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Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/18/2016 3:14:59 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		Obamass's unconstitutional power play bites the dust. Of course the curupt justices on the SCOTUS could be counted on to vote for it.

President Barack Obama's bid to save his plan to spare millions of immigrants in the country illegally from deportation and give them work permits ran into trouble on Monday at the U.S. Supreme Court in a case testing the limits of presidential power.

The court, with four conservative justices and four liberals, seemed divided along ideological lines during 90 minutes of arguments in the case brought by 26 states led by Texas that sued to block Obama's unilateral 2014 executive action that bypassed Congress.

Liberal justices voiced support for Obama's action. The conservatives sounded skeptical. A 4-4 decision would be a grim defeat for Obama because it would uphold lower court rulings that threw out his action last year and doom his quest to revamp a U.S. immigration policy he calls broken.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-immigration-idUSKCN0XF0B9

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 4/18/2016 3:16:52 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/18/2016 4:49:14 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

Obamass's unconstitutional power play bites the dust. Of course the curupt justices on the SCOTUS could be counted on to vote for it.

President Barack Obama's bid to save his plan to spare millions of immigrants in the country illegally from deportation and give them work permits ran into trouble on Monday at the U.S. Supreme Court in a case testing the limits of presidential power.

The court, with four conservative justices and four liberals, seemed divided along ideological lines during 90 minutes of arguments in the case brought by 26 states led by Texas that sued to block Obama's unilateral 2014 executive action that bypassed Congress.

Liberal justices voiced support for Obama's action. The conservatives sounded skeptical. A 4-4 decision would be a grim defeat for Obama because it would uphold lower court rulings that threw out his action last year and doom his quest to revamp a U.S. immigration policy he calls broken.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-immigration-idUSKCN0XF0B9


Thanks lovmuffin, I was going to look up what the lower courts had ruled. I thought it was thrown out, but wasn't sure. When it comes back tied let's see if the news touts it like they did the recent Union ruling. Any guesses if they will?

(in reply to lovmuffin)
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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/18/2016 7:19:54 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Insofar as I am aware, the lower courts ruling was hold. That was all.

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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/18/2016 7:35:39 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		This is neither a defeat or a victory, it was only oral arguments. The ruling won't come until June. there is still speculation that either Kennedy or Roberts will rule for the admin. because they could easily rule that Tex. was not in fact harmed and thus...has no standing.

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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/18/2016 7:38:24 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Most neutral observers said that texas supplied a fairly compelling answer on standing.
And Kennedy had a pretty biting retort on Virelli's representations on standing. I expect this one gets tossed by a 4-4.

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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/19/2016 1:39:51 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Most neutral observers said that texas supplied a fairly compelling answer on standing.
And Kennedy had a pretty biting retort on Virelli's representations on standing. I expect this one gets tossed by a 4-4.

Of course the neutral observers would be you and your sock drawer.

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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/19/2016 10:45:26 AM   
CreativeDominant


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Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Most neutral observers said that texas supplied a fairly compelling answer on standing.
And Kennedy had a pretty biting retort on Virelli's representations on standing. I expect this one gets tossed by a 4-4.

Of course the neutral observers would be you and your sock drawer.

You tell him, Gunny

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/19/2016 11:37:06 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Most neutral observers said that texas supplied a fairly compelling answer on standing.
And Kennedy had a pretty biting retort on Virelli's representations on standing. I expect this one gets tossed by a 4-4.

Of course the neutral observers would be you and your sock drawer.

You tell him, Gunny

I made corporal once for 4 days.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/19/2016 1:49:01 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Most neutral observers said that texas supplied a fairly compelling answer on standing.
And Kennedy had a pretty biting retort on Virelli's representations on standing. I expect this one gets tossed by a 4-4.

That Tex. as I understand it, would have to cover their driver's licenses is a very specious claim to harm. Plus the expression 'lawful presence' problematic or not...could easily be dumped thereby dumping with it the idea that this was a new immigration status effectively declared by the executive branch through EO.

I still say Kennedy is the wild card and could go either way and on both 'standing' and 'lawful presence.' As usual, Thomas had nothing to say at all.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/19/2016 1:51:00 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
ORIGINAL: thompsonx
ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Most neutral observers said that texas supplied a fairly compelling answer on standing.
And Kennedy had a pretty biting retort on Virelli's representations on standing. I expect this one gets tossed by a 4-4.

Of course the neutral observers would be you and your sock drawer.

You tell him, Gunny

I made corporal once for 4 days.


Why so long ? One day would have too much for me. That's why I went into the navy. My ole'man told me, it's got to be the navy, you take your food and your bed with you. And this from a man who never sewed a crow on his uniform before I got out.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/19/2016 5:08:10 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

Obamass's unconstitutional power play bites the dust. Of course the curupt justices on the SCOTUS could be counted on to vote for it.

President Barack Obama's bid to save his plan to spare millions of immigrants in the country illegally from deportation and give them work permits ran into trouble on Monday at the U.S. Supreme Court in a case testing the limits of presidential power.

The court, with four conservative justices and four liberals, seemed divided along ideological lines during 90 minutes of arguments in the case brought by 26 states led by Texas that sued to block Obama's unilateral 2014 executive action that bypassed Congress.

