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Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:21:47 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		in light of the improbability of experiencing such things firsthand, i am left with reading about the connection between pain and pleasure.

here is my question:

How does pain promote pleasure in some individuals?

please be as informative as possible as this will be the only way i will be able to understand the associatives between the two.


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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:26:46 PM   
thetammyjo


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Status: offline 		I'm going to recommend the first book on the subject that specifically was written by "one of us".

"Urban Aboriginals" by Geoff Mains -- he was a scientist and a leatherman who tried to figure out questions like the one you asked.


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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:28:52 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		ideals get lost in books while personal remenisances are more productive.

besides that, you can't as a book questions.


< Message edited by michaelGA2 -- 7/19/2006 12:29:37 PM >

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:31:37 PM   
mp072004


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Status: offline 		Some people "convert" pain to pleasure. This usually only works for certain types of pain. Basically, a sensation that most people would describe as painful is perceived as pleasure. Ever hear the phrase "a slap that feels like a kiss"? That's it, literally.

Others like the sensation of pain, but do not perceive it as pleasure. This is a slap that feels like a slap, and the person likes slaps.

Still other bottoms enjoy experiencing pain that they do not like or perceive as pleasure. This often has achievement or endurance components, and many use analogies derived from sports to describe this sort of bottoming.

People can want to experience pain for a variety of reasons that aren't about pain--usually, this is because they perceive pain as a necessary part of a larger scheme that appeals to them. Examples include punishment, ritual, and interrogation.

Monica






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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:33:46 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		so, in essence, some people enjoy the feel of pain and, in some instances, convert pain into pleasure?

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:41:42 PM   
SweetSarijane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

so, in essence, some people enjoy the feel of pain and, in some instances, convert pain into pleasure?


Yep...you got it. I do both. It depends on what is being used on me. Some is just pain, but pain I like (sometimes hate at the same time even) and a lot of it just feels pleasureable and good to me. It's pain, but it's feel good pain if that makes sense.

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:42:10 PM   
Bearlee


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From: South Central CO
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michael, Padraig has an interesting explanation of this phenomenon …  He says anybody can be ‘taught’ this within weeks (if I remember correctly).  He says it is as simple as alternating sexual pleasure with pain enough that the mind links the two and finally feels pain as sexual pleasure.
 
Keep in mind Pavlov’s dog; the ‘dinner bell’ and instant salivating?  Same/same I think.
 
Anyway…I’d like to learn it.  <sigh>
beverly

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:43:08 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


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Status: offline 		As I don't really consider myself a masochist, I can't really say how some people seem able to directly turn pain into pleasure. I imagine it's a rarer quality than most people are led to believe, when they enter the lifestyle. But what I have experienced is that an intense sensation, which might at first be experienced as pain, can be made bearable by the endorphins the brain releases as a protective measure.

(Adrenaline can also bring this on, in scenes that are fear-based, or even just emotionally edgy...)

Eventually, flooded with enough endorphins, one feels pleasure. Since sexual arousal seems also to be an endorphin rush I would say the brain probably just cross-references, and sometimes that pain is experienced as pleasure, sometimes sexual pleasure, sometimes a more diffuse, general pleasure.

Sometimes very intense pain causes so much chemical flooding that one may experience a type of body-disengagement, sometimes referred to as flying. I have only experienced this twice, maybe three times, and it can be a very spiritual type of pleasure. I believe that this is the type of pleasure people into pain rituals - such as hanging from flesh-hooks - seek. It can be accompanied by visions, and apparently a hyper-clarity of thought, at times.

I'm sure many of the heavier pain enthusiasts can answer better, but this is my understanding of the process, at this point.

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:46:37 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		do these thing usually occur in tandem with eachother or are they completely seperate entities?

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:48:14 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

do these thing usually occur in tandem with eachother or are they completely seperate entities?


Sorry Michael, not sure what "things" you are referring to. Can you be more specific?

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:52:12 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		the source of my inquiry: pain & pleasure

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:57:34 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

the source of my inquiry: pain & pleasure


I would say they sometimes do. Although, for me, if I am experiencing pleasure, then painful stimuli added to that often becomes a distractant, and not an amplifier. It depends on the stimuli. And if it's not a distractant it isn't generally perceived as pain, except perhaps intellectually.

