RE: Beliefs

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Slipstreme -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 9:43:17 AM)
quote: My question is...do you feel that your partner needs to have the same code or if theirs differs do you feel that they have to realign theirs to sync with yours? Especially in the case of Dominants...do you feel that if your submissive/slave does not realign themselves to match yourself....do you see that as insubordinate or unsubmissive behavior? Yes, they should align themselves with me, and we should align ourselves with each other. It makes living all the more harmonious if there is nothing much that will cause an argument. Thankfully, I fell into the right crowd of people. My family has great respect for animal life, and although neither of them share my same religious beliefs, they share a lot of my same spirituality, and I am not the type of Dom who would require them to give up their god(s) to live with me. There are some things that I believe I need to change or at least accept, because something like religion, I believe is far too much of a personal choice to convert my subs and slave.

Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 9:50:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross As a cute line of humor not meant in any way to belittle or distract from the depth of your own post- Before I got involved with my older partner I believed that there was no decent music made in the 80s. Now that I've been with him a fair while, I've realized there's at least half a dozen decent songs made in the 80s. You're gonna have to cite your sources!!!!!!....lol. I can think of one or two good songs that came from that time frame...but six??? Nah...I'm having a hard time believing that there were even six half way decent songs that came out of the 80's. It's always been my view that the 80's was the most devoid era of musical talent to date. walks in a whips you with a wet noodle ..... I can cite at least 500 songs from the era that were great music . that era spoke of many different things going on at the time .... I know a few subs in here that were probably created due to that music playing lmao

crouchingtigress -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 9:59:13 AM)
i think there is a very big difference between beliefs and knowings....beliefs have come to us from an external source and knowings come from our internal source...you cant change knowings, you cant un know something once you know it. an example of this is: i used to believe i could heal my self. i had read all sorts of books and stuff and the idea made sence....but then one day i cut myself so deeply that i hit the bone my finger was dangling, it was a text book go-to-the-hospital situation....but i went in to a meditation for three hours, all the while imagining my finger wrapped in white light and healing love, i felt energy tingling and pulsating, and when looked down not only had the bleeding stopped but the skin had re knitted itself completely! there was no scar. this shocked and amazed me, but now, i know it to be, any one that doubts it, does not know it to be, so their ideas can vacillate on weather it happened or not, mine cant. i know. so to go to your question, i could not ask a slave to change a knowing anymore that i could ask him to change his eye color. but if he was invested in beliefs that did not serve him or limited him in any way then i see it as part of my role to shift them over time and with patience.

