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RE: Harm - 8/10/2006 1:11:01 AM

Wolfie648

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Often there are statements made that essentially say, I will do what I want as long as I am not harming anyone. Even my Lord’s code is “Do my will; harm none”.

What is harm? What do you consider to be harmful, physically, mentally and emotionally?

I am assuming nothing except the things that are against TOS to mention anyway, so those can go without saying.

Knight's kyra

Originally I used to say:

"Never _knowingly_ harm someone against their will."
You just can't account for the odd remark/action that will set someone off. Especially when dealing with other cultures.

I particularly enjoy the ones that give me permission to harm ;-) (People not cultures)

D (owner of j).

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RE: Harm - 8/10/2006 3:07:09 AM

mons

Posts: 2400
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greetings to all

harm to me is when a dominant knows his or her submissive or slave will do anything to please them or to stay in good agreement with them, things they know are wrong but becasue the submissive will do it just to please. sharing them, hurting them so much they can not sit or stand for days after. i heard of one who was ask by a dom to eat bowel movement which i thought was strang doms do not do this at least i never heard of it .
no safe word. those are things i think are not only dangerous but so emotional harmful to the slave or submissive this is not love

mons

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Post #: 42

RE: Harm - 8/10/2006 3:10:18 AM

sharainks

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Joined: 12/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

My belief is that the person I am engaged with should never leave any encounter with me...whether it be conversational or physical...feeling regret that they've had that encounter with me or feeling less than what they were before that encounter, whether that "less" be in mind, body, or spirit. They can be angry because they disagree, or they didn't like what I did consensually, or they can be sad because maybe they did not get to play fully at what they wanted to play at, etc...but they will not be less.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exactly, one can end a scene with budding bruises, sore, well used, and happy, content, relaxed, and feeling much more "human". The dominant can feel good about what happened, fulfilling his own needs while filling the subs as well. IMO a scene that goes well leaves both feeling like more rather than less.

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Post #: 43

RE: Harm - 8/10/2006 7:20:42 AM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

I'm afraid that this kind of approach might just move the question back a step. "causes negative long-lasting or permanant consequences" is an expression which needs to be understood just as the word "harm" does.

I agree.... if one was seeking a univeral or general understanding of what harm is. But as been stated before... harm is rather subjective and I do believe those involved with dynamic relationships together would serve themself well if they engage in a dialogue to gain a mutual understanding between them. So in actual fact... my statement is a step forward. I causes my partner and myself to consider what is negative... and what would be long-term.. and even what is consequences. We move to the emotional and to the physical as well as the mental and some consideration to the spirtual. Do we consider our moral and value principles that we do not wish to be compromised.. does that cause harm to us? For some maybe not.. so other it could very well be.

General questions within this board, discussion groups and other like situations are useful in that we have an oportunity to contribute our own perspective on an issue. But, I don't believe that we should ever approach these issues with intent or desire to establish universal definitive answers. I am personally of the view that we could say "It's Subjective" in most cases. Stating it's subjective is not much differrent than saying "each individual has their own opinion"... well no shit! However, this subjectivity or personal perspectives of others can be useful in providing different perspectives for ourselves and others in considering our own subjective worlds. The whole point of this dialogue and like many others is not for universal application... but very possibly as you stated

quote:

....I do think it well that people are putting their mind to this question of harm. Even if we can't arrive at a general understanding this thread might lead to conversations between partners (or eventual partners) in which some important undestandings will be shared.

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Post #: 44

RE: Harm - 8/10/2006 7:37:35 AM

swtnsparkling

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quote:

I believe that the line of "harm" gets crossed when one person is doing anything non consensually to another that causes that person negative and lasting consequence. The pivotal deciding point is the agreement between the two parties. If that agreement is breached in an intentional and deliberate manner and consequences to the other party are suffered as a result...in my opinion that is harm.

Yes, Complete agreement
Thank You

< Message edited by swtnsparkling -- 8/10/2006 7:44:03 AM >

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A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please

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Post #: 45

RE: Harm - 8/10/2006 2:17:20 PM

gandalf0297

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any crossing over the line of mutual consent is harm.

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Post #: 46

RE: Harm - 8/10/2006 2:32:48 PM

MistressSophia

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Not knowing yourself,before you offer yourself !

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Post #: 47

RE: Harm - 8/12/2006 1:01:38 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressSophia

Not knowing yourself,before you offer yourself !

Isn't offering yourself a wonderful way to learn yourself?

Whether you mean offerring yourself to help with cleaning up after an event (a dinner or a hurricane) or whether you mean offerring yourself to another in a personal relationship I can hardly envision that to offer oneself before knowing oneself is to do harm to oneself or to the other, per se.

I offerred myself as a parent long before could say I knew myself to any special degree. Parenting was one of the ways in which I learned however much it is of "myself" I can claim to know now.

Almost half way to hundred years old I'm ever so glad I started offering myself in all sorts of relationships--including kinky ones--a long time ago. I'm not convinced that I "know myself" yet.

I think I would take the opposing view, Sophie. Not to offer oneself until self-knowledge is accomplished would be to harm oneself and to harm by way of deprivation all those who might have enjoyed and benefitted from taking part in the learning with you.

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Post #: 48

RE: Harm - 8/12/2006 2:19:14 PM

WhipTheHip

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> What is harm? What do you consider to be harmful, physically, mentally and emotionally?

Slowly roasting a sub over an open flame. Connecting electrodes to her nipples and clit and
energizing them with 220v.

Seriously
1. Causing permanent damage to tissue.
2. Leaving permanent scars.
3. Disfigurement or permament damage to the body.
4. Intentional infliction of emotional pain.
5. Emotional trauma.
6. Going too far past a sub's limits.
7. Violating a hard limit.
8. Lowering the self-esteem of a sub.
9. Getting someone in legal trouble out of petty vindictiveness.
10. Stealing from them, getting them addicted to drugs or alcohol.
11. Not building their self-confidence.
12. Taking advantage of them.
13. Getting them to do something they really don't want to do that
might be harmful to their body or psyche.
14. I am sure this is just a partial list.

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Post #: 49

RE: Harm - 8/12/2006 2:47:46 PM

ExSteelAgain

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Philosophical debates aside, most know physical harm when they see it. Emotional harm is subtle, hidden and more treacherous. I’m glad you mentioned it. Trust means more than realizing a Dom will whip you safely.

Emotional harm is done in ways that the Dom will justify in his mind as being simply the way relationships go, even though he really knows he is turning it up continuously with understated actions.

I could go into detail, but I’m sure most of you know what I mean. You would be better off if you are sure the person has your well being at heart before you start. Yeah, knowing the other person well, trust and all that.

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Post #: 50