Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse

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ownedgirlie -> Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/24/2006 8:02:12 PM)
We often read about those who have suffered from abusive pasts. I’ve seen several threads on this topic, asking about submissives who experienced abuse in their younger years, and if there is a correlation to their current submissiveness. I have also seen many comments about submissives who bring “baggage” into a D/s dynamic. Often times, this baggage is a result of such past abuse. I pose a different question in this thread, understanding that it may be personal and too close to home for some. But here goes, regardless: For those of you who have abuse in your history, have those experiences come to play in your D/s relationships? How have you experienced those ghosts, and how were you able to overcome it (if in fact you did)? In my case, for as much work as I have done on myself, my demons still rear their ugly heads from time to time. As deeply as I have come to submit to my Master, and as much as I have overcome within myself, every few months those demons seem to enter my mind and fill me with lies. I think there is a part of me that feels I do not deserve happiness, and so when I find myself happy at last, my subconscious tries to convince me otherwise. Sometimes I see it as it comes, and we can nip it in the bud. Other times it takes us both by surprise and can be brutal. It only lasts a short time, but it’s like a tornado blowing right through our relationship. I hate it, and he hates it. This is not a request for advice, as the more I analyze myself the more I understand the source and can continue working toward its resolution. This is an attempt to put the subject out there, for anyone else who may experience something similar. To submissives and slaves, Dominants and Masters, I invite you to talk about your experiences – have you had such tornados? Have you resolved them? What were your challenges and successes?

Sinergy -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/24/2006 9:31:06 PM)
Hello A/all, Your question is a bit puzzling, because it seems to ask whether there is a one to one correlation between abuse and their being involved in the Lifestyle. Perhaps. I dont know. My parents were rather heavy handed with their "discipline" techniques. When my kids were young, I was not at all. So I did not pass on the "beat your kids when they piss you off" paradigm to the next generation, thank whoever. On the other hand, I work with abuse survivors. It is a hell I would not wish on anybody. I guess my answer to you would be something like "It is not where you came from that matters, but what you choose to do with it that counts." But that sounds trite to me. You will find your own path to make it all work out the way it needs to work out. Be well, Sinergy

ownedgirlie -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/24/2006 9:59:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Your question is a bit puzzling, because it seems to ask whether there is a one to one correlation between abuse and their being involved in the Lifestyle. Actually, I didn't ask that. I mentioned that other threads have asked that, but that this thread was to ask how past abuses have affected current relationships. Indeed it is a hell, but we can only strive to move past it. Similarly to what you said. Not trite at all :)

DomKen -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/24/2006 11:22:24 PM)
I've done a lot of thinking on this over the years. I had physically and emotionally abusive parents and I'm dominant. What effect did my parents actions have on how I interact with others? Well one very simple and obvious one is that I can't stand to hear anyone being verbally demeaned and won't speak that way to anyone most especially someone I care for. Hearing a Dom/me call a submissive dumb, useless, worthless etc. makes me upset and I've had to stop going to play parties where couples who did this went. Another is never I punish or otherwise inflict pain when I'm angry or have had anything that affects my self control. I will not become a violent abuser of people I profess to love. I have to look for submissives that can understand that my physically distancing myself from them when I'm angry is not a jdugement upon them but limit I place upon myself. Beyond that of course is the occasional dark nights asking myself why I am the way I am.

