RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues

RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (12/30/2016 7:54:55 AM)
Whatever its roots, W's years found a GOP far more interested in trying to create a permanent majority, invading the ME, and pretending it could be done with tax cuts, creating a structural deficit they refused to address. Since the legislature was ignoring fiscal policy, the Fed was forced to rein in problems with monetary policy, principally interest rates. But when interest rates are finally near zero, we got to experience what had previously been a theoretical problem, a liquidity trap, and when all the other factors exploded, banks and companies simply sat on cash, since it was so cheap to hang on to it (with very little opportunity cost). And that has hampered the economy and the Fed since.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (12/30/2016 2:03:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Whatever its roots, W's years found a GOP far more interested in trying to create a permanent majority, invading the ME, and pretending it could be done with tax cuts, creating a structural deficit they refused to address. Since the legislature was ignoring fiscal policy, the Fed was forced to rein in problems with monetary policy, principally interest rates. But when interest rates are finally near zero, we got to experience what had previously been a theoretical problem, a liquidity trap, and when all the other factors exploded, banks and companies simply sat on cash, since it was so cheap to hang on to it (with very little opportunity cost). And that has hampered the economy and the Fed since. Whatever it's roots? LMAO!!! The Fed was "forced to rein in problems" with monetary policy? Bullshit. What did we do before 1913? The Fed has fed (pun intended) the protracted crappy recovery with "monetary policy." The Fed has kept rates artificially low, spurring growth. What it's done is sacrificed future spending with current spending by making the reward of saving almost worthless. If you're not going to see appreciable interest on your savings (the way it's been for quite some time), but prices are still going to rise (as they have continued to do), why would you save for another day when your dollar's purchasing power is reduced? The Federal Reserve thinks it knows what rates "should" be to further it's goals (stated or not). Let the Market set the rates, as the Market only has one goal: equilibrium. You do realize, don't you that the initial passage of tax cuts occurred well before the war started, right? I mean, June of 2001 does come before September of 2001, so we didn't even have a reason for the warmongering yet. The tax cuts were supposed to stimulate spending as part of the recovery from the dotcom bubble burst that happened before W was President.

Musicmystery -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (12/31/2016 1:49:16 PM)
Well, I wasn't dumb enough to put my savings in low interest accounts. It's what stocks, real estate, and business investment are for. Second, you didn't refute anything (beyond "nuh-uh"), simply added that tax cuts were a go before the war -- do you remember Greenspan warning they were reckless and irresponsible? The Fed just sets the interbank rates. We all pay more than that. If there were a strong demand for dollars, interest rates would indeed rise, because there is indeed a money market.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (12/31/2016 2:46:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Well, I wasn't dumb enough to put my savings in low interest accounts. It's what stocks, real estate, and business investment are for. Second, you didn't refute anything (beyond "nuh-uh"), simply added that tax cuts were a go before the war -- do you remember Greenspan warning they were reckless and irresponsible? The Fed just sets the interbank rates. We all pay more than that. If there were a strong demand for dollars, interest rates would indeed rise, because there is indeed a money market. 1. Okay. Good for you. Now that we have an idea that you're financially stable, we can... um... continue on doing what we were doing before we knew. 2. Greenspan was reckless and irresponsible, imo. Good thing he got out right before his shit hit the fan, no? W & Co. fucked up in expanding into Iraq while we were still in Afghanistan, imo. I think it made the war cost significantly higher than if he had waited until we were done in Afghanistan before going into Iraq. The deficits that ran under Bush weren't all that bad (as far as deficits go) until the crash in '08 fucked up '09 revenues. In fact, revenues were growing quite nicely, in spite of the tax cuts. The problem was the greater acceleration of spending in the Bush years. The 2001 tax cut packaged passed the House (230-197) and Senate (58-33) with a GOP House (221-212-2) and a 50-50 split Senate, so, it wasn't just the GOP that thought passing the first tax cuts wasn't a horrible idea. The 2003 tax cut package passed the House (231-200) and Senate (50-50; VP broke the tie) with a GOP House (229-205-1) and GOP Senate (51-48-1), so, once again, there a handful were non-Republicans that still voted in favor of further tax cuts. The Democrats could have stopped either one, if they so chose. 3. The interbank rate is, indirectly, the basis for percentage rates, so while The Fed does, indeed, just set the interbank rate, what it does with those rates does, indeed, effect other interest rates. 4. I forgot to mention that at the end of the bubble, the Democrats were in charge of the legislature, and, at no time prior, did the Republicans have an insurmountable majority in Congress for W. All they did, apparently, was whine and bleat about how horrible Bush was, while not really doing a anything about it.