Sometimes it's waves...they overlap, and alternate.

Tough questions, Michael. Feeling very thoughtful today?

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:58:38 PM   
Bearlee


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Status: offline 		Yes, I would say 'flying' is a result of either pain OR pleasure...or both.

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 12:59:42 PM   
sleazybutterfly


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Status: offline 		I think so much of it is in the mind.  Sometimes something might hurt..another time.. it can take you over the brink with pleasure.
 
For instance, the belt.  The first time it was used on me, I hated it.  I never thought I would want it again.  Then a few weeks ago, I found myself asking for it, begging for it.  I could not be hard enough, or hurt enough.
 
I think that the pain/pleasure is connected for me.  I need a mixture, but before I know it they become one and I can't tell what I am feeling anymore.  It takes me away, I can disconnect, cry, orgasm, and so much more.
 
I know there are chemicals and such... many explanations..but on a personal note, there isn't a "right" or "wrong" answer.  I just know that right now after writing about it..dang-it.. I really miss it.
 
~Andrea (Flutterbi)

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 1:00:18 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		i'm extremely inquisitive today and, since i have no other avenue to explore these experiences, i am left with questions.

this is all very helpful and i hope i can understand it.


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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 1:00:27 PM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

ideals get lost in books while personal remenisances are more productive.

besides that, you can't as a book questions.



It is really too bad that you reject the book I recommend like this.

It is one of the true classics of literature about BDSM or SM as it was commonly called in Mains day. His book was an amazing breakthrough, something he felt was very important to write because it explained the experiences in ways that non-masochists could start to understand.

It also offered affirmation for those masochists who worried they were sick by saying "no, there is a biological reason you feel this transfer" and also offered the idea that one could develop this transference or not, it wasn't a given, it was explained.

Sadly Mr. Mains is no longer with us. I'm sure if he was, michaelGA2, he would have been happy to answer your questions. That is the type of man I've heard that he was from several folks who knew him.

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 1:15:49 PM   
KennelDeSade2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2
How does pain promote pleasure in some individuals?


I am given to understant that we have ten times more pain receptors than pleasure.  Given that survival depends on avoiding things that hurt, it seems reasonable to me.  What I do know is that it is possible to use different types of repetitive stimulation to convince the pain nerves to switch sides so they report the sensations as no longer pain.  Hard to call it pleasure exactly, but it doesn't really "hurt" any more. 


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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 1:17:18 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2
this is all very helpful and i hope i can understand it.



I have no doubt you can. You're a very bright person.

I am always amazed at what kinds of stimuli I can take, and how it's perceived by body. It's never consistent either. As Andrea pointed out, you can love or hate something, dependant on many factors, such as emotional state, hormones, body position, who your partner is...

Bondage, interestingly enough, allows me to accept more pain. I think when I am not bound, my subconscious thinks I should be trying to get away, which is a realistic response, and so I struggle against it.

When I'm bound, well, there is no point in fighting, so obviously my mind is forced to look for other ways to deal with the sensation.

Subspace, can be a type of bondage, in this case. I do take more pain when I am emotionally connected to my partner, and feel that compulsion to please, and obey.

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 1:18:17 PM   
michaelGA2


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Status: offline 		and this is achieved, how?

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RE: Pain & Pleasure - 7/19/2006 1:30:35 PM   
gypsyssoul


Posts: 127
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From: Balti., Maryland, living in Summerville SC
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quote:

i'm extremely inquisitive today and, since i have no other avenue to explore these experiences, i am left with questions.
i could be wrong ... and often am .. which is why i try to keep
my answers to opinions ... but something came back to me..
awhile ago ..  on here while looking into piercing ...
 i read an article  about  how the mind can take
pain and make it pleasure because .. it uses the same
sensors ... the mind see's both pain and pleasure as the same thing
and sends out .. little healing chemicals ..
 
which is why so many after having found that
with the pain they find pleasure
... the reason so many crave tattoo's and or piercings ...
they crave them ... because you get addicted to the
chemicals .. that are release endorphines i think they called them ...
 
i know i can take pain .. that i can block the pain ...
i can stub my toe and not cry but when it comes to the emotional
 side of me .. i cry way to much ...
 
hope this helps
and i don't think its wrong to ask so many questions ..
how else does one learn ..
~~bright blessings


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