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RE: Is more better? Even if its not you? - 7/21/2006 10:56:18 PM

SusanofO

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Yes, I got that impression.

- Susan

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RE: Is more better? Even if its not you? - 7/22/2006 1:09:52 AM

feastie

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*fast reply*

I think it's just fine to be exactly who and what you want to be. If you just want to bottom, great! If you want to be a slave, that's great too. But, I do understand what you mean. Some people make remarks in such ways, whether intentional or not, that give the impression that if you're not doing it the way they do, you're not as good or "real" as they are. Of course, they aren't better than you, just different. Never be afraid to be yourself.

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RE: Is more better? Even if its not you? - 7/22/2006 1:29:16 AM

ElectraGlide

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Alot of us like myself are here on CM to figure out what we are and where we want to go. The more we learn here the clearer it becomes. I was in a S and M relationship years ago that was not the traditional Dom and Sub relationship. I think that is what I seek again. I had no BDSM education back then we just did it. Now I am getting volumes of info from CM. I am glad that this lifestyle is so wide and varied. I know there seems to be a main text book 101 way that things should be. I have the determination and discipline to be a full time Dom but after being in 3 long term relationships for 20 years and being single again but I am quite content with casual S and M dating. I know it sounds selfish but being un-atached single never seems to last long so I will savor the moments lol.

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RE: Is more better? Even if its not you? - 7/22/2006 8:43:39 AM

hizgeorgiapeach

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Whoooooooo boy.

I have a feeling, Sharainks, that you're refering to the statement I made in the Safe Words thread about peer pressure related to both subspace and relationship dynamics. (Yeah, I know, it could simply be ego on my part to think that, but I am the one who brought it up in the post that she mentioned spawning this.)

What it boils down to is perceptions based on personal observation. I've been involved in BDSM for my entire adult life, and how I identify myself within that community has changed over time due to personal growth, changes in expectations and desires, and finally putting my foot down and rejecting the subtle pressure to conform within the subset of society. I've noticed, in the months since I finally started saying "I don't want power exchange at all - I just want casual play of equals" there has been a subtle trend towards people acting significantly differently. That Difference has shown up both online and in the people who show up for the first time to a Meet&Greet of the group that I hang out with at the local dungeon. While I expected some changes in how people acted (like a change in how those who identify as dominant approach me) it has gone Much deeper than I ever expected, and some of those changes have been rather disturbing.

At the last of the local M&G's, there were several new faces. It's not uncommon for the new folks to ask "So - what's your particular kink? Are you a sub or a dom?" when getting to know others at such functions, and I'm used to that. What bothers me is the looks that my answer seems to be garnering. When I tell them that I'm neither - I'm involved strictly for the kink and don't do power exchange - 2 things immediately happen. I get a shocked look like something is seriously WRONG with me or I've somehow had green spots pop out all over my face - and then I hear, "Well why not? It's what this is all supposed to be about." All I can do is laugh, and figure that they're VERY new - and probably only learned about BDSM and Kink from stumbling into a chatroom online. And then, of course, explain to them that power exchange is as much a kink as age play or foot worship or a leather fetish, and hope that they take it to heart.

Online, I see that subtle pressure through a variety of means being employed - some of them completely subconscious. In the chatrooms, it was overt and abundant and not at all subtle. The first question was inevitably "are you D, or s?" Anyone identifying as a switch was then hooted at for being wishywashy and indecisive - and anyone identifying as being in things for strictly physical kink was hooted at for being a player, a bedroom submissive/dom, or simply "not real." On forums such as this one, it's MUCH more Subtle - and considerably less frequent. It is not, however, non-existant. It shows up in the fact that sites like this one - geared towards Kink - place the First emphasis (and usually the Only emphasis) on power dynamics. It shows up in the fact that when someone (like myself) comments that more options should be available than Just power dynamic descriptives, it gets hooted at as somehow being Unnecessary or to Troublesome.

I'm gonna pick on Erin for a second here, because she's more than capable of defending herself, I agree with a great many of her views, and it was her comment specifically that drove home to me that for all we say about accepting other peoples' variants around this forum there is still some subconscious pressure to adhere to the "norm" by embracing certain things. Forgive me in advance, Erin - this is NOT intended as an attack, simply as an example of why it was brought forcibly to my mind to bring up in the other thread! (I doubt that Erin intended for the comment to come across the way that it did, and still does.)

The comment from Erin was that she felt Sad for me, that she felt I Shortchanged myself, and that she hoped I would eventually find someone to Trust Completely so I could "just let go and enjoy." The implication being that somehow - if I don't want the same things that most want as far as subspace, commitment, relationship dynamic, etc - that I'm somehow missing out, or that it's just not possible for me to be AS fulfilled as the rest of the BDSM world. This is, in my opinion, a bad message to impart even on a subconscious level to those who are new to Kink. It is a Particularly bad message to unintentionally impart when combined with the emphasis on a specific type of kink, such as is found on kink meeting sites.

I said it in the other thread, and it still is true - so I'm saying it here as well. I have always been of the opinion that part of the glory of BDSM is the celebration of Individuality and breaking away from being pressured into conformity with some external "norm."

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RE: Is more better? Even if its not you? - 7/22/2006 12:41:17 PM

mistoferin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach
I'm gonna pick on Erin for a second here, because she's more than capable of defending herself, I agree with a great many of her views, and it was her comment specifically that drove home to me that for all we say about accepting other peoples' variants around this forum there is still some subconscious pressure to adhere to the "norm" by embracing certain things. Forgive me in advance, Erin - this is NOT intended as an attack, simply as an example of why it was brought forcibly to my mind to bring up in the other thread! (I doubt that Erin intended for the comment to come across the way that it did, and still does.)

