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UC Davis Flag - 4/18/2017 8:40:55 AM

CaptR

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I posted this on another forum here but it's probably more at home on this one.

quote:

If it's controversy you want how about the students at UC Davis voting to ban the requirement the US flag be displayed when the student Senate is in session. Jose Meneses, a recently naturalized citizen spearheaded the movement citing "Patriotism" means different things to different people. While I agree, I also feel the flag is representative of the rights of individuals to believe what they will. Why make optional the very symbol of choice/ freedom your adoptive country displays (Jose)? In the sixties the flag was burned/ desecrated in protest of a very unpopular war polarizing a segment of society to enact change but we were still America, still proud of our country. Now it seems colleges (UC Davis/ close to Berkeley no surprise) are bypassing even the symbols of a united America. The flag stands for the freedom and opportunity Mr Meneses sought out when he came to this country, why disrespect it and the many who have given their all in honor of the values our flag represents?
If Mr Meneses or any other coddled college person who needs a cause du jour (involving a symbol my family has fought for and paid a high price while doing so) I suggest they pick another country, another flag, another set of values and freedoms to support and display, or not. If you don't want to embrace what our flag embodies or display pro American sentiment don't come here, we don't need or want you. This isn't where you came from so assimilate without losing heritage but embracing our way of life or repatriate to your country of origin.
For those of you foreign to the US who view this as typical American arrogance, you're not wrong. I'm proud of my country but I've traveled extensively and respected my host countries people, religions, traditions making sure the typical "ugly American" impression was never left behind. If you have something positive to contribute here all the better for our nation. However, if you want to disrespect our country, symbols and ideals .... fuck you, stay home and fight for what you believe in there.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/18/2017 11:17:53 AM

subrob1967

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FR

Cut all federal funding to that institution... Fucking snowflakes

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/18/2017 11:26:08 AM

WhoreMods

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Cut all federal funding to that institution... Fucking snowflakes

So some thin skinned pussy whining that they have too to show flags is not a snowflake?
Welcome to trumpton, where the snowflakes hang out.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/18/2017 2:50:32 PM

CaptR

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This is about more than just showing a flag. It's about honoring/ respecting the country you've sought refuge in.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/18/2017 2:56:56 PM

mnottertail

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Fuck that. Corporations headquartered here dont do that.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/18/2017 3:01:59 PM

CaptR

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We aren't talking about business. We're talking about individuals who seek refuge here then deny respect for their host country. If you have a bone to pick with corporate America start another post.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/18/2017 3:38:34 PM

bounty44

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to a large extent, the college age left sees America as racist, oppressive and imperialistic, and the flag as a symbol for those things, as well as just so much jingoism.

but come to think of it though, so does the adult left.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 4/18/2017 3:43:20 PM >

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/18/2017 3:47:20 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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My sister, who was a missionary in Russia for five years, didn't know how much the American Flag meant to her; until she traveled to the American Embassy and waited outside in freezing temperatures for the gates to open. When the gates opened, and she saw the American Flag flying, she broke down and wept.

Symbology is powerful, and even when we aren't cognitively aware on a daily basis of the symbology and it's importance to us, it can illicit a powerfully visceral response. As a naturalized citizen, the flags symbology may represent a past he doesn't find patriotic or he hasn't viscerally connected to the flag being a patriotic symbol.

Any opposition to flying an American flag, would make me want to fly it all the higher, but I wouldn't feel as if I needed to challenge their right to their own idea of what the flag represents. Maybe. I'm not sure.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/18/2017 8:52:15 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: CaptR

We aren't talking about business. We're talking about individuals who seek refuge here then deny respect for their host country. If you have a bone to pick with corporate America start another post.

It would seem the persons history is more important to you than their message. If that is not the case then whdy id you bring that aspect of the question to this discussion?

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/18/2017 8:58:17 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

to a large extent, the college age left sees America as racist, oppressive and imperialistic, and the flag as a symbol for those things, as well as just so much jingoism.

but come to think of it though, so does the adult left.

For a self proclaimed college boy you do not seem to be aware of amerikan history.
Do you deny the genocide of the native amerikans?
Do you deny the institutional slavery of blacks in amerika?
Do you deny the deprivation of suffrage to women for the majority of amerika's existence?
Do you deny that amerika expanded it's boarders at the point of a gun?
Do you deny that every war amerika has been in we either started or insinuated ourselves into?
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/19/2017 3:59:43 AM

bounty44

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the irony there winsome, much like the colin kaepernick situation is, the very freedom one has to do such things is inextricably caught up in the symbol they reject.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/19/2017 4:07:29 AM

thompsonx

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the irony there winsome, much like the colin kaepernick situation is, the very freedom one has to do such things is inextricably caught up in the symbol they reject.

