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Lost In Translation - 8/29/2006 2:26:43 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		When I was living abroad, and still new with the language, the one thing that made me feel the most invisible and blank was the loss of my sense of humor,or rather the facility to convey that part of myself.  Conveying humor is such a personal thing and the intricacies of it really reveal so much of your personality.  The loss of that faculty really was one of the most difficult obstacles for me.  Nothing seemed to hamper me more, frustrate me or or even on some level deaden me more than knowing I was not getting their jokes, and equally as important, I was unable to convey a huge part of who I was as a person.

I have often struggled with conveying all of who I am when being totally surrendered.  The first thing to go is usually my humor.  I do not know why... for fear of offending, or seeming less 'submissive', seeming unbecoming, or just worrying about not pleasing.  I have also found that I wither without it.  It has also, I am sure, been a big part in my failures as a slave. 

I recently sent my former owner an apology.  I realized, that in an effort to be more of what (perhaps what I thought) he wanted, or in an effort to be 'the best, most slaviest slave' for him, I cheated him out of the person he met and initially found engaging. 

All masters will try to help hone a slave, to improve her, but, perhaps,  in an effort to really work hard on improving myself for him, I killed off the person he may never have wanted to release.

Humor, as an intelligent person, can often be many things, including sarcastic and biting and very pointed, and usually displays quite a bit of sass... I wonder how others have dealt with humor in their relationships with a M/s dynamic. 

< Message edited by puella -- 8/29/2006 2:37:41 PM >
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RE: Lost In Translation - 8/29/2006 3:00:16 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I cannot answer for a M/s dynamic, but I can for the D/s dynamics I have been engaged in. My former dom had this idea that laughter had a place, but it wasn't during a scene, nor other places he found "inappropriate". For example, we watched this touching movie that made me uncomfortable and I laughed in a place he though I should have cried. He actually glared at me. Later we talked about it and he thought me "abnormal" for this. Perhaps I am abnormal, but not in a dangerous way...smiles. We were just not right for each other.

My Daddy  has by intention and design made me laugh while I perform oral sex on him. He thinks it is cute when I laugh while he beats me. He understands this is the way I process many emotions, and he not only accepts this about me, he doesn't think it makes me weird at all... it is just part of who I am. I will never ever try to be with someone that has this idea that I am not to laugh at certain things, or my giggles are somehow "flawed". I was once, and it was very uncomfortable and left me feeling somewhat displeasing. My Daddy likes a little sass and he has given me cues when it is appropriate. I am still learning how to communicate with him, and I am far from perfect, but for the most part I know when he wishes me to be silent. He understands my humor and does not see it as disrespectful because it truly isn't meant to be. He also knows how to discuss things in a way where I feel I have the freedom to say what I need to, which I did not know was even possible in D/s.

I will be curious to see how others respond to this thread.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to puella)
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RE: Lost In Translation - 8/29/2006 3:06:03 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		THe truth is that in order for relationships to work long term, we must become comfortable being fully who we are while we are in them.  After the initial jitters have gone down, people should relax into themselves and just be happy together, being who they are.

Blocking out any part of yourself because of fear never serves anyone well in the long term.  Most people have humor as an integral part of their lives and unfortunately there IS pressure in the lifestyle (or whatever you call it) to ALWAYS be serious and NEVER joke about certain things.

As always, be yourself and you won't go wrong (unless you suck)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to puella)
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RE: Lost In Translation - 8/29/2006 3:09:23 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		well I can tell you puella from the M side of the M/s dynamic I appreciate humor .. it gives a bit of life to a relationship .... sometimes myself I will make a brat comment just to get a laugh or chuckle out of a slave. When I am with someone I may hone her ... but it in a direction she wants to go . to help her with goals she may want to accomplish .... not to change the person I became involved with .. I got with her because of who she is . not who I could make her into.
 
Maybe I'm just weird like that

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Lost In Translation - 8/29/2006 3:10:16 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		puella,

I hope I can convey everything I have to say here in one shot.  Sometimes I achieve that, others not.

