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No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 11:12:27 AM   
Mercnbeth


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People are “of peace” or “of war”. Peoples words and deeds are the indicators of intent. Christianity, Judaism, are defined by their deed of their followers, often undertaken because of a ‘leaders’ personal interpretation of their words. There is nothing to fear from a Christian or Jew or Muslim individual. There should be great fear if a group of individuals, from any camp, agree on interpreting words in such a manner that excludes any consideration for an alternative to their dogma. We saw it historically with Jews and Christians, we are living through it with Islam. The common ground is they justify their activities in the name of god, and have no conscience of bastardizing the interpretation of ancient text to support their position.

I don’t know if there is debate that ‘religion’ is a loose term. To some being a liberal or conservative, or Democrat or Republican is a more religion than philosophy determined upon observable facts. You can determine if a person’s position is based upon religious faith. Factors of ‘infallibility surface. Compromise isn’t possible. Logical argument and debate isn’t possible once crude name calling identifies those ‘outside’ the religion and answers such as “because it’s written”, or “because my leader/founder said so” are part of the dogma.

It’s with that consideration in mind that I pose the only historical religion that compares to Islam, the Nazi Party in pre-WWII Germany. I am not comparing the two on the basis of their activities. The Nazis in Germany have no comparison in their atrocities. They are an example of humanity's "worse case" scenario. The followers of Islam do not warrant such a comparison. I’m comparing them philosophically and in terms of a small minority making a global impact.

The population in Germany at the onset of WWII was 69 Million. When it came to power in 1933 the Nazi Party had over 2 million members. Once in power, it attracted many more members and by the time of its dissolution it had 8.5 million members. Many of these were nominal members who joined for careerist reasons, but the party nevertheless had an active membership of at least a million, including virtually all the holders of senior positions in the national government. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

Calculating the math using the height of it’s membership, the Nazi party represented 12% of Germany. A little less more than 1 out of ten were official members of the party. Many were members only in name. Compare it to the current worldwide Muslim population of 1.76 Billion. Source: http://www.islamicpopulation.com/world_islam.html

What if the same 12% identify themselves as “fundamentalists” or “Islamo-Fascists”? If that were true there are 144 Million subscribing to the policies of the radical arm of the Muslim Religion. I don’t believe in that number, but I ask you to put a number on the question, how many Muslims are in agreement and would activity participate in the ‘war’ called for by vocal fundamentalist Islamic leaders such as bin Laden, Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, or the policy setting Mullahs? Instead of 1 of 10, would it be 1 in 25, 1 in a 1,000, 10,000? At 1 in 10,000 the result is 120,000 who would; die at the request of their leaders killing infidels, fly planes into buildings, encourage children to blow themselves up, stone woman who dare walk around without a burka or arrest her for driving a car, beat men for missing prayer meetings, dance in the streets when the publisher of a cartoon is murdered.

It takes only 0.71% of the Islamic population to reach the 8.5 Million that subscribed to Nazi philosophy.

What would be the impact of a global religious war against Islam? Again looking at history, the total estimated human loss of life caused by World War II, irrespective of political alignment, was roughly 62 million people. The civilian toll was around 37 million, the military toll about 25 million. 
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

A country of 69 Million people, 12% of them Nazis, resulted in 62 Million dead and countless others injured and maimed throughout the world. If you want to contribute half that number to the Japanese side of the ledger it doesn’t change the basic argument, or the impact of a radical minority on the world stage.

What’s missing? Why hasn’t the ‘war’ gone from local skirmishes to global? I’ll point again to Germany for the answer. There has yet to be a ‘charismatic’ leader in the Muslim world. As of yet, they have no Hitler. Maybe Saddam was trying to reach that status. Ahmadinejad may be attempting to become the equivalent. Should he, or someone else, arise to light the fuse how can the world survive? What is more likely, a charismatic Islamic leader, or Islam policing and distancing themselves from the radical minority among them? The ‘Catch 22’ is contained as a fundamental Islamic principle. It is against Islamic dogma to criticize any activity of any Muslim. This fact makes the possibility of a change coming from within remote.

God, and the decision how to follow him or if he exists at all should be personal. Following a certain faith shouldn’t exclude any other. Places of religious service should be collection points for the voluntary redistribution of wealth, and havens for those unable to care for themselves. There is no ‘one true’ religion, no good religion, no evil religion. There are evil people.
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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 11:23:25 AM   
Chaingang


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There are indeed religions of war: all of the Abrahamic faiths are religions of war. At the heart of each of them is the myth of genocide and everyone also seems to have been promised the city of Jerusalem.