mons -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 2:15:31 AM)
greetings i am not a submissve but i have spoke of my abuse and how it has made me who i am today? i went to therpay and found out that my being a domme is in direct presents of my being abuse. i use it shield never to be hurt again i was a child when it happen a sister did and made me do things a brother who abuse me as child a teen and as an adult which is a nightmare for me. i have many things i do too keep me busy and take care of the child how was hurt i have two large dollhouses each one had babies in them and one old woman and not one else these are mintautre not for kids they cost so much i bought a tea set for 5o doller made of china it is so well made i an scare i may break it, this helps me i know you do not want advice. i have times when mine pass comes and makes a appercane i have nightmare so bad my son can not come near me. i am terrified of the dark i sleep with everyone of the lights on and this is even day time i i am so scare th light will go out i think of it all of the timei know you do not want advice but i am telling you how it is for me every 2to 3 monthi have slept with the light on for so many years i do not remember when i started i dream of women abusing me my brother comes in my dream i make him leave it is hard to handle this and not to ask for advice is not good but you say no i will respect this but i am writing is response to your when they come back, once my brother came over my nephew had to go to the baselball game and i look at him with fear and scare so bad he knew not to leave i made him miss his game and i was upset about it an abuser will say things that are so nasty my brother once told me and my twin he abuse her alos but we need money for food and the kids i was hungry fo =r three days we were straving i never ask him for anything but i had to ask this time and will we did he came the night before he was to give su the money well he was drinking ( i never date or would pick a submissive who drink the smell makes me ill. but when he came he started up and was saying wierd thing then he said " someone is always asking for money but i and this is a quote i do not give money to whore who will not give me pussy. i am his sister and he said this to me infront of the childern i throw domething at him. he came back the next day with 5 dollars mind you he made 19 dollars an hour and that was the turning poist. i collect doll old barbies so i know then i would nver ask my abuser for another dime. i had peopel who wanted dolls i had five hundred oh i sold a stamp collection for 20 dollars but i have all of the things i sold back 10 fold we never ask him for anothet dime ever. that made me strong so strong and it should the kids how to make money now he is sick and want the kids who he curse and wish death to come see him. what a mess i remember things like this and when he got me in the night and when i was scare and he said i will sleep with you i was in shock i do not remember what happen to this day my docotr said i may never remember what he did he said it may be best not to remember it at all. that is my non advice but my thoughts and when they come back i fight to stay sane and real one thing i never have ever taken it out on my submissive never they did nothing to me oh what a rant sorry mons take care you need to talk to someone else oops adive sorry

ayasha -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 2:27:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie For those of you who have abuse in your history, have those experiences come to play in your D/s relationships? How have you experienced those ghosts, and how were you able to overcome it (if in fact you did)? one was physically abused by ex-husband, about 25 years ago. one can take formal punishment ( and play) without difficulty; but when it is discipline, and comes without much discussion or warning - then this one has 'wigged out' twice. It brought back the terrible fear one experienced with ex-husband. one is usually able to talk self down from it; and makes sure that the Master knows that this might occur - and no, one would never use that as an excuse to not be disciplined. It is just easier on this one when one knows what to expect.

julietsierra -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 2:37:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I've done a lot of thinking on this over the years. I had physically and emotionally abusive parents and I'm dominant. What effect did my parents actions have on how I interact with others? Well one very simple and obvious one is that I can't stand to hear anyone being verbally demeaned and won't speak that way to anyone most especially someone I care for. Hearing a Dom/me call a submissive dumb, useless, worthless etc. makes me upset and I've had to stop going to play parties where couples who did this went. Another is never I punish or otherwise inflict pain when I'm angry or have had anything that affects my self control. I will not become a violent abuser of people I profess to love. I have to look for submissives that can understand that my physically distancing myself from them when I'm angry is not a jdugement upon them but limit I place upon myself. Beyond that of course is the occasional dark nights asking myself why I am the way I am. Well, you've described my life in a nutshell. My Master operates in the same manner that you do. I don't know that it's a result, in his case, of past abuse, but it IS a personal philosophy of his that I greatly admire. All those things you describe fit me to a T. I can't tolerate being demeaned - even to the point that it took me a while to know that when he was laughing at something I said, it wasn't meant in a negative way. He's been angry at things happening around him before and even though I've offered, he absolutely refuses to use me to release whatever tension is hovering around inside of him. He doesn't punish - we talk. If he employed corporal punishment, I don't think I'd be able to distinguish between that and play, and unfortunately, anything that happened as play, would end up being read by me as punishment. So, it's a quiet life we lead in regard to so much of what I read as "normal" for folks out there but we like it just that way. The only drama we have in our lives is the drama that comes from good living, good times, and helping each other through difficult moments in positive ways. I know I sound like some pollyanna, but I don't think I could have it any other way and be happy. I don't want to find out. For the first time in my life, my world is consistent, and calm. As far as my demons - they're there. Except, I don't call them demons or monsters, because to do that makes them - and me - horrible. To me, they're the frightened little girl inside me who is having a temper tantrum because she's just scared. I do my best to put her at ease and help her to understand that she can depend on the adult me to keep her safe. It's why I try, most of the time, to be responsible for myself. I trust me. She trusts me. Fortunately for me, my Master likes how I handle her - and myself. He likes that I am self-reliant and he likes that I try, for the most part, to deal with my fears myself. He's there to listen, and listen he does, but he allows me to solve my problems because unless I do, I won't learn the lessons that those solutions will teach. I was looking for someone like him all along. I never wanted one of the "fix you" dominants - those dominants who believe that with just the right amount of prodding, and the right things said, that they'd be able to "fix" a submissive. I wanted someone strong enough to maintain control while stepping back and allowing me to do the work necessary to fix myself. I thank god every day that he and I found each other. juliet

