RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (Full Version)

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LotusSong -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/9/2006 8:58:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IslandHeat

OK, I can respect your opinions, but were you as worked up over Michael Moore's Schlockumentary (he's been sue by many he interviwed for showing their statements out of context, and misrepresenting thieir viewpoints) or do you just get upset over crappola that DOESN'T support your own beliefs and opinions?


Geee.. doesn't EVERYBODY?????   I prefer to believe the worst.. then when it proves false.. I'm relieved.. if not, then I'm not disappointed.  I'm still waiting to be relieved about SOMEthing..

I hope someday to at least be proud to be an American again.



Lordandmaster -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/9/2006 9:19:53 PM)

Yeah, this one is strong too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm3v-HbxfQw&NR



sissifytoserve -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/9/2006 9:22:22 PM)

911 was an inside job.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGtOFudmHG8



LotusSong -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/9/2006 10:20:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

911 was an inside job.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGtOFudmHG8


Amazing.



CrappyDom -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/9/2006 10:49:43 PM)

PNAC

quote:

  
A line frequently quoted by critics from Rebuilding America's Defenses famously refers to the possibility of a "catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor".[5] This quote appears in Chapter V, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", which discusses the perceived need for the Department of Defense to "move more aggressively to experiment with new technologies and operational concepts”.[6] The full quote is as follows: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor." Some have used this quote as evidence for their belief the US government was complicit in the 9/11 terrorist attacks. See the article 9/11 conspiracy theories for further information on this topic. Many critics also claim the PNAC believed this "new Pearl Harbor" would justify war on Iraq. [citation needed]




NorthernGent -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/10/2006 1:05:04 AM)

The biggest problem is the fact that most people believe that governments are incapable of killing their own people.

History proves otherwise.
 
Very true. It's an amazing concept to grasp that anyone would think like this when our governments have been sending us to wars to die for centuries. We're viewed as a commodity and expendable at the right price.

Regards






NorthernGent -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/10/2006 1:09:25 AM)

In my opinon 9/11 was not an inside job at all. We all see the planes flying into the towers etc.

The real questions are were the US Government aware of the plot and did they let it happen? The scrambling of fighter jets etc is very suspect and, sadly, there is case to be answered. As sissify stated, if anyone thinks their Government would not dispose of their lives to achieve their objectives then delusion/mainpulation is at play.

Regards



Kedicat -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/10/2006 2:43:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

The biggest problem is the fact that most people believe that governments are incapable of killing their own people.

History proves otherwise.
 
Very true. It's an amazing concept to grasp that anyone would think like this when our governments have been sending us to wars to die for centuries. We're viewed as a commodity and expendable at the right price.

Regards






Check out the northwoods plans of the pentagon. Detailed plans for inciting fear of foreign enemies by perpetrating death and destruction on the US by it's own agencies. And that was cooked up decades ago.



NorthernGent -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/10/2006 6:37:56 AM)

It's the tried and tested propaganda tool of creating the image of an enemy that presents a serious threat. It's as old as the hills and still working a treat.

Regards



sissifytoserve -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/10/2006 10:18:10 AM)

OPERATION NORTHWOODS

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

Snippet:

"An aircraft at Elgin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CJA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone [a remotely controlled unmanned aircraft]. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida.

From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Elgin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will be transmitting on the international distress frequency a "May Day" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MiG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft, which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO [International Civil Aviation Organization radio stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the U.S. what has happened to the aircraft instead of the U.S. trying to "sell" the incident.



NorthernGent -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/10/2006 11:44:48 AM)

It doesn't really surprise me that such a plan existed. Out of interest, does the author have credibility?

Regards



puella -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/10/2006 2:42:53 PM)

Man, I have been busy going to memorial services and am sorry that I did not respond before now...

Woo hooo Crappy!  The wedding is on! (And so is the wedding night, LordandMaster!)

heh

Okay, for brevity I will list all my responses in this one post here:

seeksfemslave:  I am sure with the provisions of some of the links others have posted here, you will have come to understand some of the problems of this 'docu-drama'.  The main being that they are advertising this as being a historical representation and documentation of what brought about 9/11 and that it is a factual representation of the 9/11 Commission Report.  The 9/11 Commission Report was lenghty and a dry read, because it was a fact by fact by fact representation of the investigation.  I read it, and would suggest anyone who wants an idea of what happened to do so, but will not hold my breath.

The 9/11 Commissioners have publicly refuted this film as any sort of historical representation of verity.  The script massively diverges from the conclusions that investigation found to be true.  It also weaves nuggets of fact in with huge falsities (many of which are conspiracy theories which have been pulled off websites and are aslo documented to be falsehoods), including a scene where the US is in physical touching range of Bin Laden and Clinton tells them not to take him out (that little scena, for one, did NOT happen). 

The FBI consultant the film producers hired to work verifcation for this project quit after a weeks worth of work, due to the falsifcation of information which was being produced.

The sly manipulation of truth to a dramatized fallicy meant to lead and sway instead of present facts is totally fine... in a film which is billing itself as a fictional story.  This film is billing itself as a historical representation, and has solicited Scholastic Books to come up with a lesson plan to teach this false history to our children.  The backlash has been so huge, that thankfully  Scholastic has yanked its lesson plans. 

My personal problem with the film is that a major public network is airing it on the commemorative date of the tragedy, billing it as a factual representation of the events and a tribute to 'truth and bravery' (when it is not), and is tryint to captialize on the grief and lingering terror in the populace to manipulate an agenda, which I would strongly suspect has everything to do with the upcoming elections.