A lot of what I do is conveyed through humor.  Many of the thoughts I share here are through the attempts at humor, and I don't think I always achieve the notice of what I might be actually saying.  I think it has to do with reading, and not hearing it as I think it.  Pacing, timing.

In the vanilla world, I operate the same way.  90% of every word that comes out of my mouth better be informing in some way, or entertaining in some way (or both).  The rest of the time, I bore myself, which is intolerable in my own eyes.

I have, what I call, my unique perspective.

I carry that over into my BDSM relationships as well.  And I can see from your perspective, that of a sub/slave, that that is my privilege.  Yes, I have the ability to make my partner laugh, and I have the ability to make her cry (again, sometimes both, which sometimes makes that person very confused).  And, to belabor the point, that is my prerogative.

But I understand your point.  Your perception is that the dominant party can be who/whatever they wish to be, but you have to be this 'different' way.  They can be serious or lighthearted, but you have to be serious, so as not to make a misstep.  I can see where making light where Master/Mistress wants anything from you BUT light a problem.  However, couples who understand each other, know each other, shouldn't have that difficulty.  Even that statement, true though it should be, isn't quite on the mark.  One of the responsibilities of a Master/Mistress, IMO, is to be able to see through their servant's mind (and of course NEVER to misinterpret).

Here is the difficult part of my reply.  In truth, it is the responsibility of the Master/Mistress to set the tone.  To not squash 'you'.  To allow you to flourish.  To notice that something is missing and to bring it back out of you.  To quit letting you dom yourself (which is what I see you having done).

I believe I understand humor very well, relationships or not.  I also understand WIITWD very well.  Humor has its place.  'Place' has its place.  You can have both, as long as you don't forget the latter.  But knowing your place shouldn't take away from your essence.  Submitting is about being freer than being shackled by the mundane.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to puella)
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RE: Lost In Translation - 8/29/2006 3:14:46 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		I would imagine you would easily make a girl chuckle, Tamer...

I really do not think my humor-genocide was something he forced on me, at all.  That is what I (probably rather obtusely) was trying to get at.  I think I did it myself, without even realizing it until now.

Humor, especially if you entwine it with any sort of intelligence and comprehension of society, tends to be less about sweet little giggle fests and harmless fart jokes and often can be quite sharp and biting, even while still being very very funny.  Often, the more 'finesse' your humor has, the less 'subbie' it is.  It is in that situation, that I think it becomes tricky translating it into life as a pleasing servile... if you get my drift?

(in reply to Tamerofwild1s)
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RE: Lost In Translation - 8/29/2006 3:23:24 PM   
Tamerofwild1s


Posts: 1765
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		ok maybe I am missing it puella . but I don't see how a wry or sarcastic humor can be less subbie. Maybe the point is that subs and slaves have the predisposed notion of not laughing that may have caused you to push this wonderful side of you out the door. it's something to look at I suppose ... if you did it ... why did you do it . what was the real underlying reasoning of it. I think your humor as long as it is seen as humor would be a wonderful accent to any relationship

_____________________________

A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Lost In Translation - 8/29/2006 3:29:57 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		puella,

I don't mean this as a negative comment about your former owner.  I don't know him, nor do I know you except through your words.

While humor isn't EVERYTHING to me, it is very important.  Not just my humor, jokes, witticism, sacrastic remarks, or such, but of the people around me.  To the extent, that the lack of a sense of humor troubles me.  I notice it.  I notice the type of humor someone enjoys, and the kind of balance it gives them.

If I notice someone who has "lost" their sense of humor, their zest for the inanities of life ... I immediately wonder what is wrong with them, what is troubling them.  What is the problem in their life, or their expectations and position in life.

As a dom, what troubles me is not that you might concentrate so hard on pleasing someone else - its that someone else didn't recognize that there was, perhaps, a problem?

You cannot accept full responsibility for your "failure".

