. Oh, taking unfair advantage of subs is *FUN!! And if you trick them by making sure they have fun too, they'll never catch on, and you can do it again and again! On a (slightly) more serious note, any relationship in BDSM can be abused or become abusive. Come to think of it, any relationship outside of BDSM can get that way, too. A couple of years ago, my (then 6th grade) daughter had a teacher who was very* touchy-feeley - frequent hugging, arm-across-shoulder, and like that. Made me watchful, and it rather surprised me that no parent complained - maybe the other parents didn't see it. But, as far as I know, the kids liked him, and my daughter never heard that he'd copped a feel from other students. So, watchful was as far as I needed to go with it - distrusting a teacher/student dynamic just because abuse was possible wouldn't have been reasonable of me. Distrusting a mentor or training dynamic just because of the possibility of abuse strikes me as unreasonable, too. I've trained, and mentored, and learned a helluva lot from others, in all places of the BDSM spectrum. I strongly suspect that it's much more about who the person is than about what their orientation is. People who limit themselves to learning from just one orientation are doing exactly that - limiting themselves. Midnight Writer

gypsygrl -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/26/2006 10:27:11 AM)
On the issue of what a mentor is: the way I understand it is derived from my knowledge of mentoring relationships in professional situations. Typically a more experienced member of a profession takes a less experienced member under their wing and shows them the ropes. Its quite different from a more formal teaching relationship and supplements that. According to this usage, professors only mentor students who are going into academics or a closely related field which doesn't mean they aren't able to educate all of them who cross their path. Other people might use the word differently. The argument then becomes a definitional problem, but theres another thread for that. lol

KatyLied -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/26/2006 10:34:02 AM)
quote: The argument then becomes a definitional problem, but theres another thread for that. lol And we don't want to go there!

juliaoceania -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/26/2006 10:51:30 AM)
quote: and while i do not equate a mentor with a trainer, i do view it as more of a leadership and guidance position, not one of kinship and comraderie. professor/student, as opposed to buxom buddies. I agree as someone that went to college, and I would never involve myself intimately with a mentor type person or a professor. I would never choose a dominant that had mentored me to submit to.. it is not what mentors do. As far as submissives go, mentoring to me is imparting wisdom and showing someone the ropes in some aspect of life, a submissive person could mentor me as a novice to the lifestyle just as effectively as a dominant person. In some ways it would be beneficial as submissives can point out the pitfalls from a point of view a dominant cannot. In other words having successfully been involved in a Ds relationship a fellow submissive may be able to tell me things a dominant cannot... this is a form of mentoring. It is not a bossom buddy, it is someone that has experiences I can learn from. Wisdom, understanding, patience, and honesty are not dominant traits, they are human traits. A dominant has a certain nature and a submissive has a certain nature... we compliment each other, one type is not inherently more wise or all knowing than another type heartfeltsub is right, a good many submissives have positions of leadership which they perform admirably at, they desire to submit in their intimate relationships, this does not mean that they do not have innate leadership qualities of their own, it means that they abdicate these in their intimate relations...It takes someone strong to submit, it does not make one less submissive because they can direct their own life. Every dominant has what they consider the ideal submissive sort, some get incredibly turned on that a powerful person would choose to submit to them (my Daddy loves this). It is not a power exchange unless there is something to exchange

gypsygrl -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/26/2006 11:00:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied quote: The argument then becomes a definitional problem, but theres another thread for that. lol And we don't want to go there! I can't argue with you there! :)

WetHotGoddess -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/26/2006 11:07:49 AM)
*I know no one really gives a damn about my opinion but here it is anyway.* Mentors are not personal trainers. It is fine to have friends of all persuasions and to share ideas with them but a mentor is someone who you look up to, as an example. How can a dom set an example to a sub about submission, or vice-versa? How can a sub be an example on how a dom should behave? Sure, they can give opinions and views, but that is all. *Mentors are peers.Mentors are those who have more knowledge and experience in a given subject.* *If you wish to learn how to switch, then get mentored by someone from both sides of the coin.*

Dnomyar -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/26/2006 11:13:42 AM)
It dosent matter if your a Dom/Dome, sub/slave, Mentor. You are only teaching from your prespective. Look at it as a starting point not as gospel.