D1961wildchild -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 4:16:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie I have also seen many comments about submissives who bring “baggage” into a D/s dynamic. Often times, this baggage is a result of such past abuse...... I think there is a part of me that feels I do not deserve happiness, and so when I find myself happy at last, my subconscious tries to convince me otherwise. Sometimes I see it as it comes, and we can nip it in the bud. Other times it takes us both by surprise and can be brutal. It only lasts a short time, but it’s like a tornado blowing right through our relationship. I hate it, and he hates it. This I can relate too... yes I bring mountains of baggage .... yes there is that part of me also ... tornado hell now there is a description .... I do not know how to accept being loved or really come to terms with how I feel about Him ... plagued by issues of self worth and insecurities ... I am often amazed by His patience and ability to see past my self destructive behaviour and the His constant ability to find ways to deal with it ... His strength to stand back and let me work it out and His wisdom to know when I have hit a brick wall and need help even when I have been unable to ask for it ... I can not speak for others but to a large degree I have not and do not think I will ever "get over it" what I do is find ways to live with it, accept that it has happened and move on, but it is always with me ... it is part of who I am ... by the fact that it played a role in my development in to who I am it has to be part of who I am and the relationships I am in, the trick seems to be to use it in a positive way where possible, to be aware of where the scars lie, in some cases D/s has been healing in facing these deomons, in others this baggage has created no go areas. Discussion, frank, open even when painful discussion needs to be there or how does He understand where the triggers are and how to treat them. Sounds so much easier in print than it is in fact ... Hey it depends on the tornado ... I trust in His judgement as to whether we weather the storm, fight the storm or run for cover ... better to live to fight annother day lol. Will I ever have a life without tornados ... For His sake I pray. Do I think that an abusive past has lead to my descission to join L/s ... I do not see how it does not, all of lifes experiences shape who you are and what you seek in life whether good or bad. Do I think I would be D/s if the abuse had never happened ... hell who knows because I would not be who I am, perhaps rather than look at abusive history and correleation to D/s perhaps you need to look more at the qualities of those who survive such abuse and choose D/s, maybe such survival can create similar traits in people that can come from other life experiences ... perhaps it is not what we have or have not been through but rather what we bring to ourselves from those experiences that makes us who we are? Just some random thoughts, warm smiles to all, thankyou for a thought promoting post

pqwinny -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 6:08:28 AM)
Yup, i have a past laced with 'unpleasantries' and i have found that the Tornados will come but the severity of their impact correlates to my level of self care...most times. That is, when i'm taking care of myself on a daily basis, in the ways in which i have learned work well for me, even when something pops up, it is usally pretty short lived and relatively easy to tame. However, there are times when i still, despite all my Godzillian healing efforts and learned techniques, can be caught off guard by something or underestimate the strength or power of an event. Dealing with one of those right now involving the court system and a childhood perpetrator. I thought i could 'handle' this and most of the time i can but some of the time it manages to reduce me to complete emotional rubble. So i crumble and then i sweep myself up (with Sir's help and the strong spiritual base i've built over the years) and carry on. i don't say this with any anger or self-pity. This is my life and what i've got to deal with. Everyone has stuff to deal with and if we all put our stuff on the table, i'm certain i would scramble to retrieve my own at the end of it all. That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger...another un-trite expression.