Padriag -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 10:02:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: One lass here on CM refused to talk to me because I live in a "red state." I wasn't even sure what she was talking about until she explained it was about which way the electoral college voted last presidential election. To me that is still one of the dumbest excuses not to speak to a potential dom I've heard yet. It isn't stupid if she was the one that was expected to spend time there and/or live there if there was a spark. Some people do not want to live in conservative areas, I am one of them. It is stupid to judge an entire state based on the vote of the electoral college in one election which does not reflect either individuals in that state nor any particular area of the state. Its judging people based on the vote of the electoral college. You don't know what the area I live in is like, and neither did she, because neither of you have ever been here or lived here. To refuse to even speak to someone on that basis demonstrates a level of close-minded, judgemental attitude that I'm at a loss to call anything other than stupid. Such an attitude ignores who I am as a person, or for that matter the community I live in. It disregards all the good qualities I possess, the wonderful things I have to offer, purely on the basis of which state I happen to live in. It disregards and disrespects all the other good people who live here as well. Its writing off an entire state as being "bad people" based on a hugely uninformed opinion. Its tantamount to someone saying that because you are white and blond you must be a dumb rich bitch. Or saying that because you live in California you must be a drug addicted, lazy, hippy, surfer chick. Or someone saying that because I'm an atheist I must be an immoral person with no values, or better still (and this actually happened), one person assumed that because I'm an atheist I must therefore also be a satanist (which still leaves me scratching my head at how they made that leap). Such statements are ridiculous and have no basis in fact, they are irrational and wrong! You have a conservative republican as governor... does that make you red or blue? Does that make your community automatically republican or democrat? Does it in fact have anything to do with who you are or how you live or whether where you live is a nice place or not? Fact is, it doesn't. From someone who has in the past made statements about how important it is that we judge a person for who they are, and not by superficial things, I'm a bit surprised you'd try to defend such a stance. But that's fine if you want to be that shallow, as the lass I meantioned apparently is, that's your choice. And you'll miss out on knowing a pretty neat guy (if I do say so myself). As for living here, you'll remain ignorant of a wide range of things, like the local artist community, the fact that most of the people who live around the lake are not natives of this county or state; and in fact are mostly from California or Florida (apparently when people from CA want to relax, they come here!). That this county, like this state, is made up of a wide range of people from all races and walks of life... and to label it (or any other state) as being only one thing, is to completely misunderstand the people who live here. It does a disservice to those people, who are native americans, african americans, mexicans, koreans, vietnamese, east indian hindi (we even have a large budhist temple here which is open to the public), and a variety of other ethnic groups (including one crazy Irishman). Pretty cosmopolitan for a county with a population under 250,000... and amazingly we manage to get along, rednecks, republicans and democrats included. Besides which you can get the best BBQ on the east coast here. But gee... what's all that compared to being an icky red state... what was I thinking... the vote of the electoral college in a single election is far more important than all that other neat stuff... So like I said, pretty stupid to judge people that way. But then, call me crazy (I mean since I live in a red state I must be crazy to say this...) but I believe we ought to get to know a person before we judge them, and we ought to judge them for who they are, not where they live. But then its me an the unicorns, cause I must be a mythical creature. I mean, an athiest who apparently does have values and morals... why we all know that's just not possible. And since I live in a red state I must be one of those conservative bastards out to grind people in to poverty while amassing obsene amounts of wealth and stripping away every last vestige of human rights... right? On behalf of myself and my state... thanks for judging us, we really appreciate that. You can have CA with its smog, earthquakes, violence and drug problems. I'll just stay where I am with the low crime rate, terra firma that actually is, clean air, and lots of nice people who still open doors for each other and are generally pretty easy to get along with. Hey, we even have a local vineyard too! Can't imagine why so many Californians are moving here...

juliaoceania -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 10:10:57 AM)
I will simply say this, I have to live under the laws of a state that is conservative. I do not want to, and it has nothing to do with the many people that live around you or you. I chose to stay within my state when looking for a Dom, I found one in my state. I am a native of this state, and I love it here, why would I want to permanently relocate elsewhere? It is not personal is my point, it has nothing to do with you as a human being that someone may not want to meet you because of where you live. I am sure there are men that live and work in Saudi Arabia that would be wonderful to mate with, I wouldn't want to live there anyways. It is not shallow for someone to understand there are certain places on the planet that they would not want to exist. The smoking thread is a prime example of what I am talking about. Where I live I do not have to put up with second hand smoke in the course of living my life, in another state I might have to...if that is a shallow view to you, I guess I cannot change your mind, but I still think that people should live in the places they are most at ease with... and most people DO. On Edit I wanted to add that people assume things about me based upon my looks, educational level, and the place I live all the time. I do not really care about that and have come to accept it as a fact of life, it certainly doesn't make me angry for the most part, unless those misperceptions affect my pocketbook, then I tend to get a little pissy about them (such as people assuming that I am too dumb for a job because I am blond and big busted).

SusanofO -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 10:20:17 AM)
Well I think I'd probably have to believe most of the same things they did as far as "core" beliefs go, or else we might end up not really listening to eachother much. I consider these to be: Religion, politics and also basic life out-look. I'd have a problem being with someone who was always completely negative and pessimistic, for example. I don't care about little things like favorite colors or foods, etc. Finances are a big deal also. I refuse to become involved with another tightwad. And I am not a spendthrift or particularly materialistic, either. I think I'd have a problem with someone who never, ever donated anything to charity. I guess the biggest problem I'd have, though, is with someone who actually had little reason for the things they did believe, but expected me to believe them too. I am old enough to have really thought through the things I really truly believe - and there are only a couple of them, too. But I really do believe those things. I do know people, though, who are just blindly wending their way through life, and are spouting a belief in things the say they believe that they really haven't thought them through and figured out if there is a good reason to believe these things for themsleves. It's just what their parents believed, or what they were taught in school, for example, and thye haven't thought about them all that much. To expect to influence my thinking with that kind of superficial belief system would be futile. I personally think it's better to say "I don't know" than to believe something that makes little sense, or that cannot be proved. But some believe they have to have an opinion about everything, regardless of whether they can prove it or it makes sense to say instead " I don't know". I have trouble communicating w/people like that. - Susan

