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Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:13:37 AM   
Greta75


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Status: offline 		http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-36775398

It's about time!

Harassment of women is to be recorded as a hate crime in a bid to tackle sexist abuse.

Nottinghamshire Police said it would expand its categories to include misogynistic incidents.

It means abuse or harassment which might not be a crime can be reported to and investigated by the police, and support for the victim put in place.

Nottingham Women's Centre said it hopes it will help give more victims the courage to report incidents.

Chief Constable Sue Fish claimed it will make the county a safer place for women.

"What women face, often on a daily basis, is absolutely unacceptable and can be extremely distressing," she said.

"Nottinghamshire Police is committed to taking misogynistic hate crime seriously and encourages anyone who is affected by it to contact us without hesitation."

Work on the idea first started with the Nottinghamshire Safer for Women Conference last year, co-hosted by the police with the Nottingham Women's Centre.

BBC TV reporter Sarah Teale was harassed in the street while reporting on the conference.

The force defines misogyny hate crime as: "Incidents against women that are motivated by an attitude of a man towards a woman and includes behaviour targeted towards a woman by men simply because they are a woman."

The classification now means people can report incidents which might not be considered to be a crime and the police will investigate.

Nottingham Women's Centre has been helping train call centre, force control staff and officers on the beat to recognise misogynistic hate crime and ways to tackle it.

These officers will also examine if and how a victim can be supported or if anything can be done to help prevent them being targeted again.

Domestic abuse will not be recorded as a misogyny hate crime because it has its own procedure, the force said.

Melanie Jeffs, centre manager at Nottingham Women's Centre, said: "We're pleased to see Nottinghamshire Police recognise the breadth of violence and intimidation that women experience on a daily basis in our communities."

She added: "Recording this as a hate crime will give us a detailed picture of how often, when and where it is happening. It has been very difficult to build that picture before but we will now get detailed data to analyse.

"Showing that the police take it seriously will also give people the confidence to come forward and report offences."
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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:24:47 AM   
bounty44


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Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		while I am certainly not for harassment, I see this as just one step closer to "thought police."



< Message edited by bounty44 -- 7/13/2016 3:29:16 AM >

(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:26:28 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: bounty44

while I am certainly not for harassment, I see this as just one step closer to "thought police."


What would be your solution?

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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:29:24 AM   
Termyn8or


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Yes, this looks like an attempt to create a "thought crime".

But if it passes muster I guess that would decrease the number of Muslims coming into the country. They think Women and girls are just a piece of meat.

T^T

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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:31:09 AM   
Greta75


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You know that girl who walked in New York and get harassed. With this law, most of those guys who harrassed her can now be arrested for a hate crime!

Awesome!

I think for example, like those wolf whistling is something NOBODY does to men! Needs to stop!

Even gay men don't wolf whistle at each other.

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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:32:59 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Yes, this looks like an attempt to create a "thought crime".

But if it passes muster I guess that would decrease the number of Muslims coming into the country. They think Women and girls are just a piece of meat.

Jesus termie that is just about the most stupid thing you have ever said. How many men right here on this board think that women and girls are just a piece of meat?

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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:36:16 AM   
crazyml


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Status: offline 		Hmm... well, to be honest... if they're just "thinking" about raping and mutilating twitter posters that they disagree with, I'm pretty sure they won't be caught out by this.

If they send someone a message saying "I'm going to rape and mutilate you" that's not a "thought crime"... that's a "hate crime"

Can you see the distinction?

_____________________________

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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:37:42 AM   
bounty44


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Status: offline 		greta, you are obliged then to explain HOW it is within the proper purview of government to get involved in interactions that some people are offended by.

or put another way, show where in the fundamental documents of England's social/political system that such involvement is justified.


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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:41:59 AM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Yes, this looks like an attempt to create a "thought crime".

But if it passes muster I guess that would decrease the number of Muslims coming into the country. They think Women and girls are just a piece of meat.

Jesus termie that is just about the most stupid thing you have ever said. How many men right here on this board think that women and girls are just a piece of meat?



Now many are Muslim ?

Idiot, it is in their laws and their religion, and Muslim means the Islamic religion which they still keep. Sell the daughters. Jews did it.

i am going to give you a piece of advice fleagle, calling me stupid makes you look stupid.