juliaoceania -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/26/2006 11:28:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WetHotGoddess *I know no one really gives a damn about my opinion but here it is anyway.* Mentors are not personal trainers. It is fine to have friends of all persuasions and to share ideas with them but a mentor is someone who you look up to, as an example. How can a dom set an example to a sub about submission, or vice-versa? How can a sub be an example on how a dom should behave? Sure, they can give opinions and views, but that is all. *Mentors are peers.Mentors are those who have more knowledge and experience in a given subject.* *If you wish to learn how to switch, then get mentored by someone from both sides of the coin.* I have been mentored by professors outside of my discipline, they were not my peers nor would they ever become so... a few were friendly to me and did things such as invite me places and to their homes.. but I never felt I was their peer. They did give me advice, guidance, and these sorts of things in relationship to things they were knowledgeable about, even if they were not in the same discipline as myself, I still got a lot out of that for later. I view this as the same thing as a submissive getting mentored by a dominant or vice versa... each has something to offer the other...Just like professors that were not in my department were able to mentor me in things that they knew that were general to all college students that planned on going on with their academic careers... I see this something analogous to the discussion here... I will reiterate, not all people need mentoring anyways... some get by just fine without it at all. I have never has a mentor in WIITWD and I do not feel as though this has led to unhappiness on my part or lessens my submissiveness in any way

emdoub -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/26/2006 11:56:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WetHotGoddess a mentor is someone who you look up to, as an example. How can a dom set an example to a sub about submission, or vice-versa? How can a sub be an example on how a dom should behave? Sure, they can give opinions and views, but that is all. Every dominant I've ever respected has known how to submit. Every submissive I've respected has been able to dominate when the occasion called for it. Mono-faceted people mostly don't impress me. When you get right down to it, all training and mentoring is opinions and views. I don't see how that gets in the way of anything. quote: *Mentors are peers.Mentors are those who have more knowledge and experience in a given subject.* Yup - a mentor should have more experience, and a willingness to share what they've learned. IMO, a "peer" is someone who is at the same level of experience - so being mentored by a peer would be pretty pointless. Do please note that I make a strong distinction between mentoring and training. Someone I mentor is expected to listen to what I have to say and then do what suits them - I'm not their boss, I'm their mentor. Someone I train is going to do it my way - at least, in what I'm training them in. Have I taken training from submissives? I sure have - a sub taught me a fair bit about rough carpentry a while back. Have I trained other dominants? Sure - and, in that training, I was The Boss, and they did it my way. Did that make them my sub? Hardly - it made them my trainee, until I stood back and said "Yup - they've learned as much about singletail as I can teach 'em right now", and stopped training them. As I've said before, the orientation of the skilled is the least important factor in choosing a mentor - or a trainer. Midnight Writer

BitaTruble -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/26/2006 12:08:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hercuckslave hi all, I have been in the lifestyle for nearly 20 years, and have been collared slave to my Mistress for nearly 6. Lately I have heard quite a bit about this Dom or that Domme mentoring this sub or that slave. That strikes me as odd. In my humble opinion, Doms and subs are totally different species. Though i have tried, there is no way that I can truly understand what makes a Domme tick, understand her, get inside her head. It is also my opinion that a Dom/me can't truly understand what goes on inside a sub/slave's mind. I can see a Dom/me protecting, teaching, guiding a submissive that they may not consider long term for them, but in my opinion, only another sub/slave can "mentor" another sub/slave. Only another slave can fully understand another slave's needs, desires, dreams, fears, hopes, aspirations, bar bill (I just stuck that in to see if you were reading). Was wondering what others's takes on this was. M's m Bar bill aside (yes, I did read hehe) I do understand your thinking on this issue. I have a 'village' sort of mentality on the subject of mentoring and when I'm asked for advice, generally, will share what I know then suggest they seek out other opinions as well. While I tend to agree that if you are struggling with one side or the other in your orientation, someone of that same orientation can probably be 'more' helpful to you but (no, that's not a subbie butt) often someone on the other side is 'more' objective and can help you see things in a different light. I've always felt that having a number of people to whom you can turn is best - at least two or three of your own orientation and two or three on the other side to fill in gaps and such. Forums, such as these, are wonderful places to get mentorship. If someone says something which is of particular interest to you, most people aren't going to have a problem if you drop them a note on the other side to engage in some one-on-one on whatever subject has peaked your interest. Outside of forums and such, toes-to-toes mentoring with a 'group' is also helpful when there is diversity among the group. Two heads are better than one and all that! If you stick to one-on-one, then you run the risk of becoming someone's clone rather than being the unique individual which you are with your own thoughts and ideas gleened from various sources .. then taking what works for 'you' and leaving the rest behind. Celeste