Musicmystery -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (1/1/2017 12:23:02 PM)
Democrats during the Bush years were spineless. Then they decided to be just like Republicans. So that's a wash. Minimums influence but don't preclude markets. Minimum wage, for example, matters only if the market wage is already below that point. The Feds rates certainly have an influence, but credit cards are still charging outrageous rates because there's a market will people will pay it. My car loan is 1.9%. If it were higher, I'd have just paid cash in this economy. But that's still above Fed rates. The market is still at work. It's why it's called the money market. The Bush Wars just exacerbated a structural deficit. They swallowed the "magic money" Reaganomics kool-aid, even though Reagan's own people admitted in the end it didn't work. Then they added "magic war on the cheap" arrogance from Rumsfeld, and the debt began exploding again, instead of simply steadily increasing. And in 2007/2008, the reality of the fiscal foolishness hit the stock market.

BoscoX -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (1/1/2017 9:01:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Democrats during the Bush years were spineless. Then they decided to be just like Republicans. So that's a wash. Minimums influence but don't preclude markets. Minimum wage, for example, matters only if the market wage is already below that point. The Feds rates certainly have an influence, but credit cards are still charging outrageous rates because there's a market will people will pay it. My car loan is 1.9%. If it were higher, I'd have just paid cash in this economy. But that's still above Fed rates. The market is still at work. It's why it's called the money market. The Bush Wars just exacerbated a structural deficit. They swallowed the "magic money" Reaganomics kool-aid, even though Reagan's own people admitted in the end it didn't work. Then they added "magic war on the cheap" arrogance from Rumsfeld, and the debt began exploding again, instead of simply steadily increasing. And in 2007/2008, the reality of the fiscal foolishness hit the stock market. Democrats under Bush were hysterical morons, just like you are now under Trump Nazis and KKK everywhere, blah blah blah. The sky is falling the sky is falling wolf wolf wolf. Same game plan, different president

WhoreMods -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (1/2/2017 4:37:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX Democrats under Bush were hysterical morons, just like you are now under Trump Nazis and KKK everywhere, blah blah blah. The sky is falling the sky is falling wolf wolf wolf. Same game plan, different president What, you mean like the eight years the Republicans have just spent whining screeching and hooting that a president from the other party was a moslem terrorist who isn't even an American citizen?

