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Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 12:17:36 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		What does it mean when someone (in my case male Dominants) says "no expectations?"

Several times in the past couple of years, I've  engaged with both alternative lifestyle and vanilla men on the assumption that there weren't any expectations, only to find out that there were, in fact, expectations, particularly when I start seeing someone else. I sometimes wonder if this phrase is "guy speak" for something I'm not getting.

Also, and more specific to bd/sm and D/s, is there a point of no return with no expectations explorations?  Sometimes I feel kind of cheesy and sleezy discussing very personal matters, and even playing, with more than one Dominant at a time.  In the past, this has led me to cut off discussions with others way too soon, and focus on just one Dominant then find myself increasingly attached without really intending to.  Having thought about this problem, I'm trying not to make this mistake again, but am having difficulty.  It feels wrong to me. 

On the other hand, I don't want to inadvertantly get myself into another inappropriate relationship, and I dont know how to do that without serious explorations before committing.  Plus, I don't want to get into a situation of "implied expectations."

Has anyone else experienced this conflict?  If so, have you found a way around it?  Am I even making sense?





< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 10/1/2006 12:41:59 PM >
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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 12:30:50 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

What does it mean when someone (in my case male Dominants) says "no expectations?"




Hello A/all,

I will take a crack at this.  This is not a line I have used, but my initial off-the-cuff feeling about it is that the person wants a "friend with benefits" sort of scenario.  It might be their way of telling you not to expect any sort of commitment from them should you get involved with them.

I personally think everybody has expectations.  They expect something will work out, wont work out, will happen the way they want it to happen, wont happen that way, or whatever. 

What I would wonder if somebody said that to me is whether they are actually aware of their expectations, or are they blissfully blessed with a lack of self-awareness.

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 12:33:59 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		Sounds like the good old double standard to me. You are not allowed to have any expectations of them while they are allowed to be insecure about the possibility you won't be available anymore and whine if you see another guy.

It isn't a universal guy code; sp,e guys just say it without meaning it just like there are gals who say stuff like "I'm low maintenance" or "I am not a psycho" and it just ain't true.


< Message edited by happypervert -- 10/1/2006 12:39:27 PM >

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 12:57:47 PM   
KnightofMists


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Status: offline 		I believe the no expectation is sometimes a lazy way to say, Realistic and open expectations!  

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 1:00:27 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		What does it mean when someone (in my case male Dominants) says "no expectations?"

To be blunt, in my experience when this has been said by a male dominant to me it means that i should not expect anything off them but they can expect things from me. For example, they may play with anyone they like because i should have no expectation of monogamy but i cant do the same.
Has anyone else experienced this conflict?  If so, have you found a way around it?  Am I even making sense?
Yes, of course. There really is no way round it when you feel the way you do.


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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 1:06:01 PM   
Frank01


Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline 		I would use it in the context of women who use fantasies to set criteria in partners.

< Message edited by Frank01 -- 10/1/2006 1:07:15 PM >

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 1:06:23 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Ah, yes.  Sampling the buffet.

The thing that separates us from the vanillas is, simply 'what we do'.  But there are a million ways to have that expressed.  It's not as easy as delineating 'good kisser' from 'poor kisser'.  Everybody has their 'way', and you need to know whether my way is better than his way.

I think it's natural, and expected.  I cut down on it personally by being a guy.  Let me rephrase that.  My choices are fewer because there aren't as many horny women running loose than apparently there are men.  I say 'apparently' because at the same time I, as a guy, don't look for the easy way even if it presents itself.

Let's see, so if I'm obviously not a woman, yet don't have the usual 'guy' traits (other than the obvious dangly one).  Hmmm.

Back on point, though.  It does get complicated while you're sampling the buffet because if your encounters are close together it feels like cheating, especially because (I'm assuming) your 'dates' progress to a certain level of intimacy (if only partial (or more) nudity) that you wouldn't expect in the vanilla world.  In short, you feel a bit like you're acting like a guy.

How thrilling for you!

Jeff

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 1:56:04 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		No expectations is one of those generic catch all terms that sounds good when the brain says it but human being do not function with their brain.

I have usually seen it two ways, one, when a person is agreeing/wooing another person and pretty much stating I will do whatever you want in order to move forward or the second, a more casual scenario. The brain is logically trying to deal with a situation that the irrational human being can never really do. The truth is we always have expectations in EVERYTHING and it really is a matter of how important they are to us and not if we have them or not.

I think people who say no expectations mean it when they say it but it is just flawed from the start. For the OP example, they may say it just to get you or not promise you anything but they also are still human being and do not want competition or lose you before they want to lose you. My experience with "friends with benefits" is, it is all rosey until they find out there are other friends.