WhipTheHip -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 6:25:31 AM)
Childhood abuse can lead to lifelong depression, DID (formerly MPD), cutting, self-mutilation, border line personality disorder, low self-esteem, alienation, distrust in everyone especially men (if a male was the perp), substance abuse, promiscuity, guilt, shame, self-blame, self-hate, feeling dirty, feeling different than others, feeling like you have a dark secret that needs to be hidden, anger turned inwards, numbness, an inability to form close relationships with people, an inability to love, a change in sexual orientation, a hatred toward men, repressed anger which explodes from time-to-time at loved ones, cynicism, negativity, an absense of faith in mankind, paranoia, sociopathy, anti-social behavior, cigarette use, obesity, psychosis, flashbacks, creating a walled city around their heart, post-traumatic stress syndrome, an inability to beileve anyone is good, prostitution, always anticipating and expecting the worst, accepting bad to avoid the anxiety of getting it by surprise, a need to always be in contol or a desire to be controlled. It is normal for those who were abused to seek out men who are abusive, and find themselves in one abuse relationship after another. You may find it hard to love, and hard to be loved. Abuse can lead to abusive behavior towards others. The best way to treat abuse is with lots of love, kindness, understanding, patience, and empathy.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 7:18:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie I think there is a part of me that feels I do not deserve happiness, and so when I find myself happy at last, my subconscious tries to convince me otherwise. The ghosts of abuse don't have anything to do with Ds and everything to do with "our stuff". We also have to realize, as you have, that "our stuff" affects those in relationships with us (like your Master). Some time ago, I found a website that was profound for me. It begins: "Fear often originates from a sense of not being in control. We use control to manage people and situations that we do not understand or that threaten to expose our lack of self-love. If we accepted people and situations for what they are, we would be back to the universal definition of love - which is, "Love is the opposite of fear". Love exists at the level of the higher self while fear is an emotion, and all emotions exist at the level of the lower self - the ego/personality level. We trade the experience of love for the emotion of fear and inhibit our abilities to co-create and manifest. We cannot simultaneously experience love and fear together." It continues and goes through, step by step, how to work through this fear. Realize that doing this might not be accomplished the first time, nor my the effects last for a lifetime. It's something we have to do again and again. quote: have you had such tornados? Have you resolved them? What were your challenges and successes? I highly recommend the website. Also, I've meditated, using the Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear (in every bit of fiction, there is a kernel of truth). The website is http://members.optusnet.com.au/~acceptance/YourPurposeWeb/TransformFeartoLove.htm. All in all, learn that you ARE worthy and have compassion for yourself in learning this. Often, it's easy to use our frustration/anger at our lack of progress as yet another way to hate ourselves. Master Fire

sapphirepleasure -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 7:36:12 AM)
I, too, have a history of abuse, both as a child and in my first abusive marriage. I make sure that any dominant with whom I engage is aware of this so that if feelings come up, he is not surprised, and can help me get through them. So far I've been fortunate to experience only loving, supportive responses when things from the past have been triggered, and the release of emotions has been very healing. I am meeting another Dom soon who has been my friend online and by phone for about six months now, and he's very aware of my past and even read and participated in the thread I started in July called, "Learning to Please My Master, the Sadist". He describes himself as a loving sadist, so I know that I will once again be faced with the possibility of our interactions taking me to scary places, but he is aware of this and has dealt with submissives in the past who also have abuse issues they are healing from, so I am hopeful. I long for the day where I am able to fully surrender to a Dom and feel safe and protected because I think that's necessary for me to fully diffuse the trauma of my past. sp

agirl -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 7:37:28 AM)
I see my baggage as the sum of my experiences..and think it's a natural thing to have. From childhood I've used strategies, fences and masks to aid me in coping with the life I've had and what I've encountered. I formed them for a reason and in my opinion they are perfectly necessary and a reasonable thing to have. I don't think in terms of abuse, personally. In answer to your question..Yes, some of my barriers, fences, strategies and coping mechanisms kick in when they really aren't necessary.....and it can be understandable at times and less so at others. I get upset about it sometimes, especially when I am complacent enough to think that certain things are fixed. There are some aspects of myself that are just * there* now and it's just better to work on finding ways of understanding and rationalising them and not give them more attention than is necessary. I don't want them played up, nor is it useful to play them down. There are lots of things that I can work on..........but there are aspects that are better to just accept. It's easier to find ways of dealing with them than trying to fix them. Finding the source of them is helpful, and, for me, reduced their effect but I no longer expect things to go away altogether and I think that has been the MOST helpful part. Some of the good and positive things about me are a direct result of NOT so good things happening to me and that's how I prefer to view this. I AM the sum of my baggage. Some of the stuff I lug around comes in rather handy at times. With regards, agirl