T^T

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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:43:47 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Hmm... well, to be honest... if they're just "thinking" about raping and mutilating twitter posters that they disagree with, I'm pretty sure they won't be caught out by this.

If they send someone a message saying "I'm going to rape and mutilate you" that's not a "thought crime"... that's a "hate crime"

Can you see the distinction?


"hate crimes" are the offspring of "thought crimes."

you cannot get to the former without inventing, and thereby involving the latter.

harassment is wrong and the government has a justifiable role in protecting its citizens. whether that protection extends to "harassment" is debatable. what the government does not have the right, or even ability to do, is to label harassment as misogyny.

the next progressive left totalitarian step goes from making the action illegal, to making the supposed thought behind it illegal.

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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:48:22 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
greta, you are obliged then to explain HOW it is within the proper purview of government to get involved in interactions that some people are offended by.


You are asking the wrong person who is from a country where our law criminalizes people from verbally hurting the feelings of another race, or religious person in our country.

That law frustrates me, but what is fair is how equally it's applied. So if a Muslim hurt my feelings as a Buddhist. His screwed too. If I hurt his feelings as a Muslim, I am screwed. So fair enough. We are all on equal grounds and try not to say mean things to each other.

It's not like the west where it's okay to hurt christian feelings, but not okay to hurt Muslim feelings. As in, there is usually stronger backlash and defense for Muslims, compared to Christians, where nobody cares if Christianity is disparaged or Christians are insulted.

So the only thing I would add on to this law is to make it fair also. Like women should not harrass men as well. Genders should not harrass each other, or it would be a hate crime.

Thought crime is criminalised in my country too. If someone post on twitter, I am gonna kill all muslims or gay people or something. That person is thrown in jail. You can't even think about killing people. It's illegal!






< Message edited by Greta75 -- 7/13/2016 3:49:41 AM >

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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:52:20 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Status: offline 		A very misleading title!!

It is only in ONE particular police force where this has been taken up: Nottinghamshire; not the whole country.
Not only that, it is not a crime as such until any action has been taken to prosecute somebody.
And what you have to realize is that it is something extra that can be reported and recorded, but that doesn't necessarilly presume that any action will be taken by anyone.

It's akin to adding the noise of a drone to a noise pollution complaint proceedure in one area.
In and of itself, it's pretty meaningless other than to collect statistics on how often it is happening or if one particular individual is causing a persistent nuisance.



As usual, Greta over-exaggerates things like -
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Thought crime is criminalised in my country too. If someone post on twitter, I am gonna kill all muslims or gay people or something. That person is thrown in jail. You can't even think about killing people. It's illegal!

There is a HUGE difference between thinking about something and posting on social media.
One is a thought, the other is an action; something you seem to have difficulty in understanding.
Your statement that thought crime is criminalised in your country is utter tosh and nonsense.

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 7/13/2016 3:56:21 AM >

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:53:26 AM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"I think for example, like those wolf whistling is something NOBODY does to men! Needs to stop! "

Women used to take that as a compliment. And that is how it was intended.

And it didn't happen the other way around because it has always been predators and prey. There are rules though, you can't just go and grab her by the hair, you have to convince her to want you, over the other males that might want her. Make her CHOOSE you.

Strangely, I think this girl at work is after me. I am not good looking, I am fat and not in good health. Some reason she is paying attention to me. She is a bit chubby but not too much, and has good looks. Other day she walks up and says "Hey goo lookin" and I said "your eyesight ain't too good huh". I was not sure she was talking to me. Now yesterday her brother happened by the shop and she wanted me to meet him. Why ?

Seems like a nice girl but I am through with that. Them days are over, period. i am not hooking up with anyone ever again.

I hope it doesn't turn to hate. It can, I have seen it happen.

T^T

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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:56:09 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		[ED to fix quoting]

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Hmm... well, to be honest... if they're just "thinking" about raping and mutilating twitter posters that they disagree with, I'm pretty sure they won't be caught out by this.

If they send someone a message saying "I'm going to rape and mutilate you" that's not a "thought crime"... that's a "hate crime"

Can you see the distinction?


"hate crimes" are the offspring of "thought crimes."

you cannot get to the former without inventing, and thereby involving the latter.


