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Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 10/22/2006 7:55:52 PM

juliaoceania

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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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JERUSALEM - The Israeli army used phosphorous artillery shells against Hezbollah guerrilla targets during their war in Lebanon this summer, an Israeli Cabinet minister said Sunday, confirming Lebanese allegations for the first time

Until now,

Israel had said it only used the weapons — which cause severe chemical burns — to mark targets or territory, according to Israeli media reports. The Geneva Conventions ban using white phosphorous against civilians or civilian areas and Israel said the weapons were used solely against military targets.

I believe we used the same reasoning behind using phosphorus in Fallujah, and I thought these weapons were illegal...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061023/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_phosphorous_bombs;_ylt=Ag0ro3.7fqv1FR1dDmXB9hW9IxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/22/2006 7:56:36 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 1

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 10/22/2006 8:04:54 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

GO ISRAEL!

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 2

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 10/22/2006 8:25:14 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

The answer is right there in the text of your post.

"The Geneva Conventions ban using white phosphorous against civilians or civilian areas and Israel said the weapons were used solely against military targets."

WP has been used for decades to produce smoke to screen movement by obscuring the vision of the enemy while you manuver. The GC says it is not to be used as a anti personel weapon, not that it cannot be used at all.
Using it to screen your movement is perfectly acceptable.

You're behind the last bit of cover and concealment between you and the first building in town, it's 400 yards to cover and they are already set up waiting for your butt. What you gonna do.
Artillery guys I want smoke right on the edge of town grid 987497.
1 round of artillery smoke pops and it's long by 200 yards
Drop 300
1 more round drops in 100 yards short of where you want it
Add 100 and fire for effect
6 guns fire smoke rounds based on the fireing solution.

Now that one smoke round that dropped in long by 200 yards kills a few folks in town, and they scream you're using chemical weapons.
If the intent was to drop in smoke so you could get from point A to point B without being seen and shot as easily, then the GC has not been violated. The effectiveness of WP as an anti personel weapon is pretty lame compared to the rounds they make for killing folks. Now as a means of punishing the enemy through horrible deaths and the associated terror, there could be a case made if someone were messed up in the head enough to take the chance of being tried as a war criminal.

The mear use of WP in war is not a crime.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 3

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 10/22/2006 8:31:51 PM

sissifytoserve

Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline

Sounds like the typical arab hating Zionist.

It disgusts me how people treat the Israeli government and they can "do no wrong".

They are probably the same people having their CHILDREN write messages on bombs and missles
that are going to kill other children.

Some REAL Traditional Jews will disagree with them.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

http://www.nkusa.org/

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

< Message edited by sissifytoserve -- 10/22/2006 8:33:26 PM >

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(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 4

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 10/22/2006 8:32:32 PM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

JERUSALEM - The Israeli army used phosphorous artillery shells against Hezbollah guerrilla targets during their war in Lebanon this summer, an Israeli Cabinet minister said Sunday, confirming Lebanese allegations for the first time

Until now,

Israel had said it only used the weapons — which cause severe chemical burns — to mark targets or territory, according to Israeli media reports. The Geneva Conventions ban using white phosphorous against civilians or civilian areas and Israel said the weapons were used solely against military targets.

I believe we used the same reasoning behind using phosphorus in Fallujah, and I thought these weapons were illegal...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061023/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_phosphorous_bombs;_ylt=Ag0ro3.7fqv1FR1dDmXB9hW9IxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

What's equally as bad is all the cluster bombs they dropped in the last few days after they knew absolutely they were going to pull out.

If there's one thing that continues to boggle my mind, it's how that little-ass country has such a hold over our political system. Best thing we could ever do is just never intervene and let them eliminate each other - We'd all be better off without them.

