RE: Booze and Christianity

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ShreveportMaster -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/3/2006 2:25:48 PM)
Tal and greetings, Nowhere in scripture are those who are Believers commanded not to drink. We are commanded repeatedly to not get DRUNK, big difference. Now, if a person has the type of metabolic make-up that requires no more than a single glass of wine to get sloshed, that particular person should not drink. If someone is genetically predisposed to alcoholism, and knows it runs in their family, they also should not drink. I personally do not drink because I do not like the taste of alcohol. That being said, I will use wines and liquors in cooking. And I hate to burst some folks (tiny) bubbles, but the wine that Jesus made at the wedding feast was indeed the alcohlic fermented wine we know today. Wine, in Biblical Greek is only represented by two words. Oinos = Alcoholic fermented wine, and Glucos = unfermented fresh fruit juice. The word used in every description of the wedding feast at Gallilee is Oinos. You can verify this with any concordance, one need not be a Greek scholar to use such a reference tool. Also let it be said, I am about as far to the Right as you can get. Personal preference is one thing, but do not make the mistake of assuming God endorses your prejudices. Read the Book (Don't wait for the movie!) I wish you well, Shreve

windchymes -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/3/2006 3:31:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet Jesus turned water into wine. Jesus and his diciples drank wine. Many beers, spirits, and whisky brands originated from monks and monistaries. So how did alcohol end up becoming an evil brew that should not be drank. What makes the self rightous feel the proabition and dry counties are nesecery when the bibles main point about alcohol/wine is not to over endulge in it? It's because a lot of religious over-zealots enjoy the drama.

windchymes -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/3/2006 3:33:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShreveportMaster Tal and greetings, Nowhere in scripture are those who are Believers commanded not to drink. We are commanded repeatedly to not get DRUNK, big difference. Now, if a person has the type of metabolic make-up that requires no more than a single glass of wine to get sloshed, that particular person should not drink. If someone is genetically predisposed to alcoholism, and knows it runs in their family, they also should not drink. I personally do not drink because I do not like the taste of alcohol. That being said, I will use wines and liquors in cooking. And I hate to burst some folks (tiny) bubbles, but the wine that Jesus made at the wedding feast was indeed the alcohlic fermented wine we know today. Wine, in Biblical Greek is only represented by two words. Oinos = Alcoholic fermented wine, and Glucos = unfermented fresh fruit juice. The word used in every description of the wedding feast at Gallilee is Oinos. You can verify this with any concordance, one need not be a Greek scholar to use such a reference tool. Also let it be said, I am about as far to the Right as you can get. Personal preference is one thing, but do not make the mistake of assuming God endorses your prejudices. Read the Book (Don't wait for the movie!) I wish you well, Shreve It only makes sense. Back in biblical times, they didn't have refrigeration or commercial drink manufacturers. Pretty much all they had for long-term storage was something fermented.

mnottertail -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/3/2006 3:34:48 PM)
So my CB and cokes are not physical manifestation of Gods will and long suffering love towards me? Son of a BITCH!!!! I have been fooled again!!!! Ron

SirKenin -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/3/2006 3:39:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShreveportMasterAnd I hate to burst some folks (tiny) bubbles, but the wine that Jesus made at the wedding feast was indeed the alcohlic fermented wine we know today. Wine, in Biblical Greek is only represented by two words. Oinos = Alcoholic fermented wine, and Glucos = unfermented fresh fruit juice. The word used in every description of the wedding feast at Gallilee is Oinos. You can verify this with any concordance, one need not be a Greek scholar to use such a reference tool. Would you care to actually prove your point? Strong's Concordance is the world's foremost Greek concordance. The Strong's number for oinos is 3631. The definition states as follows: 1) wine 2) metaph. fiery wine of God's wrath

mnottertail -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/3/2006 3:49:37 PM)
Not to get too pedantic because this is a offshoot of a post that was less than optimally couched in the first place......... (and this is fast reply......not pointed at Kenin or anyone else for that matter) but after the days of the flood Noah planted a vinyard (canucks and americans as well as the rest of the hemisphere and sphere as well) would seem to indicate that this consisted of grapes, from there these daughters of Noah had made a strong drink (lets try to find out if this was welches or oceanspray) but he got drunk and passed out. They each in turn went in and knew him. This is how the world was repopulated after the little imbriglio of the flood which was a method god used to wipe out original sin....saving the righteous from destruction, a theme that is recurrent, sodom and gemorrah and so on............"But Lord, what if ten righteous men are found within?" ............anyways the incest nor the drunkeness was looked upon in bad light. Ron