pqwinny -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 7:58:59 AM)
i want to add 2 more cents as this relates to D/s... i am finding that my relationship with my Sir has had a surprising side effect as it pertains to things i know are linked to past negative experiences. Because He has instilled in me such a strong sense of unconditional love and safety, i have experienced the surfacing of some of the deepest and most painful emotional releases of my life. Stuff that seems to have been locked far away for my own protection and self-preservation has surfaced with Him-the human psyche is remarkable, to me, in the way that it is geared to survival and healing under all conditions. When this first occurred it was unsettling for both of us. But we have come to understand, accept and embrace it happens as symbolic of the trust and deep connection between us that creates an environment conducive to not only pleasure and gratification but healing and growth as well. It's never pleasant for me when it occurs but it is most definitely cathartic. And i wonder if this new level of healing would have been available to me if not for D/s.

amayos -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 8:02:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie For those of you who have abuse in your history, have those experiences come to play in your D/s relationships? How have you experienced those ghosts, and how were you able to overcome it (if in fact you did)? I have not suffered abuse in my childhood, though I often adore those who have been abused. I have always said abuse makes interesting people.

Frank01 -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 8:11:15 AM)
There are tons of "interesting people" in mental hospitals-you should visit sometime.

WhipTheHip -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 8:34:15 AM)
I have a special place in my heart for the downtrodden, for misfits, for society's outcasts, for the emotionally disturbed and for those with mental health issue. Those who were abused need extra love, more attention, greater reassurance. They may fear abandonment and mistreatment. My heart goes out to all those who have been hurt, who have been mistreated, and have felt unloved. It is my desire to give them all the love they have missed, to comfort them and hold them, and make them feel worthy and needed. It is my desire to make up to them their loss.

Voltare -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 8:44:15 AM)
We are greater than the sum of our parts. We are a combination of all things, good and bad. Take one away, and the other is meaningless. I've always believed that the majority of people involved in BDSM could trace their specific desires and interests back to some sort of abuse, physical or emotional hardship, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, or other difficult and painful experiences. Than again, it's safe to say that almost every person - vanilla or otherwise - has been through situations and ordeals that fall into those catagories, without seeking out BDSM activities to compensate for them. Truly, I believe BDSM can be an excellent form of therapy to help cope with and overcome these experiences. It helps draw those ghosts out into the open, forcing some light on them, and gives us the tools to fight them, in a relatively safe and controlled setting. So yes, I've had my tornadoes, my challenges, and I have to overcome them every day. Knowing that if I had lived a special, 'privileged' life without pain or suffering, happiness would be meaningless and boring. Chocolate would taste terrible, if it's all you ever ate. Real happiness doesn't come from the absence of pain, it comes from living a full life, with a balance of suffering and joy. Stephan

CrappyDom -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 10:55:46 AM)
Life IS hard, we all suffer from imperfect parents, imperfect society, and simple back luck. EVERYONE brings their past into their present relationships. The only difference is how it affects them and how they deal with it. It is my past which makes me a match for someone else and their past. What makes that pairing healthy or not is how we deal with those issues.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Of a serious nature - the ghosts of abuse (9/25/2006 12:26:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip I have a special place in my heart for the downtrodden, for misfits, for society's outcasts, for the emotionally disturbed and for those with mental health issue. Those who were abused need extra love, more attention, greater reassurance. They may fear abandonment and mistreatment. My heart goes out to all those who have been hurt, who have been mistreated, and have felt unloved. It is my desire to give them all the love they have missed, to comfort them and hold them, and make them feel worthy and needed. It is my desire to make up to them their loss. In my opinion...while this a really great fantasy, you will never, ever be able to do this. You cannot heal their stuff. Only they can heal their stuff. However, what you CAN do is look at your own stuff. Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? This doesn't say that we don't and shouldn't offer support to people who are working through their stuff. We all have stuff. Stuff stuff stuff. Master Fire

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