FHky


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to puella)
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RE: Lost In Translation - 8/29/2006 3:31:13 PM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		puella,
 
i can relate here, what with my own language barrier and all that jazz.  i remember how fun and goofy i used to be in the beginning of my marraige, and how at times, though subtle, i was signaled to be without humor and be serious.  Now i know you believe that you may be the one to take full responsibility for lack of humor, but i wonder just how much of that responsibility truly belongs to you.  i remember being told here and there, and i believe it was sublte conditioning that possibly neither of us realized until years later, but, that if i was goofy at inappropriate times (inappropriate according to his perspective of what a slave should act like and the respect thing and all)  that i was being disrespectful.  However, my hearts intent didn't even allow me to go there.  Just a thought that perhaps he had a hand in how you came to be conditioned as well. For i know that my ex thought slavery should be serious most of the time.  That was a tough lesson.

< Message edited by raiken -- 8/29/2006 3:33:18 PM >

(in reply to puella)
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RE: Lost In Translation - 8/29/2006 4:13:13 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tamerofwild1s

ok maybe I am missing it puella . but I don't see how a wry or sarcastic humor can be less subbie. Maybe the point is that subs and slaves have the predisposed notion of not laughing that may have caused you to push this wonderful side of you out the door. it's something to look at I suppose ... if you did it ... why did you do it . what was the real underlying reasoning of it. I think your humor as long as it is seen as humor would be a wonderful accent to any relationship


Because sometimes humor can be caustic because it makes fun of things we are not supposed to find funny.

In the book A Stranger in a Strange Land the main character is an earthman raised by martians.. he does not get humor, and then one day he busts down laughing and cannot stop.  He says more or less (paraphrasing) that he gets that people laugh because it hurts so much.

Not all humor is submissive giggle giggle, some of it can be offensive to people, it can make us look at ourselves and at our society.. it can help us look at our shortcomings and laugh with others about theirs. A thin skinned dominant that cannot laugh at themselves may not to suited to a witty submissive that thinks it is all fair game as long as it is done in humor. I think I understand what Puella is saying, and that in translating what she thought her former master wanted from her, she lost the part of herself she thinks he admired highly.. her intelligent and sacarstic humor, and the way to commnicate the irony of it all. Being a witty person is as intrinsic as being a submmissive person, and like the example of not being able to get across one's jokes between cultures, sometimes one cannot get across their humor because of their own internal voice squelches it, and therefore changes the fundamentals of their personality.

At least I think that is what she is saying.. it would be intolerable for me not to have my sense of humor, because it is one of my primary coping mechanisms.. and sometimes people have not understood it because I have a dry and sarcastic sense of humor that could be taken literally by someone that does not know me well.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Tamerofwild1s)
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RE: Lost In Translation - 8/29/2006 4:14:16 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		puella, yes I get your drift.
When I find a sub I want her to be herself.
I don't want or need a "Stepford Wife" walking around like a robot all the time!
And comming from an Irish family humor is VERY important to me as well! I think the Irish invented humor and insults.
A woman can be herself, be funny and still be submissive I think.
Also, I would want her to have the choice of a job or career or to stay in the home, hobbies, friends etc.
(I'm not one of those Dominants who's looking for a 24/7 slave that they keep in a cage and never leaves the house.)
I want my sub/slave to demonstrate her personality and humor.
I like the "service" aspect of the sub/slave very much.
In my house she'd be dressed as a maid  and take care of the place and me but if she wanted to work that would be fine too. Not too much work to take care of a condo.
And if she heard a good joke at work I'd of course love to hear it!

(in reply to puella)
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RE: Lost In Translation - 8/29/2006 4:17:41 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Puella, I totally enjoy your humor and it would be a mistake for anyone to try to muffle it. Sure not being yourself is like speaking in a second language. This behavior modification stuff where the personality of the submissive is changed has always been suspect to me. I want natural people (actually one now, ChainedExistence) who want to serve me because they find it fulfilling. I promise you if I am making you smile and you are making me smile, we will do much to be with each other.  

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to popeye1250)
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