- R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 5

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 10/22/2006 9:22:13 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

JERUSALEM - The Israeli army used phosphorous artillery shells against Hezbollah guerrilla targets during their war in Lebanon this summer, an Israeli Cabinet minister said Sunday, confirming Lebanese allegations for the first time

Until now,

Israel had said it only used the weapons — which cause severe chemical burns — to mark targets or territory, according to Israeli media reports. The Geneva Conventions ban using white phosphorous against civilians or civilian areas and Israel said the weapons were used solely against military targets.

I believe we used the same reasoning behind using phosphorus in Fallujah, and I thought these weapons were illegal...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061023/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_phosphorous_bombs;_ylt=Ag0ro3.7fqv1FR1dDmXB9hW9IxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

What's equally as bad is all the cluster bombs they dropped in the last few days after they knew absolutely they were going to pull out.

If there's one thing that continues to boggle my mind, it's how that little-ass country has such a hold over our political system. Best thing we could ever do is just never intervene and let them eliminate each other - We'd all be better off without them.

- R

Ranger, and it's not just Israel. We need to start shedding a whole bunch of countries that call themselves "Allies".
And stop cutting "foreign aid" checks!

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 6

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 10/22/2006 11:10:01 PM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

If there's one thing that continues to boggle my mind, it's how that little-ass country has such a hold over our political system.

Well that'd be them Bored Again Armageddonists making sure that the End of Days isn't delayed because of human frailty, like reason or compassion. God helps those who help Him keep it extra hot in the Holy Lands. If people don't do their part, the Second Coming could be a No Show.

Z.

0 0

< Message edited by Zensee -- 10/22/2006 11:13:28 PM >

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 7

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 10/22/2006 11:19:00 PM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

Ranger, and it's not just Israel. We need to start shedding a whole bunch of countries that call themselves "Allies".
And stop cutting "foreign aid" checks!

I'm with you Popeye.....instead of seeing that cash sent abroad to fund war and ruthless dictators, I'd rather see everyone in our country get a free education. I'm just tired of seeing the Arabs and Jews fight all the time at mine and yours expense. I think we should tell them to shake hands and get along or we're going to cut them off.

- R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 8

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 10/22/2006 11:28:29 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

It was widely reported at the time (though maybe not on US news) that Israel were attacking civilians with phosphurous weapons. It was also widely reported that Israel was attacking civilian areas where there were no Hezzbollah presence. In the days of smart bombs it gets more difficult to say that civilians weren't the target when so many apparent smart weapons go off target. Or are smart weapons that useless? One of the organisations reporting this was the New York based Human Rights watch and Amnesty International and there were even mumblings from the Red Cross (who like to stay neutral and not criticize.). Having watched several complete American news reports, ABC and CBS on European TV I noticed they never mentioned such things though their reporters seemed to barely venture into Lebanon unless it was with Israeli soldiers.

You just have to witness Israel policy in Gaza to see that Israel is capable of targeting innocent civilians. They target innocent civilians there almost on a daily basis. As for phophrous shells against Hezzbollah, it's not the worst thing they have done.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/22/2006 11:49:41 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 9

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 10/23/2006 10:30:43 AM

philosophy

Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

What would be the US response to, say, Hezbollah or Hamas using wp weaponary in order to create a smoke screen as suggested by Archer? Would it be different to the response to the IDF using it? And if so, would that be simple hypocrisy? The sort of hypocrisy that allows terrorists to make an almost credible case for the US being a legitimate target?

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 10

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 11/4/2006 7:26:21 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

JERUSALEM - The Israeli army used phosphorous artillery shells against Hezbollah guerrilla targets during their war in Lebanon this summer, an Israeli Cabinet minister said Sunday, confirming Lebanese allegations for the first time

Until now,

Israel had said it only used the weapons — which cause severe chemical burns — to mark targets or territory, according to Israeli media reports. The Geneva Conventions ban using white phosphorous against civilians or civilian areas and Israel said the weapons were used solely against military targets.