The rest is all bullshit.

And yes, that might be the ultra-abridged version of things.

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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 11:39:19 AM   
CrappyDom


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And here I thought I was the one who used sarcasm and irony the best here.  Great spoof Merc, sad thing is some people here are going to take you seriously and think you actually believe this sillyness.

I mean what idiot would take comparing Muslims to Hitler and Germany seriously right?  Hitler defeated most of Europe in a year, took over half of Russia in a single season, occupied all of Northern Europe, most of Southern Europe, North Africa and whose warships prowled our coastal waters.  I know  you get that the united arab world under a leader like hitler (Nassar) couldn't defeat Israel, a county so small Europe has cities that are bigger but there are idiots here too dumb to realize that.

So, next time you write a parady, I would make it a little less over the top and point it out more clearly that you are just fooling around and that nobody should take it seriously.

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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 4:28:14 PM   
Estring


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

And here I thought I was the one who used sarcasm and irony the best here.  Great spoof Merc, sad thing is some people here are going to take you seriously and think you actually believe this sillyness.

I mean what idiot would take comparing Muslims to Hitler and Germany seriously right?  Hitler defeated most of Europe in a year, took over half of Russia in a single season, occupied all of Northern Europe, most of Southern Europe, North Africa and whose warships prowled our coastal waters.  I know  you get that the united arab world under a leader like hitler (Nassar) couldn't defeat Israel, a county so small Europe has cities that are bigger but there are idiots here too dumb to realize that.

So, next time you write a parady, I would make it a little less over the top and point it out more clearly that you are just fooling around and that nobody should take it seriously.



You know if you weren't so anti-religious, I would swear you think you are God's gift to the message boards.
It is very easy to compare Nazi Germany to the present day Islamic fascists. They both envisioned a world that would be under the rule of their particular vision. And they both want the Jews exterminated.
Because Hitler accomplished so much more in less time means what exactly? Take a look at present day Europe and it is obvious that this Muslim fanaticism has got a pretty strong hold in a few short years as well. 
World domination was the intent of Nazism, and is the intent of Islamic fascism as well. All you have to do is read their own words to see that. Their tactics may differ, but the end result would be the same. Any idiot should be able to see that.

Oh and by the way, parady is actually spelled parody.

< Message edited by Estring -- 9/12/2006 4:30:29 PM >


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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 4:33:04 PM   
juliaoceania


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Saddam was a secularist, so it would be doubtful he could lead a Muslim Holy War.

Other than that, an insightful post that I agree with as far as there are no religions of peace or of war

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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 5:15:42 PM   
EnglishDomNW


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All this reminds me of the London bombings and how religious fanatics excused it in the name of Islam.  The very first victim of the London bombings was a Muslim girl whose only crime was that she was going to work at the wrong time in the wrong place.



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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 5:21:22 PM   
Estring


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

All this reminds me of the London bombings and how religious fanatics excused it in the name of Islam.  The very first victim of the London bombings was a Muslim girl whose only crime was that she was going to work at the wrong time in the wrong place.




And since she didn't die blowing up infidels, she gets no virgins.

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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 5:31:11 PM   
NastyDaddy


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It's ok for one muslim to blow up another muslim as long they don't criticize them..... criticism is a very bad thing.

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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 5:35:52 PM   
CrappyDom


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quote:

  Because Hitler accomplished so much more in less time means what exactly?


LMFAO

As for me, it isn't that I am god's gift to anything, it is just that so many here are unarmed, it is like taking candy from babies.

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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 5:43:49 PM   
NastyDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Saddam was a secularist, so it would be doubtful he could lead a Muslim Holy War.

Other than that, an insightful post that I agree with as far as there are no religions of peace or of war

There does not seem to be any special criterion needed so far, anyone who follows the muslim faith can function as the leader of a holy war... look at the idiots doing it now, half of them are from the other side of that little pond over there.

Merely saying the current ruler is not quite capable is a very narrow perspective... they could be gone in a flash as another disposable muslim reaches for their promised 40 virgins.