Devilslilsister -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/3/2006 3:53:25 PM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Jesus actually did not turn water into the type of wine we know and enjoy today. That is a bit of a misconception. Nonetheless, I am a believer of the school of thought of "everything in moderation and nothing in excess". I believe it is the excess that God frowns upon. War in excess, often over religion, seems to be ok in God's book though. GG quote: Not to get too pedantic because this is a offshoot of a post that was less than optimally couched in the first place......... (and this is fast reply......not pointed at Kenin or anyone else for that matter) but after the days of the flood Noah planted a vinyard (canucks and americans as well as the rest of the hemisphere and sphere as well) would seem to indicate that this consisted of grapes, from there these daughters of Noah had made a strong drink (lets try to find out if this was welches or oceanspray) but he got drunk and passed out. They each in turn went in and knew him. This is how the world was repopulated after the little imbriglio of the flood which was a method god used to wipe out original sin....saving the righteous from destruction, a theme that is recurrent, sodom and gemorrah and so on............"But Lord, what if ten righteous men are found within?" ............anyways the incest nor the drunkeness was looked upon in bad light. Ron That was GOOD Ron. Ty for the laugh!! Very good. So is this where the whole Daddy/lil girl thing came from? Noah and his dirty daughters?

mnottertail -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/3/2006 4:00:25 PM)
Dirty Dancing II -- The Dirty Daughters........... This is BIG. I tell you. Ron

FangsNfeet -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/4/2006 8:08:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Fangs, look. The Assembly of God Baptists are fundamentalist right wingers. That is just the way it is. I hate to say it, though, but stef and dark are right. You do not know what you are talking about. Neither does the Assembly of God Baptists. The Bible does not forbid the drinking of wine. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach you that you can not drink. Perhaps they twist Proverbs 23:29-35 out of shape to fit their own needs. In Ephesians 5:18 is our biggest clue. It tells us "do not get DRUNK on wine". It does not say "do not DRINK it". I guess not many bothered to read the OP or anything else I wrote. I never quoted the bible as saying "Do not DRINK it." My OP was just asking about how one could use christianity to be anti alcohol when there's no commandment or ruleing to say it's forbidin to drink it. People used christianity to promote prohabition and I'm curious as to how that worked. Before anyone goes on putting more words in my mouth, acctually ready a post for once.

Alumbrado -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/4/2006 8:43:50 PM)
The OP says that people are using Christianity to promote prohibition, dry counties, and later you cite cases of Christians burning down stores and bars...all couched in the present tense. That is a fairly extreme assertion, and when asked for evidence that this is happening to any significant extent now, you've provided none, and switched to talking about prohibition in the past tense. Could you be a little more clear?

FangsNfeet -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/4/2006 9:22:25 PM)
We have christains amongst us that are anti alcohol based on there religion. They have pushed for prohabition in the past and won for atleast a short period. Even though the selling and drinking of alcohol is legal today, it's still being preached against as an evil brew. How much more clear can I be? I'm only asking how can people use christianity to promote that alcohol is evil when Jesus and his diciples partook in it themselves? There have also been other leaders of the bible who christians look up to who also drank. So forget about alcohol, let's talk about long hair. I remember watching a Petra performance on TV. My religious grandfather walks in and comments how it's not very christian like to have hair that long. However, I pointed to the big picture of Jesus on the wall bringing up the realization that Jesus had long hair. Also, let's not forget about the story of Sampson. So if Jesus had long hair, how can it be considered today as inapropriate by someone of the christian faith for a guy to have long hair? Forget about hair, let's talk about clothes. For some reason, it has considered wrong for a woman to wear blue jeans. It's based on biblical scripture saying that women should not dress like men. However, the scripture was being written back when it was the men who wore the skirts and blue jeans had not been invented. I'm making this as simple as it can get. How can one use christain faith to get there way when there's nothing in the bible to support there belief on how things have to be? Not only does the bible not only support the persons idea but also contradicts it.