You fail to recognize the difference between rejecting a symbol and lamenting the distortion of the symbol.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/19/2017 4:40:10 AM

WhoreMods

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptR

This is about more than just showing a flag. It's about honoring/ respecting the country you've sought refuge in.

A scrap of fabric is barely even a symbol, never mind a country.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/19/2017 4:47:48 AM

CaptR

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If you reject the symbol aren't you in turn rejecting what it represents? Our flag embodies the freedoms immigrants flock to this country to gain. The history of AmeriCA comrade is violent granted. There is no "distortion" here, it's always been that way. Show me a country that doesn't have some history of war or repression. Yet given that as fact they still come, still seek asylum.
You state a laundry list of humanitarian crimes in our history. Does it shame you to be a citizen? Do you feel you owe a debt to those people? By all means enact change! Just remember that flag is the symbol of freedom giving you the right to act.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/19/2017 4:48:35 AM

bounty44

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Cut all federal funding to that institution... Fucking snowflakes

in this case though, the link between what the students are doing/advocating for, and university administrative practice, is tenuous one.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/19/2017 4:54:08 AM

CaptR

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Explain to me then why every country, every cause, tribe etc on this planet flies either a banner or flag? Because it's representative of something.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/19/2017 5:00:04 AM

WhoreMods

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptR

Explain to me then why every country, every cause, tribe etc on this planet flies either a banner or flag? Because it's representative of something.

It's a visual shorthand for people who can't be bothered to read a sign with words on.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/19/2017 5:52:32 AM

CaptR

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Ok, so the United States should decree instead of a flag flying, all institutions should have a sign reading in entirety Lazarus' poem. Oh and it should be mandatory any potential refugee, immigrant, etc be able to read and interpret it in English. I agree wholeheartedly, no shortcut seeking lazy mofos disrespect' n flags or banners allowed!

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/19/2017 6:10:08 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptR

We aren't talking about business. We're talking about individuals who seek refuge here then deny respect for their host country. If you have a bone to pick with corporate America start another post.

First, I will do what the fuck I want. Second, this Philippino is seeking refuge? Denying respect? Uh, the institution flys a flag. The issue here is do they fly a separate flag when the student senate is in session? Why? To provide proudness and duty honor and country hard ons while they argue the price of milk in the cafeteria?

Whatever.

Nutsuckers are all jingoism, slogans and shallowness. You might concentrate on the fact that we are 20+ trillion in debt and galloping higher and jingo and slogan and shallow that.

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RE: UC Davis Flag - 4/19/2017 6:23:40 AM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: CaptR

If you reject the symbol aren't you in turn rejecting what it represents?

Perhaps if you got an adult to explain what I posted you would not try to construct such a simple minded straw man.

Our flag embodies the freedoms immigrants
flock to this country to gain.

Our flag is the symbol of our country and nothing more. Immigrants go where they go for many reasons. Those reasons are not
always for the most ethical purposes.

The history of AmeriCA comrade is violent granted.

Violence is but one aspect of amerikan culture.

There is no "distortion" here, it's always been that way.

Perhaps if you were to read the declaration of independence and compare and contrast that with the reality of amerikan history
you might more easily notice the distortion.
Saying that the sun has always risen in the east does not affect the reality of skin cancer... platitudes do not an argument make.

Show me a country that doesn't have some history of war or repression.

How about we compare amerika to amerika instead of trying to create some false equivalency?

Yet given that as fact they still come,
still seek asylum.

Who comes? Who is seeking asylum from what? Are we speaking about poorly educated people who
can make more money pushing a broom here than they can in their native country? Are we speaking of
rich people who have been chased out of their native country by those they have historically oppressed?

You state a laundry list of humanitarian crimes in our history.

I cite our history.

Does it shame you to be a citizen?

Would it shame you if your mother was a crack whore? Would it shame you if your father was a treasonous spy?
Would it shame you if your brother was a child molester?
If the above were true would you deny it and claim it were otherwise?

Do you feel you owe a debt to those people?

Would you feel you owed a debt to improve your family name?

By all means enact change! Just remember that flag is the symbol of freedom giving you the right to act.

Just remember that your family name is the symbol of what you stand for when you say your name. You can be the son of
adolph hitler or the great great great grandson of benedict arnold you have the freedom to ameliorate the deeds associated with
those names by your daily actions but you cannot change your family history by ignoring or denying it.

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