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The Two-Party Political System - 8/9/2006 6:45:45 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		In a typical majority two-party system the vote is always about putting in office the lesser of two evils, or voting for candidates down party lines. Can you foresee one of the "lesser parties" ever winning a major office? Have you ever voted for someone outside the Big Two? (I have - several times.)

< Message edited by MmakeMme -- 8/9/2006 6:46:11 PM >

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/9/2006 6:51:47 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

In a typical majority two-party system the vote is always about putting in office the lesser of two evils, or voting for candidates down party lines. Can you foresee one of the "lesser parties" ever winning a major office? Have you ever voted for someone outside the Big Two? (I have - several times.)


Nope.. at best they are "spoilers" presently.  But one never knows.  They way I look at it.. every party has two ways to vote on something - librtal or conservative.  So no matter what party we are speaking of.. (you could have 5)  they all will vote along with one or the other.

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/9/2006 6:54:26 PM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		I haven't voted for any of the big two in about twelve years.

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/9/2006 7:51:28 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
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From: NC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Nope.. at best they are "spoilers" presently.  But one never knows.  They way I look at it.. every party has two ways to vote on something - librtal or conservative.  So no matter what party we are speaking of.. (you could have 5)  they all will vote along with one or the other.


I'd like our politicians to vote common sense ... but that may be asking too much. It would be ideal to have someone in office with a set of cranium-size clanking brass balls who didn't give a shit if Party Say No if a non-party action was best for the country.

And so many party turncoats. Ohhhhh, annoying. If you can't win the republicans, lie down with democrats; if you can't win the democrats, go to bed with republicans. Either way, somebody's gonna wake up with fleas. Nobody believes a damn thing - it's all about winning.

That's the thing I like about the libs. Duuuuuude, chill. Sit down, smoke a joint, have a burger, we'll all be ok. It could stop a war, I tell ya.

< Message edited by MmakeMme -- 8/9/2006 7:52:17 PM >

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Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/9/2006 11:01:54 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Yes, I do think that another party could win due to the fact that people are so fed up with Democrats and Republicans both.

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/9/2006 11:32:34 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		The people who are fed up with the parties so often seem to be the ones who know the least about politics and the issues.  They also are rarely found campaigning for candidates they believe in or donating money.

I vote Democrat not because they  are the lessor of two evils but because they are on the side of good, I just wish they were more good.

I work for candidates whom I believe in, I would have worked for Dole against Gore but Bush smeared a WWII vets honor and so I never got the chance.  I have worked for Green party candidates and would work on a Republican's if they would stand for being fiscally responsible and support small effective government.

Working on a campaing can and does make a difference.  I am currently working on a campaign to unseat a sitting long time Republican in national office in the '06 election and we went from long shot to close call and things are looking good.

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 12:01:26 AM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		We have a few viable federal parties in Canada.
And the temperance of having minority governments.
There is a definite regional pattern and flavour to our voting. This can add a good balance to even a majority government here.
We can and often do punish the Liberal party by puting them into a minority position. But we tend to keep with them as a main governing force. The variety of parties allows a greater variety in how we wish to be governed. A little of this a dash of that. Usually a good mix. The large size of many of our provinces, their wealths and their layout also causes the provincial governments to have a good deal of power compared to the federal government.

I almost always vote Liberal federally, but often for the more left New Democratic Party provincially. I am a member of the provincial and federal Liberal parties. And work on campaigns sometimes.

I am curious if there is more variety in party choice at the US state level. More independants at least? I seldom look into the state level party representation and types in the US.



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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 12:04:44 AM   
UtopianRanger


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quote:

n a typical majority two-party system the vote is always about putting in office the lesser of two evils, or voting for candidates down party lines. Can you foresee one of the "lesser parties" ever winning a major office? Have you ever voted for someone outside the Big Two? (I have - several times.)


  Why not forget about the two parties?  Take fifteen minutes out of a day and do a little research.....And then vote for the candidate with least PAC money in his/her coffers. Keeping in mind that you also want to avoid self-funded candidates like John Corizine.

We're fairly close to seeing World War III become reality.... so even if you don't particulary identify with a mostly unknown candidate because he doesn't tell you what you want to hear on the television, remember that he probably couldn't be much worse than what we have right now....


JMHO


 - R
     

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 12:40:16 AM   
Kedikat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

n a typical majority two-party system the vote is always about putting in office the lesser of two evils, or voting for candidates down party lines. Can you foresee one of the "lesser parties" ever winning a major office? Have you ever voted for someone outside the Big Two? (I have - several times.)


  Why not forget about the two parties?  Take fifteen minutes out of a day and do a little research.....And then vote for the candidate with least PAC money in his/her coffers. Keeping in mind that you also want to avoid self-funded candidates like John Corizine.

We're fairly close to seeing World War III become reality.... so even if you don't particulary identify with a mostly unknown candidate because he doesn't tell you what you want to hear on the television, remember that he probably couldn't be much worse than what we have right now....


