Little by little, attempts to control

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Kedikat -> Little by little, attempts to control (8/12/2006 6:37:45 PM)
http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/050806WA.shtml People say the religious folks aren't trying to meddle in things? The things in this story point out that they are trying in small steps to completely control sexuality and our choices on reproduction. The current political atmosphere is conducive to letting it happen.

MmakeMme -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/12/2006 7:14:39 PM)
One group after another has been trying to control sex and reproduction for years and it hasn't worked yet. The more such puritanical nonsense is, pardon the expression, thrust in the public's collective face, the more it's going to happen. Or maybe that's just me, rebellious to the core.

Kedikat -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/12/2006 7:17:15 PM)
And http://www.alternet.org/story/18259/

LotusSong -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/12/2006 7:19:45 PM)
Very upsetting. Thanks for sharing though.

Daddy4UdderSlut -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/12/2006 8:47:03 PM)
I don't think the Catholic church has any moral authority to speak out on anything. From the organization that has given rise to the stereotype of the pedophile priest, and that has had official policy complict in those despicable and criminal acts - I think the lot of them should be rotting in prison, not issuing moral edicts. Here is a story describing yet another letter from a Pope (now the new Pope, Ratzinger), instructing bishops to handle claims of sexual abuse, and even confessions, quietly and internally, without involving the law: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1469055,00.html

captiveplatypus -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/12/2006 8:52:55 PM)
I didn't read the links but I've thought from time to time it would be a good idea to have mandatory birth control and have the government approve couples for having kids, simply because I have seen far too many spectacularly crappy parents, and the results of their parenting was generally more crappy people. Orwelian, I know, but I must admit toying with the thought. Plus it would curb abortion if birth control were enforced.

Lashra -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/12/2006 9:04:08 PM)
I've been saying for years that the religious zealots in this country are trying to control all of our lives. Little by little that's all it takes. All of us here would be considered mentally ill degenerates by their standards. They aren't so different from the religious whackos from other countries, just give them time they are headed that way. ~Lashra

popeye1250 -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/12/2006 9:05:25 PM)
Holy Rollers? I just tell them to go screw themselves.

MmakeMme -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/13/2006 3:10:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus I've thought from time to time it would be a good idea to have mandatory birth control and have the government approve couples for having kids, simply because I have seen far too many spectacularly crappy parents, and the results of their parenting was generally more crappy people. Orwelian, I know, but I must admit toying with the thought. Plus it would curb abortion if birth control were enforced. Dangerous ground. Who would get to reproduce? Who is superior? Who defines "crappy"? I'd rather the government keep its hands out of my reproducer.

meatcleaver -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/13/2006 4:20:35 AM)
Only fools don't realise that religion is about social control and the justification of base motives and that it has nothing to do with worshiping a diety.

Pimpernell -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/13/2006 4:27:24 AM)
Religion has been used to fight social control just as much as it has been used to justify social control. Without religion there would still be people trying to control our entire lives. In fact, most politicians do not use religion as an excuse to control your life. They talk about social good or people's personal good. It wasn't that long ago that atheist judges in the US were having people sterlised.

ShiftedJewel -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/13/2006 6:49:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MmakeMme quote: ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus I've thought from time to time it would be a good idea to have mandatory birth control and have the government approve couples for having kids, simply because I have seen far too many spectacularly crappy parents, and the results of their parenting was generally more crappy people. Orwelian, I know, but I must admit toying with the thought. Plus it would curb abortion if birth control were enforced. Dangerous ground. Who would get to reproduce? Who is superior? Who defines "crappy"? I'd rather the government keep its hands out of my reproducer. *I totally agree and would ask the question... so, what's the next part of your personal life you would like the government to control? After all, they aren't gonna stop at just a little control.* There are a few of us that see it for what it is... total control of our lives.. but at our age there isn't a lot we can do... proactively I mean. The one thing we CAN do is teach the younger generations... it's gonna be up to them someday to fix the crap the government is doing now and if they are raised to believe it's ok to take away the personal freedoms of the American people... ANY of the personal freedoms then there will be no one to fight. There's a part of me that says that's ok since I won't be here to see it (most likely). But then I realize that I raised my kids to fight to keep the government out of our personal lives and in my heart I know what a struggle it's gonna be for them. The good news is.. well, maybe it's good news... there are a LOT of people out there that are fighting the good fight, that are standing up for those rights and personal freedoms that so many of you would let go at the drop of a biblical quote, and they are teaching their kids and grandkids... and that makes me feel better. *Jewel*

meatcleaver -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/13/2006 7:02:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pimpernell Religion has been used to fight social control just as much as it has been used to justify social control. Without religion there would still be people trying to control our entire lives. In fact, most politicians do not use religion as an excuse to control your life. They talk about social good or people's personal good. It wasn't that long ago that atheist judges in the US were having people sterlised. I didn't say politicians used religion as a form of social control, religion is more insidious than that, it is rather like a virus. My friend whose father died when he was a child was always kept in line when he had the urge to stray by his mother telling him, his father wouldn't have approved. It later dawned on him that he could never ask his father if he approved of his behaviour or not because his father was dead but it was his mother using this none existent authority figure to keep control. Such is religion, it validates peoples lives by imposing the same values on others. Once you get rid of the non-existent authority figure you have to take responsibility for your own existentional actions.