Taylore -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 10:37:18 AM)
Master is a southern Baptist; I am a devout Catholic. Master hunts for sport; I abhore hunting of any kind for any reason. Master is a Republican; I am a Democrat. Master enjoys country music; I think its boring and uninspiring. I enjoy classical music; Master thinks its boring and should only be used for elevators. Yet, with all these differences in our beliefs and likes/dislikes, we have made our relationship work for 3 years. We debate religion, politics, my dislike of hunting, our differences in music, etc. Never, has Master told me that I MUST change what I believe in for him so that our relationship would be easier. And I would never think that he should do so for me. Because of our differences, our relationship is that much better. I respect that which he enjoys and lives by, and Master does the same for me. We do not argue about these differences; however, we frequently have some very enlightnening debates and discussions.

zumala -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 11:08:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Speaking from experience......a conservative vanilla.......bad, very bad Had the same experience... and it is why I am so adamant about this issue now..smiles What I am about to say, I say with a very heavy heart. I was raised by conservative vanilla parents. I have since grown and learned to use my own mind. They aren't really that nuts about my shift in world view, or my willingness to debate with them. It's created distance, that's for sure. Yes, I'm Christian. But I'm not mindless. I think Bush is a greedy liar, I believe big business is a bad thing if it's running the show, I don't think war for the sake of greed or religion is a good thing, I believe the environment needs protecting. I'm a biologist/ecologist by training. I'm... everything they are not. Sometimes it hurts. zuma

SusanofO -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 11:15:23 AM)
re to what zumala said: It doesn't really bother me if people believe things I don't (hell that's about 90% of the world, at least) - it bothers me when it seems to irritate them or get them angry, and they want to debate with me about it, supposedly to change my beliefs or defend their own. Why do people do this? Geezuz - the last bastion of freedom people have is the one inside their own heads. Can't they just believe what they do, and leave other people alone? - Susan

juliaoceania -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 11:20:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO re to what zumala said: It doesn't really bother me if people believe things I don't (hell that's about 90% of the world, at least) - it bothers me when it seems to irritate them or get them angry, and they want to debate with me about it, supposedly to change my beliefs or defend their own. Why do people do this? Geezuz - the last bastion of freedom people have is the one inside their own heads. Can't they just believe what they do, and leave other people alone? - Susan I have a brother that is a Fundie, and he cannot just enjoy time with me without trying to convert me to his religion and political views. It makes me sad that we cannot just enjoy each other's company and every time we spend more than a few hours together it ends up with me yelling at him just to stop ramming his worldview down my unwilling throat. If I refuse to be baited then he debates my son in front of me to bait me... So I refuse to spend more than a couple of hours with him anymore. I have tried ignoring him, agreeing with him to shut him up, I have even tried to debate him, nothing works because he wants to win me to God...sighs

LaTigresse -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 11:21:25 AM)
zuma, I empathize. Differences in politics, religioun, lifestyle have all created huge chasms in some of my family relationships. They no longer feel they know me, which is quite sad. I feel I know myself better than I ever have.

onestandingstill -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 11:24:17 AM)
While I don't necessarily think it's a requirement to be the same, or think the same as my partner, I do feel what I eat is something a Dom should have control over if I belong to him. If being vegetarian is a hard limit you absolutley will not do I say you should mention it up front. If it came up later and was absolutley important my choice would only be to obey or be released. I'd be veggie for the one I served if I had one and he wanted it that way, but man wouldn't I miss a big fat T-Bone steak. Suzanne