mnottertail -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (1/2/2017 4:38:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri 1) The Fed was "forced to rein in problems" with monetary policy? Bullshit. What did we do before 1913? The Fed has fed (pun intended) the protracted crappy recovery with "monetary policy." 2) The Federal Reserve thinks it knows what rates "should" be to further it's goals (stated or not). Let the Market set the rates, as the Market only has one goal: equilibrium. 1) pure asswipe, prior to 1913 we went from depression to depression. After we went from depression to depression. 2) the 'market' (which is pure hallucination, and pure asswipe) has no goal of equilibrium, it has one and only one goal, monopoly.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (1/2/2017 7:29:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Democrats during the Bush years were spineless. Then they decided to be just like Republicans. So that's a wash. But these Democrats won't be, right? [8\|] quote: Minimums influence but don't preclude markets. Minimum wage, for example, matters only if the market wage is already below that point. The Feds rates certainly have an influence, but credit cards are still charging outrageous rates because there's a market will people will pay it. My car loan is 1.9%. If it were higher, I'd have just paid cash in this economy. But that's still above Fed rates. The market is still at work. It's why it's called the money market. Sure, the Market is playing a role, but rates being set by policy is going to skew the Market. Your car loan is 1.9%. What was the Fed Fund rate when you got the loan? Would it have been 1.9% if the Fed Fund rate was 1%? 2%? Most likely, your loan rate would have been higher (and you'd have simply paid cash). Cheap credit puts an incentive on spending now. It speeds up the purchasing timetable. Cars for Clunkers got people to purchase cars when they wouldn't have otherwise bought cars. What ended up happening was once the program ended, there was a lull in car purchasing until the purchasing timetable caught back up. quote: The Bush Wars just exacerbated a structural deficit. They swallowed the "magic money" Reaganomics kool-aid, even though Reagan's own people admitted in the end it didn't work. Then they added "magic war on the cheap" arrogance from Rumsfeld, and the debt began exploding again, instead of simply steadily increasing. And in 2007/2008, the reality of the fiscal foolishness hit the stock market. Federal tax revenues increased throughout the Bush years. Had spending not grown faster, there wouldn't have been any "structural deficit."

BoscoX -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (1/2/2017 7:38:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX Democrats under Bush were hysterical morons, just like you are now under Trump Nazis and KKK everywhere, blah blah blah. The sky is falling the sky is falling wolf wolf wolf. Same game plan, different president What, you mean like the eight years the Republicans have just spent whining screeching and hooting that a president from the other party was a moslem terrorist who isn't even an American citizen? I don't suppose you can see the differences because you are such an idiot. If Republicans had done a fraction of the things the alt left is doing now... Damn. You are already insane, what is beyond that. I have seen alt left droolers here post that Trump is gay, a faggot basically. "He is a Kremlin agent,..." The Hitler spew is nonstop. Riots, blocking freeways, assaulting people for wearing Trump hat etc You are too stupid for words little Kool-Aid jug

Musicmystery -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (1/2/2017 8:21:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Democrats during the Bush years were spineless. Then they decided to be just like Republicans. So that's a wash. But these Democrats won't be, right? [8\|] Look, stop making up my positions for me. There are enough morons here that can't do any better. These Democrats have Republican-envy. That's why they ran a Hilary/Goldman-Sachs campaign. There's no discussion if I have to start every post with "no, that's not what I said." Come on. You're better than this, when you want to be. There are enough children here. --- As for markets, you haven't disputed my point at all, merely illustrated it. Sure, the Fed can influence the money market. But there's still a money market -- or there would be no activity at any rate.

WhoreMods -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (1/2/2017 9:00:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX If Republicans had done a fraction of the things the alt left is doing now... Give that the alt left you keep frothing doesn't seem to exist, that'd be quite difficult, wouldn't it?

BoscoX -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (1/2/2017 11:32:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX If Republicans had done a fraction of the things the alt left is doing now... Give that the alt left you keep frothing doesn't seem to exist, that'd be quite difficult, wouldn't it? Doesn't exist? You are a poster moron

WhoreMods -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (1/3/2017 4:34:17 AM)
If you can't demonstrate what it is, then there's no proof that you didn't make it up.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (1/5/2017 5:36:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery --- As for markets, you haven't disputed my point at all, merely illustrated it. Sure, the Fed can influence the money market. But there's still a money market -- or there would be no activity at any rate. I never disputed that there were money markets. However, The Fed is skewing the market. That's the point. Letting The Market set the rates naturally, requires taking The Fed out of the business of setting any part of it.

Musicmystery -> RE: Trump repeating actions he previously criticized Clinton for on range of issues (1/6/2017 7:13:56 AM)
Is Trump doing things he criticized Clinton for? - CNN Video - CNN.com http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/12/28/donald-trump-same-as-hillary-clinton-schneider-pkg-erin.cnn

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