MmakeMme -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/13/2006 8:01:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver I didn't say politicians used religion as a form of social control, religion is more insidious than that, it is rather like a virus. My friend whose father died when he was a child was always kept in line when he had the urge to stray by his mother telling him, his father wouldn't have approved. It later dawned on him that he could never ask his father if he approved of his behaviour or not because his father was dead but it was his mother using this none existent authority figure to keep control. Such is religion, it validates peoples lives by imposing the same values on others. Once you get rid of the non-existent authority figure you have to take responsibility for your own existentional actions. However, one's religious choice is a personal decision. It isn't imposed on anyone by way of legislation, and hopefully one chooses the religion that most closely matches one's own philosophies. The church I choose to attend doesn't impose itself on anyone or castigate others for having different beliefs. It works well for me but won't work for others. It's all a matter of preference.

meatcleaver -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/13/2006 8:13:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MmakeMme quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver I didn't say politicians used religion as a form of social control, religion is more insidious than that, it is rather like a virus. My friend whose father died when he was a child was always kept in line when he had the urge to stray by his mother telling him, his father wouldn't have approved. It later dawned on him that he could never ask his father if he approved of his behaviour or not because his father was dead but it was his mother using this none existent authority figure to keep control. Such is religion, it validates peoples lives by imposing the same values on others. Once you get rid of the non-existent authority figure you have to take responsibility for your own existentional actions. However, one's religious choice is a personal decision. It isn't imposed on anyone by way of legislation, and hopefully one chooses the religion that most closely matches one's own philosophies. The church I choose to attend doesn't impose itself on anyone or castigate others for having different beliefs. It works well for me but won't work for others. It's all a matter of preference. If religion was an intellectually considered and personal choice, one would expect to find a scattering of various religions throughout the world, giving a speckled effect. Instead one finds great monolithic blocks of religion which suggests that choice of religion is more to do with socialisation. Even where there is a scattering of religion it is more to do with emigration than people giving intellectual consideration to their choice of religion. If what you suggest is true, then there wouldn't be an opportunity for neocons to shout about a clash of cultures/religions.

Dauric -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/13/2006 8:47:46 AM)
Religion as a persoal choice is a historically recent convention. In the Middle Ages if you weren't christian you would be unable ot function inside the society at large. I forget the name of the monarch, but one paticular example of a momnarch excommunicated led to him needing to crawl his way up the steps of the Vatican to get back in the good gracs of the church. The same holds true for the rest of the world, and has held true in the United States well up 'till thirty, fourty years ago. I'm not entirely certain on this, perhaps someone in the U.K. can confirm, but I believe that that attitude changed in England and much of Europe before it did in the U.S. Even as far as my father's generation, he had immense family pressure to have the same religion as his parents. I'm fortunate enough that he's a smart guy and broke free of that yoke, and never saddled me with one. $0.02 Dauric.

meatcleaver -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/13/2006 8:56:46 AM)
Western Europe, particularly north-western Europe (with small pockets of resistence) have over the last thirty or forty years have become profoundly secular societies which is why they view the fundemental christians in America with horror, we have ceased to understand them.

amayos -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/13/2006 10:48:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kedikat People say the religious folks aren't trying to meddle in things? Oh, do rest assured that conservative religious fundamentalists are indeed attempting to socially re-engineer American society—or perhaps reform it to some imaginary time of "the good old days" would be a better way of putting it. It's not too difficult to keep one's finger upon their pulse; Focus on the Family, Amercian Center for Law and Justice and "Concerned Women" for America are just a few Christian organizations off the top of my head which have voices on-line and on-radio, generating propagandist media and influencing law as much as they possibly can. It ill behooves us not to pay attention and proactively offer counterstroke.

popeye1250 -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/13/2006 11:34:42 AM)
All religions are about "control." No big surprise there.

Daddy4UdderSlut -> RE: Little by little, attempts to control (8/13/2006 11:55:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 All religions are about "control." No big surprise there. "The first priest was the first rogue who met the first fool" ...Voltaire ;-)

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