I'm concerned that there's a flaw in your argument. You wouldn't argue that murder is a thought crime would you? Only, you cannot get to the actual murder without someone thinking about it first.

quote:



harassment is wrong and the government has a justifiable role in protecting its citizens. whether that protection extends to "harassment" is debatable. what the government does not have the right, or even ability to do, is to label harassment as misogyny.


Harassment causes distress and alarm. The government has, as you say, a justifiable role in protecting its citizens. So... that protection must extend to harassment.

If the harassment is misogynistic in nature, I'm just not sure what else you'd call it.

If you meant to say that the government doesn't have the right to label misogyny as harassment, then I'd agree with you, and there's nothing here that makes that claim.

quote:


the next progressive left totalitarian step goes from making the action illegal, to making the supposed thought behind it illegal.


Um Kay. If that's how you feel.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:56:14 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Not only that, it is not a crime as such until any action has been taken to prosecute somebody.

The idea is, in the past, if a woman reports harassment, the police is not under any obligation to investigate as it's not a crime. Now they have to and find out if they have sufficient evidence to prosecute. If it fits their definition, the situation reported and there is evidence. They can prosecute.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 3:58:55 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Not only that, it is not a crime as such until any action has been taken to prosecute somebody.

The idea is, in the past, if a woman reports harassment, the police is not under any obligation to investigate as it's not a crime. Now they have to and find out if they have sufficient evidence to prosecute. If it fits their definition, the situation reported and there is evidence. They can prosecute.


You are wrong Greta.
Harrassment has always been investigatable and prosecutable here.
Just the nature of the harrassment and the effort of the investigation has been shifted slightly.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 4:02:05 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Women used to take that as a compliment. And that is how it was intended.

Since when? Since a young teenager, it has always freak me out! Not done by local men though, as they would never distress a woman by wolf whistling around here, they know it's disrespectful. It's always done by foreign men who were not brought up to understand wolf whistling makes women uncomfortable!

quote:

Strangely, I think this girl at work is after me. I am not good looking, I am fat and not in good health. Some reason she is paying attention to me. She is a bit chubby but not too much, and has good looks. Other day she walks up and says "Hey goo lookin" and I said "your eyesight ain't too good huh". I was not sure she was talking to me. Now yesterday her brother happened by the shop and she wanted me to meet him. Why ?

Seems like a nice girl but I am through with that. Them days are over, period. i am not hooking up with anyone ever again.

What?? a pretty girl show interest in you and you think she's pretty and you do nothing about it? Why? Just enjoy and get to know her! I introduce my brother to any guy I like or have a crush on because my brother is my best friend and I want his opinion. Plus, ya know if I like a guy, I can get my brother to befriend the guy, and then ask him out to go out with like my brother's friends and I can tag along and get to know the crush better! See! Brothers are useful, very useful, especially to hang out with men I like.

Many innocent reasons :)


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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 4:04:37 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
You are wrong Greta.
Harrassment has always been investigatable and prosecutable here.
Just the nature of the harrassment and the effort of the investigation has been shifted slightly.

But in the past it would have to be physical harassment. Now it's just verbal harassment.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 4:18:46 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		having the police getting involved in curbing harassment is one argument.

labeling harassment "misogyny" because the aggrieved party happens to be female is another separate one. it moves from the realm of actions to thought.

and in so much as harassment can be verbal, here's a good quote:

quote:


"Of course, attacks on speech are always really attacks on thought, as the Framers understood very well. If you’re free to believe what you want, but you’re not free to say what you believe, then you’re not really free to believe what you want."


https://chroniclevitae.com/news/720-foia-harassment-because-there-s-no-crime-like-thought-crime

im saying that labeling criminal harassment as misogyny is the first step in making misogynist thoughts a crime.

to an extent we've got a similar thing going on here with the leftists, and with the democrats in congress who want to criminalize and punish "climate change deniers."

and no, I don't want the govt getting involved in cases of harassment until other avenues of redress have been exhausted.

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RE: Misogyny is classified as a hate crime in England - 7/13/2016 4:24:22 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
with the democrats in congress who want to criminalize and punish "climate change deniers."


That is extreme, since denying climate change does not emotionally harm a person. Also since most government of the world believe in climate change, climate change deniers does not stop climate change believers from doing their good work to prevent climate change.

But they say sometimes emotional abuse is worst than physical abuse as the scars last longer.

Misogyny is a form of emotional abuse.

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