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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 4:27:28 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I believe the no expectation is sometimes a lazy way to say, Realistic and open expectations!  

Open expectations....now that's something to chew on....

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 4:30:27 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

What does it mean when someone (in my case male Dominants) says "no expectations?"




I would interpret this as they just want no strings attached sex.

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 4:40:55 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		I interpret "no expectations" to mean that I make my own decisions regarding where things go when I first meet someone. The meet can end at coffee, or it can go on to dinner. Sometimes, it's gone on to play after dinner. Sometimes that's it.

And then, there was this one time that it went from drinks, to dinner to play to a three year relationship. That's the best!!

Besides that though, when I walk into a meet, I don't go in hoping that he's going to be the man of my dreams. I go in expecting to meet a man I've been talking to - that's it.

To me, it leaves the field wide open. We can decide there's no chemistry. We can discover that we can barely wait till we get someplace more private. None of it matters because initially, I'm only there to say hi. I have no expectations of what will happen past that first hello. Since that's my definition of "no expectations," I've approached meeting people from the position that the other person feels the same way. And if he doesn't, then it's his responsibility to tell me that he does indeed have expectations. If he says nothing, then his ire if I don't live up to expecations he says he doesn't have is solely his issue - not mine.

There's only been one person that I've ever found that had the same view. We've been together those three years I was talking about. But then, in addition to discovering that he did indeed "have no expectations," I discovered that he also says exactly what he means and means exactly what he says, so there's never any guess work involved regarding what he's thinking. If he said he walks in having no expectations, then that's what he does.

He goes in to meet someone and allows the evening and their conversation determine what's next. He doesn't go in with an agenda already filled out and waiting for her approval.

To me, that's what "no expectations" means...both from my point of view and from my Master's.

juliet


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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 4:50:36 PM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

On the other hand, I don't want to inadvertantly get myself into another inappropriate relationship, and I dont know how to do that without serious explorations before committing.  Plus, I don't want to get into a situation of "implied expectations."

Has anyone else experienced this conflict?  If so, have you found a way around it?  Am I even making sense?


I have not experienced this conflict because I have never been into this sort of exploration. I can tell you that you should define what you mean by "no expectations" to whomever you are seeing. It is like any other term you use in this life, if two people are not using it the same way there will be a failure to communicate.

If you have set the terms up on both sides as to what "no expectations" means, and then one side or the other does not honor this, well you set your boundaries... just move on. It does not seem very complicated to me or that confusing to me... perhaps I am missing something though.

It is very hard for people to keep an ongoing intimate friendship from progressing into more eventually, one or the other will usually start feeling more as time goes by... in this case the people you involve yourself feel more than you do, that is their responsibility if the boundaries are there...

My real question about this is how much more than friendship and sex/play do you really give to these men? Do you give them intimacy? Are there boundaries that you are fudging that cause them to "expect" more... because if this keeps happening, you are probably partially at fault for this situation. It has become a pattern.. perhaps deep down you want more too, or it is some kind of ego fulfillment going on that these men say no "expectations" and yet you can get them to fall for you and want more with you? Since you seem to really want answers I thought I would throw out a few things for you to chew on... maybe has nothing to do with your situation though...

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/1/2006 4:57:36 PM >

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 5:08:21 PM   
BenignPlague


Posts: 52
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Status: offline 		Like any use of language, "no expectations" means something different to anyone; you really want answers? Ask him, his definition is the only one relevant to your life.

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 5:36:01 PM   
Sirandlittle1


Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		BDSM begins with communication. One persons idea of no expectation can vary to anothers, as the replies demonstrate here.
So your best bet is to ask the speaker, what exactly do THEY mean by no expectations.

You, as a free agent, can dictate whatever your after, and a tasting the buffet is a great way to go.
Go read The Ethical Slut. Its got great advice on how to be open, honest and not fall into old habits of nailing yourself too soon to someones deck.

As a single person, there is a great deal of pressure to 'partner' up with a play partner. Some of this will be coming from your own set of needs, standards. Maybe, its time to have a look at your own morals, codes of conduct, call it what you will.
Personally, i found, that "im not comitted to you, i will be seeing other people, thats how it is, is that ok with you?" sufficed. But it didnt stop the 'issue' from creaping in when they called, and you were with another. Some cant accept that, and that's ok. They left.
Later, if by some chance, you feel you want to commit to them, do it then. Not now.
littleone


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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 5:38:53 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		Well, yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to define it which is why I posed the question.  It seems to mean different things at different times.  I like the suggested phrase "realistic and open expectations" because its more to the point.  And, julietsierra, the approach you describe is what I've been moving towards.  A first meet is what it is.  A play session is just that.