SirKenin -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/4/2006 9:32:32 PM)
hahaha. Fangs... the more you talk, the deeper you dig yourself. You do not have the first CLUE what you are talking about. First, instead of asking us why the extremists believe the way they do, just to hear yourself talk, why do you not go ask them. They would be the ones to answer your question. We can not answer for them. Secondly, how do you know that Jesus had long hair? You do not. Nobody does. The picture you see of Jesus with long hair is a Turkish representation. It is drawn with predominantly Turkish features. Jews of the day looked nothing like that picture. And, on top of that, considering that Jesus had Jewish and Egyptian features, it is even less likely that he looked like that picture.

Alumbrado -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/4/2006 10:01:05 PM)
OK, thanks for the clarification FnF. I would suspect that there are several factors behind people citing the Bible as a reason for actions or beliefs that are inconsistent with its actual wording. Mark Twain among others, has expended more than a few words on the subject. Cliff Notes explanation? The need for power over others is something which many people are unwilling to admit to. Condemning others feeds that need. And appeals to authority, whether patriotic, jingoistic, or religious, are a form of leveraging power.

MasterKalif -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/4/2006 11:55:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet We have christains amongst us that are anti alcohol based on there religion. They have pushed for prohabition in the past and won for atleast a short period. Even though the selling and drinking of alcohol is legal today, it's still being preached against as an evil brew. How much more clear can I be? I'm only asking how can people use christianity to promote that alcohol is evil when Jesus and his diciples partook in it themselves? There have also been other leaders of the bible who christians look up to who also drank. So forget about alcohol, let's talk about long hair. I remember watching a Petra performance on TV. My religious grandfather walks in and comments how it's not very christian like to have hair that long. However, I pointed to the big picture of Jesus on the wall bringing up the realization that Jesus had long hair. Also, let's not forget about the story of Sampson. So if Jesus had long hair, how can it be considered today as inapropriate by someone of the christian faith for a guy to have long hair? Forget about hair, let's talk about clothes. For some reason, it has considered wrong for a woman to wear blue jeans. It's based on biblical scripture saying that women should not dress like men. However, the scripture was being written back when it was the men who wore the skirts and blue jeans had not been invented. I'm making this as simple as it can get. How can one use christain faith to get there way when there's nothing in the bible to support there belief on how things have to be? Not only does the bible not only support the persons idea but also contradicts it. I dunno....I think the "christians" you refer to, were Protestants, who have these puritanical streaks about things like that, and even there I cant say for sure. Sounds more like those "born again Christians" to me. In any case, I am a Christian, and the Lord knows Ive never shed nor refused to accept a good drink or two! lol the country I am from, which is 89% Catholic, everyone drinks wine....everyone. Therefore, I think its weak to argue that its religious-based. To answer your question, no one can say that Christianity or the bible prohibits drinking because it does not.

FangsNfeet -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/5/2006 5:52:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin hahaha. Fangs... the more you talk, the deeper you dig yourself. You do not have the first CLUE what you are talking about. First, instead of asking us why the extremists believe the way they do, just to hear yourself talk, why do you not go ask them. They would be the ones to answer your question. We can not answer for them. Secondly, how do you know that Jesus had long hair? You do not. Nobody does. The picture you see of Jesus with long hair is a Turkish representation. It is drawn with predominantly Turkish features. Jews of the day looked nothing like that picture. And, on top of that, considering that Jesus had Jewish and Egyptian features, it is even less likely that he looked like that picture. It really does not matter if Jesus really had long hair or not. The bottom line is that we have an image of Jesus that is accepted by just about everyone who belives in him as the son of God. The image of Jesus which is widly accepted by most portrays him with long hair and very few if any have a problem with it. If a concervitive right wing christain can accept Jesus with long hair, then how can he disown bands and hippies based on having long hair alone?