The comment from Erin was that she felt Sad for me, that she felt I Shortchanged myself, and that she hoped I would eventually find someone to Trust Completely so I could "just let go and enjoy." The implication being that somehow - if I don't want the same things that most want as far as subspace, commitment, relationship dynamic, etc - that I'm somehow missing out, or that it's just not possible for me to be AS fulfilled as the rest of the BDSM world. This is, in my opinion, a bad message to impart even on a subconscious level to those who are new to Kink. It is a Particularly bad message to unintentionally impart when combined with the emphasis on a specific type of kink, such as is found on kink meeting sites.

Yup, you're right I am fully capable....and I don't mind

.
I did not view your words as an attack and I'm sorry that you took mine in the manner that you did.

Let me clarify. Instead of going back through those threads and pulling each individual quote of yours that brought me to mine, I am just going to address it as a whole. Throughout both of those threads you gave alot of personal reasons why you don't do the whole power exchange thing and why you don't trust. All of those reasons had to do with bad experiences, being hurt and having your trust ripped to shreds. All of them, by the way, were also completely valid and understandable reasons. If you choose to never get back up on that horse...that's okay. There are alot of horses that I won't ever ride again either. We all have them.

When I commented that I was saddened, it wasn't really in response to any one particular thing. It was in response to taking the entire picture into account. I was and am still saddened that you had the experiences that you did and that those experiences have caused you to have to put up guards or view things from a more wary perspective. I do still hope and wish for you that one day you will meet someone who you feel that you can trust completely....whether or not you choose to follow a D/s, M/s, Top/bottom or even vanilla path is irrelevant. I feel saddened for you...not in a condescending way...but in a human way...one human being who knows what it is like to be hurt to another. Saddened in a way that makes me wish there were no assholes in the world...or at the very least make them aware of the impact of their "assholeness" on others. I'm saddened that YOU are the one who has had to change the way you do things, the way you view things...because of the thoughtlessness or recklessness of another. And I'm saddened that future partners of yours will never have the pleasure of experiencing the entirety of your trust...the way it used to be.

As I said...the comment came from the big picture. I'm sorry if it offended. I think you may have seen my expression of sadness as pity?...or possibly just as condescending? and both of those are far from my intended sentiment.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 7/22/2006 12:45:34 PM >

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RE: Is more better? Even if its not you? - 7/22/2006 1:35:34 PM

sharainks

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Actually georgia peach it was the response your post got from someone else on that thread that prompted this. It wasn't a response from a sub. There seems to be at times an almost knee jerk response from some dominants when it involves subs who want to maintain some bit of control, no matter how slight it may be.

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RE: Is more better? Even if its not you? - 7/22/2006 3:37:59 PM

Padriag

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

The thread on safewords prompted this post. So many times on here or other online bdsm pages I see ideas that seem to suggest that anything other than full blown TPE M/s relationships are somehow "less" and those who are not interested in such relationships are somehow missing something, lacking something, at any rate are "less" than those in those relationships.

The flip side we do get posters who uphold everyone's right to make those choices for themselves. I've always seen this as kind of a banquet of choices. You can choose chicken or beef or fish and none is less than the other simply what that person prefers at that time.

It seems more important to me to be true to who you are than to accept some notion that somehow some choices are not as valid as others.

opinions and flames welcome

I don't pay it much attention. People have different needs and different goals for themselves in life. Its better to focus on understanding your own needs and goals and find someone who has similar goals to get a quality relationship.

Or as the old saying goes.... its always better to have quality over quantity.

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RE: Is more better? Even if its not you? - 7/22/2006 4:47:34 PM

hizgeorgiapeach

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Yup, you're right I am fully capable....and I don't mind.
I did not view your words as an attack and I'm sorry that you took mine in the manner that you did.

Let me clarify. Instead of going back through those threads and pulling each individual quote of yours that brought me to mine, I am just going to address it as a whole. Throughout both of those threads you gave alot of personal reasons why you don't do the whole power exchange thing and why you don't trust. All of those reasons had to do with bad experiences, being hurt and having your trust ripped to shreds. All of them, by the way, were also completely valid and understandable reasons. If you choose to never get back up on that horse...that's okay. There are alot of horses that I won't ever ride again either. We all have them.
(Actually, I got back up on that horse multiple times with the same result - that's why I avoid it's stall these days LOL)
*snips*
As I said...the comment came from the big picture. I'm sorry if it offended. I think you may have seen my expression of sadness as pity?...or possibly just as condescending? and both of those are far from my intended sentiment.

It didn't come across so much as pity - or even from a sense of condesension - simply from that not-quite-thinking-it-through place that so many seem to have and a few have outright stated to me over the past several months. "If you aren't into Ds/Ms/Power Exchange of SOME Sort you're "just" vanilla, so how can you claim to be Involved in BDSM/Kink." (If I'd thought that you Intended for it to be pity or condecension, I woulda just sent ya a hate mail on the other side. LOL)

It may simply be that the entire area of power exchange is still a very - ehem - tough subject for me due to my personal past, and therefore *I potentially see boogymen where there are none. In the course of the 18 years out of 23 in BDSM that I attempted power exchange - through several relationships - I only ever had one that actually went Well, and it was the first of the lot. When it ended, it left a pleasant aftertaste, and I decided it was a good thing and I was going for a second helping. Unfortunately, every sucessive helping I had, the cook changed the recipe significantly, until finally I decided that it was a cake that I was going to avoid like the plauge for the rest of my life. It always looked really good sitting there on the table in front of me. The icing and decorations were appealing. But the underlying cake was grapefruit, or pistachio, or coconut when it was advertised as chocolate. When you don't like something you don't knowingly eat it - and it tends to really cause problems if someone tells you it's something you DO like so that you'll buy anyway.

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