SusanofO -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 11:25:54 AM)
julia and zumala: You have my sympathy. My mother used to listen to Rush Limbaugh before she died. She worshipped him and never missed his radio show. I just could not believe it - this was an educated, intelligent woman. I had a hard time with it, because she would argue w/other people all the time about how right he was, and at one time she had been a lot more liberal in her views. My father just rolled his eyes and chalked it up to the meds she was taking (he). I think my middle sister is a lot like her. She thinks all homosexuals are going to burn in Hell. I asked her why God would make a creature just so He could burn them in Hell. She can't answer me, but she still believes it. - Susan

zumala -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 11:31:46 AM)
Thanks, LaTigresse. It's difficult because I feel like I don't belong anywhere. I'm still trying to work out some of my own beliefs, although some are firmly established and won't go anywhere. On a sidenote... I used to abhore hunting as well. Then I went to college and I allowed myself the use logic as well as my heart. I believe sport hunting is disgusting, but to hunt for food is not only acceptable but a good thing. It can be somewhat spiritual, really, when you look at it. Predator and prey is the way the world was designed to function. When a certain number of prey are not killed, disease and starvation happen. Population control is important for the health of the species. It's inhumane to kill off the predators and leave the prey to over-multiply. Of course, I also believe it's wrong to kill the predators off in the first place. zuma

windy135 -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 11:39:03 AM)
quote: My question is...do you feel that your partner needs to have the same code or if theirs differs do you feel that they have to realign theirs to sync with yours? Especially in the case of Dominants...do you feel that if your submissive/slave does not realign themselves to match yourself....do you see that as insubordinate or unsubmissive behavior? I love to discuss and argue on diverse issues. What it comes down to is at the end of the discussion where two people do not agree on the same issue there is an understanding. The two people need to be able to stop and think, ok I don’t agree with this person but I can show consideration for their difference of opinion. I love to be pushed and push people into validating their opinion. I’ve been known to take on a person and misrepresent my personal feelings only to deepen the conversation. When I finally tell them that I agree with everything they said, they will shake their head or ask why I was being an ass J For me it’s not important for all the codes to correspond.

Tamerofwild1s -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 12:01:47 PM)
just thought I would throw this out there for all you non hunters to jump on .. hunting for food has been the way it was since the first man learned to walk on 2 legs. and in some countries even today its a ritualistic hunting that takes place as they believe if they kill a lion and eat it's heart the soul and spirit of the lion will enter them and make them a great warrior. even sport hunting is done by many for ritualistic reasons . the more trophys you have the better warrior you are . the stronger on the food chain you are .... for some it merely boasts there survival of the fittest roles

porcelaine -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 12:26:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin My question is...do you feel that your partner needs to have the same code or if theirs differs do you feel that they have to realign theirs to sync with yours? Especially in the case of Dominants...do you feel that if your submissive/slave does not realign themselves to match yourself....do you see that as insubordinate or unsubmissive behavior? I believe we should have a value system that compliments on key issues. However, no two people are the same and differences should and will occur. I'm of the mindset that we choose the flaws we can live with going in. I expect my partner to be cultured and this is something I won't bend on. Therefore I have two choices. Find someone with a level of culture that matches or exceeds mine, or be willing to teach someone the things I enjoy with the understanding that individual may not embrace them in the long run. While the first offers obvious advantages, the second is a risk and one I choose to accept if I decide to become involved with that person. I don't desire a clone. I believe the things that separate us provide a unique way to learn, share, and grow. Aligning myself to someone's will and becoming a wind up doll are very different extremes. I have never believed that being a submissive equated one to the whims of a self professed puppetmaster. But then again, to each his own. porcelaine

losttreasure -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 7:31:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY ...One of the great attractions for me, of losttreasure, is that we have very, very, very few areas of disagreement in ANY core or non-core area... FHky Hmmm... I'm not so certain, my darling dom... your sadistic enjoyment of mashed potatos that have been abused just might turn out to be a deal breaker. [;)]

crouchingtigress -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 7:35:53 PM)
just loves when couples entwine on-line ....delightful. devine.[;)] keep it up you two.... quote: ORIGINAL: losttreasure quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY ...One of the great attractions for me, of losttreasure, is that we have very, very, very few areas of disagreement in ANY core or non-core area... FHky Hmmm... I'm not so certain, my darling dom... your sadistic enjoyment of mashed potatos that have been abused just might turn out to be a deal breaker. [;)]

juliaoceania -> RE: Beliefs (8/17/2006 7:37:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tamerofwild1s even sport hunting is done by many for ritualistic reasons . the more trophys you have the better warrior you are . the stronger on the food chain you are .... for some it merely boasts there survival of the fittest roles No it does not show what a great warrior you are because having a high powered scope rifle is no sporting way to kill an animal. Now if you armed the animals or took the guns from the hunter I might agree with you

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