Liberal justices voiced support for Obama's action. The conservatives sounded skeptical. A 4-4 decision would be a grim defeat for Obama because it would uphold lower court rulings that threw out his action last year and doom his quest to revamp a U.S. immigration policy he calls broken.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-immigration-idUSKCN0XF0B9


Thanks lovmuffin, I was going to look up what the lower courts had ruled. I thought it was thrown out, but wasn't sure. When it comes back tied let's see if the news touts it like they did the recent Union ruling. Any guesses if they will?


Yeah they squashed the plan, fifth circuit I think, If the lower court ruling wasn't to stand on this it would be a whole lot more damage than the Union ruling is. And yeah, one always has to wonder how the press might play it. There could be a lot of squabbling and nit picking.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to Nnanji)
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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/19/2016 5:35:38 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		It seems to me the President had no choice but to act… I certainly would have. Congress has had years to come up with a plan but couldn’t get it done. What was the alternative… families were being ripped apart.

Whose fault was it? The children are American citizens… the parents not. Are we to kick Americans out of the country because of the mistakes of their parents. Is there no blame for the Republican backed businesses that hired illegal’s and made crossing the border attractive for good people just wanted to support their families?

Even now the Congress could pass bills to override the President’s actions… but no…politics are more important to them than children… American children at that. Congress should be ashamed.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/19/2016 5:36:04 PM >

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to lovmuffin)
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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/19/2016 7:00:43 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


I made corporal once for 4 days.


Why so long ? One day would have too much for me. That's why I went into the navy. My ole'man told me, it's got to be the navy, you take your food and your bed with you. And this from a man who never sewed a crow on his uniform before I got out.

There was a weekend in that 4 days.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/19/2016 8:10:51 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It seems to me the President had no choice but to act… I certainly would have. Congress has had years to come up with a plan but couldn’t get it done. What was the alternative… families were being ripped apart.

Whose fault was it? The children are American citizens… the parents not. Are we to kick Americans out of the country because of the mistakes of their parents. Is there no blame for the Republican backed businesses that hired illegal’s and made crossing the border attractive for good people just wanted to support their families?

Even now the Congress could pass bills to override the President’s actions… but no…politics are more important to them than children… American children at that. Congress should be ashamed.

Butch


He did have a choice. What he did was unilaterally make up his own policy by executive order thus going against the law. Sure it's congresses fault that nothing has been accomplished but there's a stipulated process in the framework of the Constitution for making King Obama's executive decree into law. And absolutely businesses share some blame. The laws should be enforced all the way around.

I do get it. There are many productive adult citizens, college graduates, teen-agers, and grade school kids who were born of illegal parents and could potentially be deported or kids sent home along with them. Many of these young people are not even bilingual. And we can supposedly fix it all by what amounts to yet another amnesty for a few million illegals because "oh the children those meany Republicans ect ect. What about the next few million ? Where do you draw the line ? How would you even draw that line at this point ? The laws have gone unenforced for so long, people are going to be hurt as a result. Democrat's are just as much to blame for the whole mess too.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/20/2016 8:18:39 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You draw the line by working out a compromise... and until you do it is the humane thing the President has done. The Congress could override the President tomorrow if they would pass legislation... but politicians want to use this issue in the Presidential campaign.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/20/2016 8:59:09 AM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You draw the line by working out a compromise... and until you do it is the humane thing the President has done. The Congress could override the President tomorrow if they would pass legislation... but politicians want to use this issue in the Presidential campaign.

Butch


Yes it's a stalemate but still, Obama does not have the authority.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/20/2016 9:14:21 AM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It seems to me the President had no choice but to act… I certainly would have. Congress has had years to come up with a plan but couldn’t get it done. What was the alternative… families were being ripped apart.

Whose fault was it? The children are American citizens… the parents not. Are we to kick Americans out of the country because of the mistakes of their parents. Is there no blame for the Republican backed businesses that hired illegal’s and made crossing the border attractive for good people just wanted to support their families?

Even now the Congress could pass bills to override the President’s actions… but no…politics are more important to them than children… American children at that. Congress should be ashamed.

Butch

If I'd been born poor in Mexico I hope I had the balls to come here and make a better life. That said, every job taken takes a job from an American. Don't tell me they are jobs Americans won't do because then I'd have to say the welfare system needs to work better. It not only jobs being taken but culture. If I wanted to live in that culture I could. We take the fathers and mothers of families and throw them in jail all the time. I don't have a problem sending father's and mothers back to their country. They broke the law. It's their responsibility to deal with the consequences, not mine. Just like it would be a bank robber's responsibility to arrange for family while he's doing time. I have no desire to catch and buss 12 million people out. I think if we catch and punish a few hundred employers eventually the jobs will dry up and they'll go home. Just like they did when Obama extended the last recession for so long.

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RE: Obama's Immigration Plan Is Obumer - 4/20/2016 9:17:58 AM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You draw the line by working out a compromise... and until you do it is the humane thing the President has done. The Congress could override the President tomorrow if they would pass legislation... but politicians want to use this issue in the Presidential campaign.

Butch

The problem with a compromise is that this is a situation where both republicans and democrats are in the pockets of business. The compromise would only be individual citizens fail, politicians line their pockets and business prospers on the backs of poor people. And, I'm leaving out the disingenuous democrats trolling for power by adopting a policy in order to garner future votes on the backs of their poorest constituents.

(in reply to kdsub)
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