Hercuckslave -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/26/2006 9:47:01 PM)
thanks for all the great feedback. i think the impulse for me to post comes from what some people mentioned....i often see that the dom's "mentoring" the subs are really just working the situation to their advantage. oppotunity. i also think that the difference lies in the difference between "training" and "mentoring". yes, a dom can train a sub (deep throating and anal sex included), but when it comes to helping the new person grow to understand their inner workings and selves, i still believe that another slave is the appropriate mentor/role model. whewwww. ok. i'm done. M's m

ImpGrrl -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/29/2006 1:31:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hercuckslave i am not saying that knowlege can't be gained in all situations. yes, a sub can learn a great deal from a dom. i am speaking to the process of "mentoring". and i just don't think that a Dom can' mentor a sub/slave. a Dom can train a sub/slave, a dom can offer opinions, share experiences, listen to and offer advice, but as for a mentor...i think only another sub/slave is an appropriate mentor for another sub/slave. lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment....does anyone here think that a slave can mentor a dom? M's m I think that anyone with the experience to back it up can mentor anyone else in that experience. I think that someone seeking a particular experience should choose someone who has had that experience. I also don't believe that people have just one mentor. Taken out of BDSM context - if I want to learn to knit, I'm not going to choose a knitting mentor who just enjoys wearing sweaters. BUT - that sweater-wearer may be a former knitter.

ImpGrrl -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/29/2006 1:34:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 actually, i've always found it odd that submissives are mentored by other submissives or slaves. just because someone shares my particular lifestyle orientation, doesn't mean that they will understand me, my particular ways or needs or beliefs, or even be able to help me along in my journey. since Dominants naturally guide and lead, that is who i would naturally look to for a Mentor. long before i became his slave, my Master served as my Mentor, and he helped me a great deal...taught me how to look within and gain that self-knowledge and identity that is so crucial before taking the first steps in any sort of lifestyle relationship. like a good Mentor, he didn't force his own ways or views upon me, and didn't guide me to one particular way or the other. He was just 100% supportive and always there for advice and guidance. looking back, i cannot fathom how another submissive could have helped me at this time. by our very nature, submissives do not naturally lead or take authorative positions, while they can commiserate (sp?) they cannot, imo, help one take that extra step and actually guide one through one's path. "Submissives do not naturally lead"? Speak for yourself...I know many many submissive/slaves who are very brilliant leaders, teachers, mentors, etc.

ImpGrrl -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/29/2006 1:45:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WetHotGoddess *How can a dom set an example to a sub about submission, or vice-versa? How can a sub be an example on how a dom should behave? Sure, they can give opinions and views, but that is all.* An s-type who has skills a d-type should have - good people-management skills, for instance, either from the business world or from service as a butler-type - can certainly teach a d-type a thing or two. If you look at the play aspects, sadists/skilled tops are not only d-types. A d-type with good experience of skills an s-type wants - through religious training, for instance, or perhaps through their own past as an s-type - can mentor an s-type in these things. quote: *Mentors are peers.* I am a slave - but I am still peer to anyone whom I have not given authority, or anyone who has not given authority to me. quote: *Mentors are those who have more knowledge and experience in a given subject.* This I agree with 100%. But that doesn't mean that s-types don't have the experience necessary to mentor d-types in some things, or vice versa. quote: If you wish to learn how to switch, then get mentored by someone from both sides of the coin. That's something entirely different.

WhiteRadiance -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/30/2006 12:17:12 PM)
To me, a Dom/me mentoring a sub is like an sculptor mentoring a magician. Everyone has an opinion, but what artist wants to seek the advice of a mechanic? What welder is mentored by a physician?

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/30/2006 2:53:09 PM)
"Mentor" is a title I made up so I can get newbies to play with me and think I'm teaching them something. After awhile our intimate mentoring conversations will be going something like, "I feel so connected to you." Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.

dreamscape -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/30/2006 3:31:01 PM)
Sorry, but if that's true, it is pathetic.

emdoub -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/30/2006 4:33:54 PM)
Um... it was a joke. Like the funny kind, only different.

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/30/2006 4:59:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamscape Sorry, but if that's true, it is pathetic. Dream, of course it is not true, but many of us have been talking about this abusive technique on here for a long time. Forgive me if I become a little sarcastic when I see the subject again.

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Dom/mes mentoring subs/slaves (10/30/2006 5:01:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: emdoub Um... it was a joke. Like the funny kind, only different. Or above you.

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