msrjx, I haven't been doing all that much sampling, precisely because of the reason you describe: it feels like cheating.  But, to not sample a bit means I'm making really important decisions on very sketchy grounds.  And, I've been there/done that/don't want to do it again.  When I first started out, I didn't sample at all, got involved in a ltr, and it worked out badly for everyone involved.  Its that kind of behavior I am seeking to change.

juliaoceania,  you have me feeling a bit on the defensive.  I was really looking for the comments of others who have felt this conflict.  And, since you don't seem to have much sympathy for the conflict itself....Am I doing something to invite this behavior?  Perhaps. I experiment with submission after doing quite a bit of discussion, negotiation and on-line role play.   It rarely gets to real life interaction.  Has it become a pattern such that I should be worried that deep down I want more?  In a general way, I do want more but not necessarily with anyone I play with so that's not really an issue. My goal is to explore first.   Am I on an ego trip looking to trap men with my feminine wiles?  Gawd, wouldnt that be funny!  (You haven't met or seen me so you don't know how funny this is.) On some subconscious level, I could be out to conquer Tokyo.

But, thank you all for posting.  It's given me alot to think about.:)




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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 6:00:55 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

juliaoceania,  you have me feeling a bit on the defensive.  I was really looking for the comments of others who have felt this conflict.  And, since you don't seem to have much sympathy for the conflict itself....Am I doing something to invite this behavior?  Perhaps. I experiment with submission after doing quite a bit of discussion, negotiation and on-line role play.   It rarely gets to real life interaction.  Has it become a pattern such that I should be worried that deep down I want more?  In a general way, I do want more but not necessarily with anyone I play with so that's not really an issue. My goal is to explore first.   Am I on an ego trip looking to trap men with my feminine wiles?  Gawd, wouldnt that be funny!  (You haven't met or seen me so you don't know how funny this is.) On some subconscious level, I could be out to conquer Tokyo.


You assigned motivations to me that were not there...

I have done things in my life to feed my ego... we all do whether we admit it or not, I was NOT insulting you. I was trying to get you to think about things in a different way, about the role we all play in our own reality.

When I have a recurring and unwanted theme in my life replaying I try to find out what I am doing to make that happen... the root of it lies within me, not external to me... I am not perfect, I am a work in progress. I thought perhaps you may find answers to your questions not in the men you are dating, but within yourself

And btw, I see nothing wrong with sexual exploration or knowing you want casual sex partners and play partners... it is just different from my needs, but not anything morally wrong with it as long as you are satisfied... I am not unsympathetic...and I wish you luck in meeting these needs...smiles


< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/1/2006 6:02:05 PM >

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/1/2006 11:20:03 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I can't see how you can be in a relationship that would be devoid of expectations. Why would someone get in to a relationship without expecting something? Even in a relationship without expectations?
It sounds to me like you are "expecting" something that doesn't exist.  

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/2/2006 12:46:50 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
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Status: offline 		The only time "no expectations" is acceptable when uttered to or by me, is for a first meeting, where I've never met the person, and am not sure I'll want to sit and engage him for more than 5 courteous minutes.
After that, I expect open communication, and openness to a relationship, should one ensue.  Otherwise, he can find himself a no expectations girl elsewhere.   M

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/2/2006 5:46:23 AM   
Smythe


Posts: 369
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

The only time "no expectations" is acceptable when uttered to or by me, is for a first meeting, where I've never met the person, and am not sure I'll want to sit and engage him for more than 5 courteous minutes.
After that, I expect open communication, and openness to a relationship, should one ensue. Otherwise, he can find himself a no expectations girl elsewhere. M




I agree with this. "No Expectations" is a short term approach that gives 2 people a chance to see the potential of a possible relationship. it can last 1,2 meetings at the most. People still approach first meetings *with* expectations...but for 1 or 2 meetings it's like a time out! AFter that, everyone has expectations, and the miminal assumption that they will be addressed.

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RE: Expectations.... - 10/2/2006 6:18:28 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I think that if you're *exploring* it may means that there *may* be the chance that whatever you're doing *may* lead to something else/more.  I think it would be pretty difficult for anyone to have *no expectations* completely.

It also depends on WHAT you're exploring..........If it's a relationship, then it's naturally going to be at least a little loaded, if it's sensation and play and the other person is after that too, then the *loading* will be different.

If you're aware that the other person is *looking* then they really are going to have their particular search in mind, at least in some way. That's just human nature, regardless of bdsm.

I also think that sometimes we just aren't aware of what signals we are giving out despite what we actually say.  Coupled with this, we have the ability to *tune out* things we don't really wish to hear.

agirl




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