JMHO


 - R
     


Even better, get involved in the first level of picking the candidate of your chosen party. That's your first vote. And it will help insure it is the very least of two evils later on. So few vote for the party's choice to run in the actual campaign.

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 12:55:04 AM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
The people who are fed up with the parties so often seem to be the ones who know the least about politics and the issues.  .

I vote xxxxxxx  because they are on the side of good,


First quote is definately true    err Mr Crappy. You frequently see comments along the lines of " why dont politicians get together and --- do whatever the complainant wants.---"
Your second quote it seems to me contains just such an error. though your are not asking for consensus just that YOU believe in and are on the side of GOOD.
Dont we/aren't we all.   lol

Amazing; who does all the naughty things then.


< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 8/10/2006 12:56:09 AM >

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 3:05:45 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

In a typical majority two-party system the vote is always about putting in office the lesser of two evils, or voting for candidates down party lines. Can you foresee one of the "lesser parties" ever winning a major office? Have you ever voted for someone outside the Big Two? (I have - several times.)


I've voted Libertarian and Green before, and yes, I think a third party can win, but it will be an uphill battle. The little pigs in DC don't want that to happen, you know...

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 4:30:51 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
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Status: offline 		The problem is that the electoral-college system makes it hard for a third party to make any headway, at least at the presidential level.  A third-party candidate has to carry an entire state in order to get any electoral votes at all.  The rules are stacked against third parties.

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 4:53:01 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

The problem is that the electoral-college system makes it hard for a third party to make any headway, at least at the presidential level.  A third-party candidate has to carry an entire state in order to get any electoral votes at all.  The rules are stacked against third parties.


Morning, Lam. You're right about that, and didn't they pass some rule making it near impossible for a third-party canidate to get in the debates? After Perot ran, I'm thinking....

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 5:22:34 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Yep I've been a member of the Green party for awhile now.

~Lashra

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 5:50:54 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Well there are a few thousand elected offcials from the libertarian party in office right now, they are mostly local and state offices right now, but I can see that changing quickly based on the financial irresponsibility that both major parties have shown. Lets not forget that the Financial Responsibility card has only been available to the Democrats since after the Republicans took control of the house for the first time in a few decades in 96. So their screams for responsible spending fall on deaf ears with me. I had hoped that smaller government and reduced spending that the Republicans ran on for so long would actually come to pass but it hasn't.

I've voted for the Libertarian candidate for just about any office where the personal beliefs of the candidates was unknown to me based on the less government is better concept. Voted for Badnarik last election for president but I had that luxury since my state was not a swing state.

Government is a nessisary evil, there is no "Good Guys". The Republicans are far too interested in what I do in my sex life and the Democrates are far to interested in what i do on my own property.
Niether party has any clue what freedom means, differing only in which of my freedoms they want to curtail.




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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 9:02:17 AM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat


I am curious if there is more variety in party choice at the US state level. More independants at least? I seldom look into the state level party representation and types in the US.



There are always libertarians and independents on the ticket where I live, for state seats at least, and sometimes in House & Senate races; but when all the precints report, these folks get single-digit numbers, and not high singles either. I'll do some research on this (yeah, in all my spare time - remind me. Um. Please. MasterSirWonderfulManlyKedi) to see how it has fleshed out in the past.

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Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 9:18:18 AM   
cynthiaanne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Yes, I do think that another party could win due to the fact that people are so fed up with Democrats and Republicans both.


we need a strong labor party....or perhaps a Respect Party and a George Galloway???http://www.respectcoalition.org

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 10:13:38 AM   
rook42


Posts: 110
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, I have. The problem is that our voting system was designed under the assumption that people will vote for what they believe to be the best candidate. What you'll hear though, if you vote third party, is "Why waste your vote?". Quite annoying.

There's a network externality in that the power of ones own vote is determined by what others are voting for; as such, who is voted for is not based on a static concept of "who is better" to each consumer- it's based on the feedback mechanism of who they think is better that will get elected if they vote for them. In this case, the choice of the consumer is affected by the choices of other players, and people may mutually vote for a bad candidate anticipating the voting of the "opposition" for a worse candidate.  This was not the intention of our founding fathers, as they truly believed that it was as simple as "vote for who you believe is better".

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 12:40:56 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		I have never felt that voting for a third party candidate was wasting a vote, although I have heard it often because I am quite open about my dislike of the Two-Party. Two candidates don't offer much by way of choice, and I am pro choice. In more ways than one. At times, I have used the third party candidate as my "vote of no confidence".

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Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

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RE: The Two-Party Political System - 8/10/2006 12:51:42 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I think "lordandm" hit the nail on the head - the problem is the system. Its the same in the UK with first past the post - the system basically makes it impossible for our third party to get a look in.

I know PR (proportional representation) is not ideal, but it would allow one to vote for the party one chooses and have some chance of it meaning something.

PR is often done down for producing "weak" coalition governments - however such governments have to take into account a wider view which tends to hinder the sort of craziness we have right now with our "strong" government (meaning a government where our leaders dont need to listen to any of us)

E

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