I believe we used the same reasoning behind using phosphorus in Fallujah, and I thought these weapons were illegal...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061023/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_phosphorous_bombs;_ylt=Ag0ro3.7fqv1FR1dDmXB9hW9IxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

What's equally as bad is all the cluster bombs they dropped in the last few days after they knew absolutely they were going to pull out.

If there's one thing that continues to boggle my mind, it's how that little-ass country has such a hold over our political system. Best thing we could ever do is just never intervene and let them eliminate each other - We'd all be better off without them.

- R

Ranger, and it's not just Israel. We need to start shedding a whole bunch of countries that call themselves "Allies".
And stop cutting "foreign aid" checks!

Popeye:
There is an interesting book called "I was an economic hit man" it details how forign aid works... who makes the money and who takes the heat.
You might want to take a look at it .

thompson

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 11

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 11/4/2006 7:31:48 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

Hello A/all,

The United States was criticized for using White Phosphorous against Iraq during Desert Storm, etc.

The forests in Vietnam are not safe to harvest trees, or in many parts, even go walking into because of the vast amount of bombs and metal embedded in the trees from US bombing.

I guess I say this because I would be the first to point out to people in the US complaining about Isreal using WP that people in glass houses should not throw stones.

I have a problem with Isreal being in Lebanon. I have a problem with the existence of Isreal, considering how it was put into place, but I do accept the fact that it does exist.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 12

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 11/4/2006 7:36:45 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

So, you are beset on all sides, your entire surroundings are not of your doing.............

You have to live in the world today, regardless of the pronouncements of the United Nations some 50 years prior, The Balfour declaration or any such asswipe......

But, we are concerned wholly and totally with these things, as I said, and I repeat, China will do what they want when they want when China percieves it is in their best interest and they aint too much of a givin a fuck kinda guys about your influence..........

Korea has been sent to the tables to discuss the problems with their masters
LOL.........

those of thousand years have influence, those of tender years are only tolerated, in a benign way..................

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 13

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 11/5/2006 1:47:02 AM

GreySaber

Posts: 46
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline

I have no opinion on the use of WP, but I would like to ask if ANYONE can quote the part of the Geneva Convention which bans it. Has there been another Geneva Convention? I'm under the impression that the GC only deals with the treatment of prisoners of war, and that the majority of the rules of war concerning weaponry is dealt with in the Hague Accord, which, to my memory, does not address the use of fire weapons.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 14

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 11/6/2006 9:52:02 PM

MasterKalif

Posts: 648
Joined: 5/24/2004
Status: offline

I agree with Sinergy...but going back to what Juliaoceania said, I am not surprised by the hipocrisy of Israel and its treatment of supposed "enemy targets" which turned out to be indefenseless people....Im still mad as to why the Lebanese army didn't intervene if at least symbolically, as a show of presence to defend their own people in the south....
we should not be surprised by this little country's action after the massacre of 40 + children at Qana....this infamy will stay with me forever, and nothing can justify that irresponsible action.

(in reply to GreySaber)

Post #: 15

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 11/6/2006 11:14:16 PM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

War does seem to be the great equaliser when it comes to savagery and stupidity. Using human shields is as disgusting as firing in spite of them.

Not meaning to pick on Israel but in addition to WP they may have been using Enriched Uranium weapons in Lebanon too.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article1935945.ece

Maybe this is thread-worthy in itself.

What exactly caused the spike in EU found at several bomb craters is not known, It could be a part of the warhead or, more likely, used as a penetrator for “bunker busters”. Depleted Uranium (DU) is used on amour piercing shells and the resultant dust has contaminated much of Iraq. As poisonous as DU is, the enriched form is much deadlier.

quote:

"When a uranium penetrator hits a hard target, the particles of the explosion are very long-lived in the environment," Dr Busby said yesterday. "They spread over long distances. They can be inhaled into the lungs. The military really seem to believe that this stuff is not as dangerous as it is." Yet why would Israel use such a weapon when its targets - in the case of Khiam, for example - were only two miles from the Israeli border? The dust ignited by DU munitions can be blown across international borders, just as the chlorine gas used in attacks by both sides in the First World War often blew back on its perpetrators.