bandit25 -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/5/2006 6:23:59 AM)
I've read this entire post and I wasn't going to add, but this kind of thing just pisses me off to no end. First of all, you say "Christians". Presumably, you mean people that believe in Christ, correct? Well, we all know that there are so many different sects and so many different beliefs between those sects, that to lump Christians together and try and consolidate their beliefs into a cohesive unit is simply nonsensical. Even to say right wing is meaningless. I think that many people believe that the Bible is a somewhat accurate set of "rules" if you will of how Christians should act or believe. Nowhere does it state that alcohol is inherently evil. Things are not evil. And I was raised Baptist. I heard all about the evils of drink. Anyone that has any sense at all discounts that. In fact, I happen to believe that God gave us brains to think for ourselves. Actually, FnF, the image that we hold of Christ very often depends upon our own self image. I have seen an Asian Christ (and by that I mean a picture of Christ with what I call Asian features), a Black Christ, a Hispanic Christ so your statement makes absolutely no sense. And who the hell disowned hippies? What the hell are you talking about? I could go on and on...wars fought in the name of God. That's idiotic. Wars are fought for one reason alone...I want your stuff. That's it. End of reason. You can put whatever twist you want, it all boils down to that. I want it...I'm taking it. Just look at history, man. And no, I didn't take my hormone pill this morning either. I don't need one. Stopping now to have a cup of coffee and enjoy the day.

SaphireLynn -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/5/2006 6:43:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Not to get too pedantic because this is a offshoot of a post that was less than optimally couched in the first place......... (and this is fast reply......not pointed at Kenin or anyone else for that matter) but after the days of the flood Noah planted a vinyard (canucks and americans as well as the rest of the hemisphere and sphere as well) would seem to indicate that this consisted of grapes, from there these daughters of Noah had made a strong drink (lets try to find out if this was welches or oceanspray) but he got drunk and passed out. They each in turn went in and knew him. This is how the world was repopulated after the little imbriglio of the flood which was a method god used to wipe out original sin....saving the righteous from destruction, a theme that is recurrent, sodom and gemorrah and so on............"But Lord, what if ten righteous men are found within?" ............anyways the incest nor the drunkeness was looked upon in bad light. Ron you have your Bible stories mixed up that was Lot not Noah.... Noah took his wife, 2 sons and thier wifes with him.....and that is who populated the earth... Noah did not have any daughters

FangsNfeet -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/5/2006 6:59:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bandit25 Stopping now to have a cup of coffee and enjoy the day. Sounds like you've already had enough. My first statement in this post was that wine had been drank all through the bible. There are brands named after Saints and wine is still given at communion within the catholic church. However, in a Penticostal church along with other protistant factions, use regular grape juice instead of wine. Never once in this entire post did I say that christianity of today is against alochol. I've only mentioned that certain people have used christianity to disown alcohol saying that it's evil. I find it odd that they can get away with it when there's no basis in the bible that says that drinking is evil.

bandit25 -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/5/2006 7:36:27 AM)
Although I am sure that I am beating my head against a brick wall...why would you find that odd? People fight wars in the name of a loving God...don't you find that odd? Blue eyed, blond haired people followed a short, brown eyed, dark haired man...don't you find that odd? How about anteaters? Aren't they odd? The fact of the matter is that just about anyone can cite just about anything as justification for anything they want. Edited to add: Spellcheck is your friend.

darkinshadows -> RE: Booze and Christianity (8/5/2006 8:08:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bandit25 Although I am sure that I am beating my head against a brick wall...why would you find that odd? People fight wars in the name of a loving God...don't you find that odd? Blue eyed, blond haired people followed a short, brown eyed, dark haired man...don't you find that odd? How about anteaters? Aren't they odd? The fact of the matter is that just about anyone can cite just about anything as justification for anything they want. Edited to add: Spellcheck is your friend. Just agrees. Peace and Rapture

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