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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 5:49:26 PM   
twicehappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

God, and the decision how to follow him or if he exists at all should be personal. Following a certain faith shouldn’t exclude any other. Places of religious service should be collection points for the voluntary redistribution of wealth, and havens for those unable to care for themselves. There is no ‘one true’ religion, no good religion, no evil religion. There are evil people.


BRAVO !!!!!!
 
             and WELL STATED!!!!!


And again i ask "Why is there enough religion to inspire war but not enough to inspire tolerence?


< Message edited by twicehappy -- 9/12/2006 5:51:35 PM >


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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 5:52:44 PM   
Estring


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

quote:

  Because Hitler accomplished so much more in less time means what exactly?


LMFAO

As for me, it isn't that I am god's gift to anything, it is just that so many here are unarmed, it is like taking candy from babies.


That is the great thing about the internet. You can create a fantasy world where you can create your own reality. Being angry about everything, and calling people who disagree with you idiots may make you a genius in your world. It sure doesn't in mine.

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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 5:58:38 PM   
Estring


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Saddam was a secularist, so it would be doubtful he could lead a Muslim Holy War.

Other than that, an insightful post that I agree with as far as there are no religions of peace or of war

There does not seem to be any special criterion needed so far, anyone who follows the muslim faith can function as the leader of a holy war... look at the idiots doing it now, half of them are from the other side of that little pond over there.

Merely saying the current ruler is not quite capable is a very narrow perspective... they could be gone in a flash as another disposable muslim reaches for their promised 40 virgins.


We worked with Stalin to defeat the Nazis in WWII. We chose a lesser evil to side with to deafeat a larger evil. Does anyone seriously believe that Saddam wouldn't side with Islamic fanatics against the US despite being secular? He was already paying families of homicide bombers 25,000 dollars. I doubt he had trouble sleeping at night because of it.

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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 5:58:41 PM   
EnglishDomNW


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Has there ever been, in the history of the world, a terrorist atrocity carried out in the name of Buddha?  I'm beginning to think the little bald fat guy in the nappy is the one true God.

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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 6:00:36 PM   
Estring


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

Has there ever been, in the history of the world, a terrorist atrocity carried out in the name of Buddha?  I'm beginning to think the little bald fat guy in the nappy is the one true God.


Buddha has inspired fat little guys to believe they have the body of a god.

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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 6:03:54 PM   
EnglishDomNW


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lol see, it's true

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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 6:06:33 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Saddam was a secularist, so it would be doubtful he could lead a Muslim Holy War.

Other than that, an insightful post that I agree with as far as there are no religions of peace or of war

There does not seem to be any special criterion needed so far, anyone who follows the muslim faith can function as the leader of a holy war... look at the idiots doing it now, half of them are from the other side of that little pond over there.

Merely saying the current ruler is not quite capable is a very narrow perspective... they could be gone in a flash as another disposable muslim reaches for their promised 40 virgins.


We worked with Stalin to defeat the Nazis in WWII. We chose a lesser evil to side with to deafeat a larger evil. Does anyone seriously believe that Saddam wouldn't side with Islamic fanatics against the US despite being secular? He was already paying families of homicide bombers 25,000 dollars. I doubt he had trouble sleeping at night because of it.


I am saying that Muslims would not "buy" him as a charismatic leader for their Jihad. He was not that popular in the region with fanatical Muslims, so I am guessing it would not be easy to rally them to his cause.

BTW, I am going to make sure that I write this disclaimer from now on.. THIS IS JUST AN OPINION AND I COULD BE WRONG... there, now back to the debate

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 9/12/2006 6:09:22 PM >


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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 6:06:43 PM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

Has there ever been, in the history of the world, a terrorist atrocity carried out in the name of Buddha?  I'm beginning to think the little bald fat guy in the nappy is the one true God.


seems like maybe in Tibet in 67

http://www.timbomb.net/buddha/archive/msg00087.html


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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 6:17:14 PM   
EnglishDomNW


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Damn.  I'm going to start my own religion and call it .... erm..... Bingoism.

We're basically peaceful people but you can massacre anyone if you get a full line of numbers.

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(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
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RE: No Religion of Peace. No Religion of War - 9/12/2006 6:20:40 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

Damn.  I'm going to start my own religion and call it .... erm..... Bingoism.

We're basically peaceful people but you can massacre anyone if you get a full line of numbers.


is yelling out "Bingo" like saying "Amen"? Or is it the name of your diety?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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