It is wrong to use a tragedy thusly.  It is wrong to falsify events of a tragedy to promote an agenda.  It is wrong to pimp out peoples fears and grief to try to gain your own ends.  It is wrong to victimize victims further, period.


meatcleaver:  I guess I would just refer you to the above.  It is one thing to make a movie like Dr. Zivago, which has a large and loose interpretation of the vicitimaztion of the russian peoples in during the revolution, etc.  It is entirely another to make a docu-drama which you bill as a historical rerpesentation of the facts leading up to a tragedy, and which you state is a representation of the facts presented in the 9/11 Commision Report... and to have that not be true.  And again... it is wrong to use the fears and saddness of people in respone to the largest terror attack on American soil and utilize that for a political agenda.

IslandHeat:  I was not.  I am not a huge Michael Moore fan, but he also has never had a national school plan drawn up for one of the largest provider of lession plans in the United States based upon his films.  He has never stated that he has based his films on a Governmental  documented historical fact, which is exactly what this film is being touted as.   If you want to start a thread about Michael Moore, I highly suggest you put one up, I am sure it will get a zillion hits.  Your reference has absolutely no connection to the body or spirit of my letter.


As for the various other conspiracy theories which have been suggested.... they are just that, in my opinion.  Everyone is entitled to their beliefs in them, and I have no problem with them, even if I do not subscribe to them... but I just betcha Island Heat and others would be shitting their pants in anger and outrage if ABC were presenting a two day mini series which they bill as the official historical representation of what happened on 9/11 and then it were a film project showing how GW and his buds planned, payed for and executed the entire series of attacks themselves so they could further the Project for the New Amercian Century, or something.... I know it would piss me off just as much as this falsity is. 

Hope that clears things up a bit.



sissifytoserve -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/10/2006 3:09:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

It doesn't really surprise me that such a plan existed. Out of interest, does the author have credibility?

Regards



These are DECLASSIFIED GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS....not "the author's " words.



Chaingang -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/10/2006 3:52:39 PM)

"What Barry Says"
http://www.knife-party.net/flash/barry.html

(an amazingly well-designed video)

I think Kedicat first brought these to my attention, all good stuff:

"The Power of Nightmares"
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm
(in three parts)

"The Century of the Self"
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12642.htm
(in four parts)



sissifytoserve -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/10/2006 4:08:16 PM)

Hey thanks Chaingang....

I haven't seen the second documentry you posted.

Ill watch it tonight.



Chaingang -> RE: The Pathway to 9/11?... Right across the graves of the victims and up to the voting booth (9/12/2006 4:34:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve
9-11 The road to TYRANNY
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1358726890127819985&q=911+the+road+to+tyranny&hl=en


I couldn't co-sign everything the guy had to say because I felt we were occasionally on different ends of things religiously and politically. I take Alex Jones to be a Christian and something like a conservative even though his views are actually all over the map. But the show was useful in breaking down some key elements:

1. That governments act against their own people to assert power - yup, the hits are U.S. planned operations in all likelihood
2. That there is some kind of umbrella design at work - (the main controversy, people don't want to be called a "conspiracy nut" and yet?)
3. That the U.S. government protects what average people call terrorists
4. That the U.S. government considers you a terrorist every time you assert your rights under the Constitution
5. That a police state is in the works and has been for some time, posse comitatus effectively destroyed

Of great interest to me was not so much what he exposed, because I already knew most of it anyway, but what Jones' felt he had to explain. Repeatedly he explains the purposes of one's civil liberties and how they are supposed to operate - he does that because I think the assumption is that you simply do not know to begin with! Amazing. But then we do go to public schools...

Alex Jones is no doubt labelled a "conspiracy nut." It's hard for most people to understand that the really wealthy people running the show are people you have never heard of at all. And what they want is cheap labor from others and easy lives for themselves. And here's a shocking thought: there may not actually be just one unified conspiracy, but actually several in each country - all of them vying for power and wealth. The reason you might as well think of it as a single conspiracy is that their techniques for control and desire for power and wealth lead them to the same political aims. So what's the difference to you and I anyway?

One thing I thought Jones should have done was talk about Unicor. All of this created criminality is a product of wanting to fill more beds in the apparently legal forced labor camps we know as modern low security prisons. They want the best and brightest too - so there is indeed a place for you there (Unicor makes everything from blue jeans to computerized components after all). So the plan is to beat you over the head while you are still a member of the "free" public and then to accommodate you with a nearly comfortable prison bed if and when you step out of line (which eventually you are bound to do one way or another, the complexity of the law is now such that you really are automatically breaking the law all the time because it's not possible not to). Either way, they win. Welcome to work, Prisoner 655321.

The fact is you don't even have to believe in what Jones says. Try these sources instead:

Database Nation:
http://www.databasenation.com/home.htm

Unicor:
http://www.unicor.gov/index.cfm

US Patriot Act:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act
(with dozens of links)

"The Meaning of Timothy McVeigh"
http://www.geocities.com/gorevidal3000/tim.htm

He discusses the lack of defense, including the delay in getting fighter planes into the air to intercept the hijacked airliners, compared with the time one might expect after a hijacking report. If, he says, these huge failures were incompetence, they would deserve "a number of courts martial with an impeachment or two thrown in." Instead, there is to be only a limited inquiry into how the "potential breakdowns among federal agencies ... could have allowed the terrorist attacks to occur." This, concludes Vidal, opens the possibility that the administration in fact let the attack happen, in order to capitalize on a catalyzing event that would enable it to achieve controversial policy goals under the rubric of a War on Terror.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gore_Vidal



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