It is utterly unconscionable to use weapons whose toxicity is measured in thousands and tens of thousands of years. Merely possessing them should be considered a crime against perpetuity.

Z.

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to MasterKalif)

Post #: 16

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 11/7/2006 4:54:14 AM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

JERUSALEM - The Israeli army used phosphorous artillery shells against Hezbollah guerrilla targets during their war in Lebanon this summer, an Israeli Cabinet minister said Sunday, confirming Lebanese allegations for the first time

Until now,

Israel had said it only used the weapons — which cause severe chemical burns — to mark targets or territory, according to Israeli media reports. The Geneva Conventions ban using white phosphorous against civilians or civilian areas and Israel said the weapons were used solely against military targets.

I believe we used the same reasoning behind using phosphorus in Fallujah, and I thought these weapons were illegal...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061023/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_phosphorous_bombs;_ylt=Ag0ro3.7fqv1FR1dDmXB9hW9IxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

The only rule in war is to kill or be killed. The objective in war is to win. Sure, there have been humanitary efforts and methods of honor in killing the enemy with less painiful weapons. For example, we use the bullets known as the Full Metal Jacket. However, the bottom line is that war has never been able to look pretty. You have to kill or be killed and you can't feel sorry for the enemies who try to kill you.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 17

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 11/7/2006 5:01:56 AM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

The only rule in war is to kill or be killed. The objective in war is to win. Sure, there have been humanitary efforts and methods of honor in killing the enemy with less painiful weapons. For example, we use the bullets known as the Full Metal Jacket. However, the bottom line is that war has never been able to look pretty. You have to kill or be killed and you can't feel sorry for the enemies who try to kill you.

The decision to use excessive or especially cruel weapons as a strategy, especially against civilian areas, is not made in the heat of battle but in air conditioned offices. Don't make it sound like a do-or-die, battlefield improvisation.

Z.

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 18

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 11/7/2006 9:12:08 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

JERUSALEM - The Israeli army used phosphorous artillery shells against Hezbollah guerrilla targets during their war in Lebanon this summer, an Israeli Cabinet minister said Sunday, confirming Lebanese allegations for the first time

Until now,

Israel had said it only used the weapons — which cause severe chemical burns — to mark targets or territory, according to Israeli media reports. The Geneva Conventions ban using white phosphorous against civilians or civilian areas and Israel said the weapons were used solely against military targets.

I believe we used the same reasoning behind using phosphorus in Fallujah, and I thought these weapons were illegal...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061023/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_phosphorous_bombs;_ylt=Ag0ro3.7fqv1FR1dDmXB9hW9IxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

The only rule in war is to kill or be killed. The objective in war is to win. Sure, there have been humanitary efforts and methods of honor in killing the enemy with less painiful weapons. For example, we use the bullets known as the Full Metal Jacket. However, the bottom line is that war has never been able to look pretty. You have to kill or be killed and you can't feel sorry for the enemies who try to kill you.

FangsNfeet:
I do not know how many wars you have been in but the ones I have been in the only purpose was to fuck their women and take their dope.
Which has pretty much been the justification of all wars.
The purpose of the "full metal jacket" bullets you speak of is to reduce the number of deaths in war (by reducing the amount of trauma inflicted by the gunshot wound) and to cause more of your enemy to be involved in careing for their wounded. It takes a minimum of 5 men to care for a wounded soldier...dead bodies just wait for graves registration to show up after the fighting is over.

thompson

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 19

RE: Israel used phosphorous bombs in Lebanon - 11/7/2006 11:19:39 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Dead is dead. Does it really matter how you get them there?
Like Archie Bunker said one time about gun control; "Would it make you feel any better if we pushed 'dem out of windows, Meathead?"

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 20

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